CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #56 *ARREST*

[pcrum12]

I don't think anyone minds poking holes in the prosecution's case. It's only when the facts are twisted or theories are presented with no basis in fact that posters take issue. ie: Baby K was left in the truck for two hours, KK planted blood all over the townhome, KK hired a hitman... There is no evidence of any of those things.

Many here appreciate Websleuths because unlike Facebook or other platforms, it is fact-based and victim-friendly. It derails the thread and creates more work for the mods when posters don't follow the rules. MOO

#JusticeforKelsey

I’ve never stated any of those thing but I have received the snide remarks lol. I appreciate websleuths for it allows me to participate in my favorite hobby true crime. I’m honestly not much of a sleuther lol.

 

[PommyMommy]

I’ve never stated any of those thing but I have received the snide remarks lol. I appreciate websleuths for it allows me to participate in my favorite hobby true crime. I’m honestly not much of a sleuther lol.

Oh no, I apologize if you thought I was implying that you said anything like that! No, no, no, that's not what I meant at all.

If you feel someone is being rude, just use that good 'ol report button. MOO

 

[katydid23]

I’ve never stated any of those thing but I have received the snide remarks lol. I appreciate websleuths for it allows me to participate in my favorite hobby true crime. I’m honestly not much of a sleuther lol.

I like to try and figure out what the defense will say, as well.

What do you think they will use as their defense here?

I am pretty sure they will try and bash KK, and call her a liar, but it will take more than that.

They will also go after the cell phone experts too, as happened in the MCstay Family trial.

What else do they have, any ideas?

 

[Hatfield]

It would be hard for them to throw out ALL of her testimony because the actual evidence supports some of her most important statements.

For example, LE discovered her identity by looking at all of the communication between her cell and PF's cell. And they also tracked KB's cell and saw that it traveled up to Idaho, same time that KK traveled there too.

So when the jury sees that she took the victim's cell on that road trip, and sent some of the texts from the victim's phone, then it becomes clear that she was involved in the crime to some degree.

That makes it hard to throw out ALL of her testimony because she is in fact a player in the case.

I can't assume she is lying about everything, when there is evidence to support much of what she has said. And much of what she has said is very detrimental to her. JMO

Good point that the jury may be forced to debate on some of the things she will state on the stand because she is definitely a key player in this case. That is a good point but I seem to recall (maybe from crime documentaries involving trials) that once it has been proven to a jury that a witness has lied to them directly, lied to police, etc. they tend to dismiss much else of what that witness had to say because it is not reliable and they dont always have enough other supporting testimony to really know one way or the other.

But it is a good point that in this particular case the jury may be forced to pick and choose which things she is saying has definite truth and which things maybe not so much.

If there is a lot of debate amongst the jurors with that sort of thing and they cannot unanimously decide which thing is true and which isnt, then IMO they will be forced to ignore certain things because they wont be able to come to a concensus on certain parts of her testimony. It becomes much easier for a jury to ignore certain statement altogether from a witness they cannot trust.

Its going to be really interesting during this trial and I am already hoping now that we can hear from some of the jurors after the verdict. It will be fascinating if we get to hear how some of the deliberations went during juror deliberations and which things they felt swayed them the most.

Would love to be a fly on the wall during jury deliberations.

I keep expecting this case to be one heck of a battle in the courtroom. Maybe even with some shouting objections and maybe even a spectator outburst or two. It has all the signs of a trial with a lot of fireworks and I plan to follow it as close as possible. So long as KB gets justice in the end, I will be happy.

 

[GoJacks]

Anyone know if trial is still supposed to start Oct. 28th? Or has it been pushed back? I haven't seen anything but also haven't been around much lately.

Honestly interested in going if they aren't going to allow it streamed again....

 

[katydid23]

What has KK out and out lied about, that is provable?

Sincere question.

I know that she initially lied to the FBI, when they first came calling. But I think that is understandable. Many people react by denying everything at first.

But I mean once she began talking, and made that Plea Deal, what did she say that is a provable out and out lie?

