GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[Jessthinkin]

The State of Colorado vs Chris Watts

This video is pretty interesting. Looks like he is dragging SW’s body.

Shorter slowed down version of CW.
Light shining on face from garage lights means he was walking backwards, looking like he is stuggling with dragging something.
*Better viewed full size screen*

Ughhh... that's exactly what it looks like... :/

 

[Jessthinkin]

Which one was It? Number 5? I don't remember him crying at all.

I'd have to go back and look to see which actual video it is. It was shortly after CW confessed, his father is still there on one side of the table rubbing CW's back (blech...) and one or both of the detectives are on the other side of the table...

 

[Love Never Fails]

I just watched the first video of LE meeting NUA at SW home for first time. I suppose many of you knew this right away and I missed it, but NUA spoke of how SW was distressed on the trip all weekend and wouldn’t eat and they had to force her since she was pregnant. I believe she had that sixth sense that something bad was about to happen. She must have been so sad and miserable.

 

[tmar]

I have never see a whole entire family like his. Not one of the 4, Cindy, Ronnie, Jamie, Chris, had absolutely any empathy at all.

We must add, the new member, NK to this family.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yes, Nick found it under a few pillows on the couch. Chris tried the code but it didn't work. Nichole was on the phone with Addy ( I think) and she said to try the babies due date and that worked.

Babies Niko's due date. Just so sad.
She lived for her husband,and family to her last breath.

 

[MsBetsy]

They still really need Nk's text though. So I think they have more work to do.
It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

She turned over her phone in August. Where does it say they did not retrieve the text messages? She was not a suspect in August and after the sentencing the DA said the case was closed and that the only person responsible for killing his family is Chris Watts. How much more over can it be?

 

[JEM1975]

Can I help try to shed a little light on the HOA assessment situation? And hopefully we can all agree it is not a big deal or cause for alarm?

As @BabyButterfly mentions above, there is a difference between HOA dues and HOA assessments. Dues are paid each month by all homeowners and assessments are doled out in the case of violations / infractions to those individual homeowners by HOAs or their management company in order to get homeowners to comply.

As others have mentioned, the Watts may have been not paying the assessments out of protest, they may not have been aware of the perceived infraction, and they may not have been opening the letters in the mail regarding the assessments because they thought it was junk mailand become inadvertently delinquent. There are so many possible reasons for an HOA fine / assessment that is impossble to guess.

In the Disovery PDF you can see the summons to SW and CW from their HOA and a portion of their HOA governing docs in the pages that follow starting on Discover p 1334 and PDF page 1214.

If you view the screenshot below, you will see that the amount of their assessment is much smaller than the reported amount, which has been doubled by the addition of late fees, legal fees, and court costs. $600-ish has ballooned into $1,500+.

I have lived in the same home for 12+ years and as the development gets more built out, the management company enforcing the HOA rules has been getting more and more aggressive, for lack of a better term. I am mentioning this because one thing that was once permissable because it was unreported or ignored in our neighborhood is now reason for a letter and a fine / assessment against the homeowner. It has always been against the rules, but has not been noted until now.

Our community FB group is full of people complaining about various fines and penalties and complaining about fairness and favoritism. It is very possible that the HOA situation for the Watts is a tiny incident that has been blown out if proportion and has compounded over time.

jmo

This is great info @Ultra Violet, thank you for sharing

I think assessments can also be from insurance claims that would affect the subdivision as a whole, things like damage to the common areas such as a playground or pool or potential liability claims that could arise. Often times HOAs carry very high deductibles on the Master Insurance Policy. They typically carry high deductibles because HOA insurance can be quite expensive and also has to be voted on by the HOA Board Members every year and price usually wins. As a representative of a major insurance company, I used to have to go meet with HOA board members annually to review the policies. When the deductible is high, they can divide that amount out to the Homeowners.

It's definitely possible that the HOA Assessment could have been something like this as well and may not have had anything to do with Shanann and Chris themselves?

Thank you again for the info.....I feel like I always learn something new on WS because we have such amazing minds!

 

[MsBetsy]

I'd have to go back and look to see which actual video it is. It was shortly after CW confessed, his father is still there on one side of the table rubbing CW's back (blech...) and one or both of the detectives are on the other side of the table...

Oh, I was thinking of the one before that. I know he was trying pretty hard to cry when his dad was in there but I didn't here him say that about Nickol. If he said it to his dad I can believe it.

 

[JEM1975]

Thank you so much for your kind words. You really would have loved Shanann! It gets tiring when people just pop in without reading. I try not to pop up in defence often, but sometimes, I just have to.

The quality of Shanann's friends and family speaks to the quality of Shanann as a person. She has inspired me and has truly made me think about the legacy I want to leave in the world! I think you are right, I would have liked her very much She was incredibly lucky to have you as a friend!

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

She turned over her phone in August. Where does it say they did not retrieve the text messages? She was not a suspect in August and after the sentencing the DA said the case was closed and that the only person responsible for killing his family is Chris Watts. How much more over can it be?

In her 2nd interview she was really snotty about them getting the text they need,and very evasive about them asking about her feelings about the children.
Not very helpful,or forthcoming when it's a quadruple murder investigation.

 

[Layla123]

In her 2nd interview she was really snotty about them getting the text they need,and very evasive about them asking about her feelings about the children.
Not very helpful,or forthcoming when it's a quadruple murder investigation.

