Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

[RachB65]

Is there a mental defense they could use to try to excuse/explain his cover-up behavior after the crime? Something like PTSD caused by seeing his girls killed?

I believe a verified psychologist on here stated that symptoms of PTSD usually do not manifest right away; his actions afterward,killing Shanann, hiding the bodies, lying to friends, media and police are also not an immediate display of PTSD after the tragedy of allegedly seeing your wife kill your daughters

 

[Marli61]

In CO they use what's called the "heat of passion" mitigator. I think it's the same as an extreme emotional disturbance.

I hadn't thought about that as being a reason for filing a motion under seal but yes. That could definitely be a reason. Because statements he made or will make to experts or to his lawyers or prison staff could go to that too. And that's more plausible than winning an insanity defense.

I'm not a lawyer but I can see how it would be difficult to win an insanity defense... but yes.. there's that pesky "heat of passion" defense & that scares me.
P.S. I missed all of you guys...even tho I saw some of you over in the Closs thread! 2 threads now.. yikes.. I will never get anything done.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree, in part.

I think it was set up originally to the visitor logs as to interviewing for a mental situation which would help the defense. The defense did not want the prosecution to know who was visiting him. Because their credentials may be obvious to the prosecution as to their strategy.

And therefore HIPAA laws are now going in so the prosecution cannot see the results on that also. Both of them, I think were done to protect what the defense is going for in their strategy.

I agree with Gitana, very impressive defense attorneys.

I'm not sure that interviewing for a mental health situation would be helpful to the defense. If he was evaluated for certain mental health disorders, or anything in his history implied he has something like Antisocial Personality Disorder, than it would make it appear more likely that he was capable of committing a crime like this. Jmo

 

[molly1255]

I'm not sure that interviewing for a mental health situation would be helpful to the defense. If he was evaluated for certain mental health disorders, or anything in his history implied he has something like Antisocial Personality Disorder, than it would make it appear more likely that he was capable of committing a crime like this. Jmo

I agree. If he has a past history of behavior indicative of Antisocial Personality Disorder, that will be a disaster for him.

It has only been "proven" there was one affair, but there has been rumors of multiple affairs/serial cheating. If these rumors are true, there is a Cluster B issue, and my thoughts have always been ASPD, and that is because of the way he handled himself post murder (s).

I also hope the prosecution digs very deeply into his past for signs of this, and that they specifically dig into the hasty move to Colorado. If he is ASPD, he may have manipulated the move to Colorado to get SW to sell her NC home, thinking the sale of the home would bring a huge profit. This is exactly the kind of manipulation ASPD's are capable of doing to their victims, and their victims do not even realize what's really happening.

The house did not bring a profit, and she moved before she even sold it. If he is ASPD, in his mind, that would have been all her fault, too. They absolutely love to blame their victims, which he has done in his "confession". I expect more "blame" to come as this case progresses.

All JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree. If he has a past history of behavior indicative of Antisocial Personality Disorder, that will be a disaster for him.

It has only been "proven" there was one affair, but there has been rumors of multiple affairs/serial cheating. If these rumors are true, there is a Cluster B issue, and my thoughts have always been ASPD, and that is because of the way he handled himself post murder (s).

I also hope the prosecution digs very deeply into his past for signs of this, and that they specifically dig into the hasty move to Colorado. If he is ASPD, he may have manipulated the move to Colorado to get SW to sell her NC home, thinking the sale of the home would bring a huge profit. This is exactly the kind of manipulation ASPD's are capable of doing to their victims, and their victims do not even realize what's really happening.

The house did not bring a profit, and she moved before she even sold it. If he is ASPD, in his mind, that would have been all her fault, too. They absolutely love to blame their victims, which he has done in his "confession". I expect more "blame" to come as this case progresses.

All JMO.

So many posters have indicated behavior that is characteristic of psychopathic or sociopathic behavior. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they find this to be the case. I would think they have had plenty of time to complete an evaluation by now. Or even uncovered something from his past records. Jmo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Very good point. I'm also leaning toward psychological visits and perhaps a diagnosis. JMO, since the defense wants to protect this info, I wonder if there is a diagnosis that will not be helpful to CW in his defense?

Exactly! Moo

 

[Amandaaa]

I think at this point all the defense is doing is reacting to the prosecution's filings. I'm baffled why the prosecution thinks the coroner is incapable of arguing for the sealing of the autopsy reports without the prosecution's help. I'd like to hear the thoughts of the VI attorneys.

Respectfully, I don’t think that’s what the defense is doing at all - and it’s not a matter of the coroner being “incapable”.

The standard for sealing requires the custodian (the coroner) to demonstrate why sealing is appropriate. In his motion, the coroner simply deferred to the DA’s rationale - a dangerous move, IMO - and not likely to convince the court. The DA intervened to make his own argument for himself.

 

[Amandaaa]

I find it intriguing that the defense wants the autopsy reports out there. Perhaps @Amandaaa, @gitana1 , would care to comment on whether this is strategy, boilerplate, or (because the defense has the autopsy reports) something useful to the defense.

eta to at @Mrspratcher

I fully realize I’m in the minority here - but I think there might just be something in those reports that is useful to the defense.

Ultimately, it’s anyones guess - and we will just have to wait and see...

 

[Amandaaa]

So, what does everyone think about the sealing of CW health records? I'm thinking HIV positive/Aids? Just a thought.