I am not saying there isn't anything. I am just asking what others think might fit into that category.

 

[katydid23]

Anyone know if trial is still supposed to start Oct. 28th? Or has it been pushed back? I haven't seen anything but also haven't been around much lately.

Honestly interested in going if they aren't going to allow it streamed again....

As far as I know, it is still scheduled like that. But I wouldn't be surprised if the defense asks for a delay.

 

[GordianKnot]

Anyone know if trial is still supposed to start Oct. 28th? Or has it been pushed back? I haven't seen anything but also haven't been around much lately.

Honestly interested in going if they aren't going to allow it streamed again....

Hi, GoJacks, great to see you posting here again!

AFAIK, the trial is still slated to start on Oct. 28th...hasn't been pushed back.

Yet.

Fingers crossed!

*ETA: It would sure be great to have somebody here attending in person to give us a firsthand account of what happens in the courtroom!

 

[GordianKnot]

What has KK out and out lied about, that is provable?

Sincere question.

I know that she initially lied to the FBI, when they first came calling. But I think that is understandable. Many people react by denying everything at first.

But I mean once she began talking, and made that Plea Deal, what did she say that is a provable out and out lie?

I am not saying there isn't anything. I am just asking what others think might fit into that category.

Since the deal, I don't think there have been any proven lies by KK regarding the substantive facts/evidence related to the case.

If there were, her sweetie beauty of a deal would have been declared null and void.

Where I think it can safely be argued KK has been less than truthful, which is to say, completely disingenuous, is in matters where she ascribes motives to her own actions/inactions in an attempt to make herself sound like less of a completely vile, loathsome snake.

But what KK's internal processes are, e.g., her thoughts, feelings, etc. can't be proven or disproven, because they're intangibles.

Hopefully, DA May won't even give her the opportunity to talk about what she was thinking and feeling, because really, who cares?

JMO.

 

[Hatfield]

What has KK out and out lied about, that is provable?

Sincere question.

I know that she initially lied to the FBI, when they first came calling. But I think that is understandable. Many people react by denying everything at first.

But I mean once she began talking, and made that Plea Deal, what did she say that is a provable out and out lie?

I am not saying there isn't anything. I am just asking what others think might fit into that category.

JMO
When I followed her testimony during her last courtroom appearance involving her own plea deal, the thing I remember the most was how my reaction was saying "BS" a lot to myself as she portrayed herself in the absolute least culpable way while making PF look like everything was all on him.

But it will be up to the Defense to show the jury why she cannot be trusted on some of the things she may and will say. So it all depends on how well the Defense can demonstrate that she is not to be trusted. They may or may not be successful in doing that but I am betting they will surely try and one huge piece of ammunition they have is the fact that PF knows exactly what she did and did not do. So PF will be able to help his own Defense laywers in trying to point out any lies or half-truths she may tell the jury.

I have a feeling the Defense strategy will be to primarily try to show the jury they cannot trust her testimony and I think they will have some success at that because they have PF who knows the real truth. Im not sure whether the defense will go so far as to try to blame things on her but rather show that she had a much more active role than she is letting on with the planning, the ultimate execution of the plan, and the cleanup after the plan was carried out. That alone will probably not be nearly enough to save PF because like others have said there is other evidence that is not KK that will also show PF's involvement. So the Defense better have more than just showing KK cannot be trusted.

All JMO of course

 

[MassGuy]

Anyone know if trial is still supposed to start Oct. 28th? Or has it been pushed back? I haven't seen anything but also haven't been around much lately.

Honestly interested in going if they aren't going to allow it streamed again....

October 18th is going to be a huge day, as there’s a pre-trial hearing on that date.

That’s when we’ll know if everything is on track.

 

[GordianKnot]

October 18th is going to be a huge day, as there’s a pre-trial hearing on that date.

That’s when we’ll know if everything is on track.

That's going to be the last opportunity for either side to apply the brakes, methinks.

If there aren't any requests for delay at that hearing, we're definitely looking at jury selection starting on the 28th.

If DA May really is ready to rock 'n roll now, that tells me he fully anticipated all of the defense motions in this case.