That’s not what the detective said. He said they got everything they needed from her. He also suggested she forget about it for awhile and go out with some friends.

 

[Layla123]

There’s a new to me interview with CW’s dad on Scott Reisch today. It’s really hard to understand him. My apologies if it’s already been posted.

 

[esayer]

I know. That poster accused NUA of snooping in things that were none of her business. He/she was angry with NUA.

That poster sure has been quiet since sentencing! Wonder where they are now lol.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Ignore is literally the BEST feature of WS

Wish I had the ignore feature for my 3-hour staff meeting at work tomorrow.

 

[MsBetsy]

I just watched the first video of LE meeting NUA at SW home for first time. I suppose many of you knew this right away and I missed it, but NUA spoke of how SW was distressed on the trip all weekend and wouldn’t eat and they had to force her since she was pregnant. I believe she had that sixth sense that something bad was about to happen. She must have been so sad and miserable.

I think at that point she thought Shanann was passed out or very ill, but she knew Chris was hiding something.
As soon as she saw him run in the garage, and he let them in after running through the house, I bet that's when she began to suspect him of doing something horrible. I think she was in a state of panic and shock. But the moment Chris came out with Shanann's ring is when I think she realized he may have actually killed them. It had to have been so unbearable for all the friends and family members to endure all the lies circulating on line because of that moron. I can't believe its still going on.
At least justice has been served. That has to be a little bit of a consolation.

 

[MsBetsy]

That’s not what the detective said. He said they got everything they needed from her. He also suggested she forget about it for awhile and go out with some friends.

Right, there was only one set of text messages they needed, and that was the one with her friend Charlotte. She also explained further in regard to what exactly she meant by saying she wasn't sure if she wanted to marry someone who already had kids. The detective explained that they just needed to make sure there was nothing said about getting rid of the kids or something like that and he seemed to be satisfied with what they had. Imo

 

[Gecko100]

Hello all, thanks for all the brilliant insights and information in this tragic and dreadful case.

I was looking around at stuff that might go towards explaining Chris Watts' behaviour. I am a retired unverified social worker, and these puzzles really interest me especially as my background is in child protection, and assessing abusers was my stock in trade.
A couple of observations that I have made suggests that Watts has an attachment disorder which has already been alluded to, he is attached to no-one deeply. He may have some surface feeling for his dad, but remember that his dad didn't save him from his mum, so he is probably angry at him subconsciously.
I don't think he trusts anyone, and the reason I believe this is at very early stage of life, his needs were not mirrored by his mum who saw him as an extension of herself. If you can't resolve this very early damaging issue, the chances are that you won't meet all the other individuation processes either. (Erickson). So he was underdeveloped emotionally, and very immature. That's kind of obvious lol. A toddler in a man's body.

As a child of a narcissistic parent, he had two choices beat them or join them. We can't beat narcissists especially ones who are responsible for our needs so we are stuck as children, you enter their skewed world, or you suffer. He joined them.
I don't think he was a good parent, just based on what I observed. His behaviour was likely superficial at best, and I can image that he was not a tolerant person who actually liked chicken nuggets being thrown at him. I believe Shan'ann probably thought it was funny (I would too). He was insulted. It's sensitive to him.
He is one of those narcissists who is an angel on the street and a devil at home. I think we know that from the neighbour.

I also think Shan'nan was the subject of domestic abuse perhaps not physical, but abuse nonetheless. Her declarations of love for him reminded me of the cycle of violence, almost like she needed to to keep him calm and engaged, she was sensitive to his needs. I just wish she hadn't chosen him, his behaviour would have affected the children, but I sense Shan'ann mediated this in some way.

I am horrified at the family Watts' behaviour and think Shan'ann was brave to take it on. They are a dysfunctional family of enablers who are incapable of self reflection or the needs of others, particularly children.

Narcissism is one of those things so damaging to children, but by it's very nature it actually causes narcissism. That's why it's not unusual to find one or more in the same family.

That's it from me, hope it adds rather than detracts from the discussion.

Mr Jitty I recognise you from the MK forum.
Dave are you masquerading as Harassed Wilsod? lol

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Right, there was only one set of text messages they needed, and that was the one with her friend Charlotte. She also explained further in regard to what exactly she meant by saying she wasn't sure if she wanted to marry someone who already had kids. The detective explained that they just needed to make sure there was nothing said about getting rid of the kids or something like that and he seemed to be satisfied with what they had. Imo

Oh. I see. Just with all the lies she told it's easy to not take her word for anything.
MOO

 

[Jessthinkin]

Oh, I was thinking of the one before that. I know he was trying pretty hard to cry when his dad was in there but I didn't here him say that about Nickol. If he said it to his dad I can believe it.

He said "her", but given the context, and what finally sounded like actual crying, I think he was referring to NK...

 

[MsBetsy]

In her 2nd interview she was really snotty about them getting the text they need,and very evasive about them asking about her feelings about the children.
Not very helpful,or forthcoming when it's a quadruple murder investigation.

What I heard her say is that he had his own kids and it's different when you have your own kids together. She told Charlotte she wasn't sure he was the man she wanted to marry. The detective told her he wanted to make sure there was nothing bad said about the kids. He also assured her that she wasn't a suspect, but explained why they had to make sure. I got the impression they were very thorough and cared very much about this case and if they had found anything at all to indicate that she encouraged him or was in anyway involved they would have called her back in and interrogated her aggressively. There is no way they would ever let that slide. Imo