I don’t think that’s likely... it could be any number of things... but I would guess it’s something critical to the defense.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don’t think that’s likely... it could be any number of things... but I would guess it’s something critical to the defense.

Misleading the prosecution, and a potential jury pool, and putting out a subterfuge in my opinion is critical to the defense. So I would agree with that.

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully, I don’t think that’s what the defense is doing at all - and it’s not a matter of the coroner being “incapable”.

The standard for sealing requires the custodian (the coroner) to demonstrate why sealing is appropriate. In his motion, the coroner simply deferred to the DA’s rationale - a dangerous move, IMO - and not likely to convince the court. The DA intervened to make his own argument for himself.

Thanks for the clarification. My bafflement comes from the fact the prosecutor filed for the sealing in the wrong court and that it was supposed to be the coroner making the request in the first place. It is very confusing.

 

[Amandaaa]

Thanks for the clarification. My bafflement comes from the fact the prosecutor filed for the sealing in the wrong court and that it was supposed to be the coroner making the request in the first place. It is very confusing.

Yes - it is definitely confusing. It’s interesting to see it play out pretty much as I expected, from the filing of the prosecution’s initial motion to seal. It was just so odd - both the filing itself and the stated rationale for sealing... looks like we don’t have to wait too long for the hearing to take place, at least!

 

[MyBelle]

Yes - it is definitely confusing. It’s interesting to see it play out pretty much as I expected, from the filing of the prosecution’s initial motion to seal. It was just so odd - both the filing itself and the stated rationale for sealing... looks like we don’t have to wait too long for the hearing to take place, at least!

I think the Judge might also find it odd and the news media will win.

 

[Amandaaa]

I think the Judge might also find it odd and the news media will win.

Oh, I would be surprised if they were sealed. I don’t think this meets the threshold and the entire country is watching...

 

[Applecross]

I agree. If he has a past history of behavior indicative of Antisocial Personality Disorder, that will be a disaster for him.

It has only been "proven" there was one affair, but there has been rumors of multiple affairs/serial cheating. If these rumors are true, there is a Cluster B issue, and my thoughts have always been ASPD, and that is because of the way he handled himself post murder (s).

I also hope the prosecution digs very deeply into his past for signs of this, and that they specifically dig into the hasty move to Colorado. If he is ASPD, he may have manipulated the move to Colorado to get SW to sell her NC home, thinking the sale of the home would bring a huge profit. This is exactly the kind of manipulation ASPD's are capable of doing to their victims, and their victims do not even realize what's really happening.

The house did not bring a profit, and she moved before she even sold it. If he is ASPD, in his mind, that would have been all her fault, too. They absolutely love to blame their victims, which he has done in his "confession". I expect more "blame" to come as this case progresses.

All JMO.

As far as we know he has no history of criminality. A teacher, roommate and a couple of people who were at school with him made no mention of any type of ASPD behaviour. He is described as quiet, introverted, respectful and hard working - but somewhat withdrawn. The VI trinket78 said he had never been in trouble in the past.

His personality seems much more indicative of someone on the Autistic Spectrum - the monotone voice and introverted behaviour. He is described as shy and withdrawn by those that know/knew him. His former teacher said he had a photographic memory, and knew everything there was to know about NASCAR. In videos he comes across as a bit awkward and not particularly socially adept.

But until the murders he seemed (on the surface anyway) to be someone who very much ‘lived by the rules’ - held down a job, got a mortgage, got married had children. Of course we now know there was at least one AP and financial problems and no doubt more secrets will be revealed. But I definitely don’t get a ASPD vibe from him, and going from the pre confession interviews - he’s not even good at lying or manipulation. He didn’t convince anyone of his innocence, and I think even he knew that!

 

[Johnny1181]

I fully realize I’m in the minority here - but I think there might just be something in those reports that is useful to the defense.

Ultimately, it’s anyones guess - and we will just have to wait and see...

I may be missing something but I have not seen any filings that show the defense wants the results out.
From this pleading they seem to be arguing they leave it up to the court because CW's right to affair trial has been so compromised by the prosecution it doesn't matter. Perhaps a set up to move the venue or for appeals? I don't know, just brainstorming. jmo

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D 039 Notice(1).pdf

 

[NuttMegg]

Thanks to all of you who post and/or explain the legal aspects.

 

[MyBelle]

I may be missing something but I have not seen any filings that show the defense wants the results out.
From this pleading they seem to be arguing they leave it up to the court because CW's right to affair trial has been so compromised by the prosecution it doesn't matter. Perhaps a set up to move the venue or for appeals? I don't know, just brainstorming. jmo

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D 039 Notice(1).pdf

iirc, the "sealing" issue moved to civil court--and a different judge--after that was filed.

 

[Johnny1181]

iirc, the "sealing" issue moved to civil court--and a different judge--after that was filed.

I understand. But imo this filing gives insight to the defense strategy and position.

 

[Amandaaa]

I may be missing something but I have not seen any filings that show the defense wants the results out.
From this pleading they seem to be arguing they leave it up to the court because CW's right to affair trial has been so compromised by the prosecution it doesn't matter. Perhaps a set up to move the venue or for appeals? I don't know, just brainstorming. jmo

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/D 039 Notice(1).pdf

If they truly didn’t want them to come out, they would have responded quite differently - or not responded at all.