Seems like the DA has all his ducks lined up in a row.
With PF's face superimposed on each of them.
Something tells me Dan May's a crack shot at playing, "Shoot the Duck."

PF is one dead duck.

Figuratively speaking, anyway.

JMO.

 

[MemPat]

Google Chris Watts and see his latest "confession" letter.

 

[Gigi3]

If PF starts trying to correct any lies or half truths KK tells during testimony, wouldn’t he be implicating himself in the process? Serious question.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Google Chris Watts and see his latest "confession" letter.

Omg he’s publishing a book?
Think I’m going to be sick.

 

[pcrum12]

I like to try and figure out what the defense will say, as well.

What do you think they will use as their defense here?

I am pretty sure they will try and bash KK, and call her a liar, but it will take more than that.

They will also go after the cell phone experts too, as happened in the MCstay Family trial.

What else do they have, any ideas?

I see the same things. KK's lies, her attempts on KB, the cell phone data is key to a conviction but I hope they have BLOOD EVIDENCE and his DNA. Hopefully the tooth was KB's. They will try to put the body in KK's car not in the fire at the Ranch. She had the purse, she had the phone, they'll say she had the body. Not sure it will go far but I think they will try.

 

[MassGuy]

I see the same things. KK's lies, her attempts on KB, the cell phone data is key to a conviction but I hope they have BLOOD EVIDENCE and his DNA. Hopefully the tooth was KB's. They will try to put the body in KK's car not in the fire at the Ranch. She had the purse, she had the phone, they'll say she had the body. Not sure it will go far but I think they will try.

They have to go further though. They have to completely sever PF from any involvement in this.

That’s the issue that’s going to prove next to impossible, as we know he told numerous lies.

They have to explain away those lies, any cell phone contact between him and KK, the evidence that shows he had Kelsey’s phone, and any evidence found at the burn and body storage sites.

Because KK couldn’t have killed Kelsey, and secretly burned evidence in his backyard.

The hardest part is going to be shifting the timeline, which they will have to do in order to make KK the killer.

Unless they feel they can overcome cell phone evidence, witness statements, and any footage of KK exchanging vehicles with her friend.

 

[Gigi3]

Omg he’s publishing a book?
Think I’m going to be sick.

Dear god, he is a MONSTER!! And some thought he was this quiet little mouse with no history of violence. After you read some of Chris’s confession, I can totally see PF beating poor Kelsey to death with a baseball bat! Hell, PF has waaay more violent outbursts that we are aware of, so I can only imagine what we don’t know yet.
A jury has got to find this b*****d guilty, and give the Berreths the justice they deserve! JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I like to try and figure out what the defense will say, as well.

What do you think they will use as their defense here?

I am pretty sure they will try and bash KK, and call her a liar, but it will take more than that.

They will also go after the cell phone experts too, as happened in the MCstay Family trial.

What else do they have, any ideas?

The defense will bring up no body, no cause or time of death. They will try and suggest that 'IF' Kelsey was murdered it was after KK came to town.

I feel confident that DA May will be able to connect the dots with the totality of evidence (much more to come out at trial imo) and PF will be spending the rest of his Thanksgivings as a guest of the State of Colorado Department of Corrections!

#JUSTICEFORKELSEY

 

[girlhasnoname]

Since the deal, I don't think there have been any proven lies by KK regarding the substantive facts/evidence related to the case.

If there were, her sweetie beauty of a deal would have been declared null and void.

Where I think it can safely be argued KK has been less than truthful, which is to say, completely disingenuous, is in matters where she ascribes motives to her own actions/inactions in an attempt to make herself sound like less of a completely vile, loathsome snake.

But what KK's internal processes are, e.g., her thoughts, feelings, etc. can't be proven or disproven, because they're intangibles.

Hopefully, DA May won't even give her the opportunity to talk about what she was thinking and feeling, because really, who cares?

JMO.

Can you even imagine the cross by PF's defense?

Does it make me a horrible person that I take comfort in her uncomfortableness?