CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #2

[Mogwai]

I don't think anyone is doubting the mother. The story she is telling is the exact story as she remembers it. We have to accept the fact that if five people were present when something happened, a year later, you will get five different stories if you ask about it. We have to keep this in mind. I don't think anyone thinks the mother is intentionally making any of this up. She has experienced a major, major trauma in her life, and she has no closure. We must consider this when we read this story, or we are being blinded, and will never know the truth.

This is aimed at nobody in particular. I just felt a strong urge to bring it up. I get the feeling in some comments that the mom is being blamed for M's death for some reason (or there is some evil reason she is blogging about it now). I really don't get it. I understand there are questions, such as was it suicide or murder? I just don't get why mom is being doubted.

This lady is a grandmother. She raised 3 children and 2 are living their own life with their families. Like I said before, I don't think she just woke up and decided to start a big stink about her daughter. I sure neither her nor her husband wanted to share all the details of their life, but they seem to be willing to do that. This is a victim friendly site. I almost hope mom is not reading some of the thoughts on this thread.

IMO...I really believe TI believes what she writing. Sure, it could be grief and the sadness of a mother not wanting to accept the way her daughter died. But it could also be exactly as she says. There could be somebody out there that committed a horrible crime that is now walking free. ME could have made a huge mistake in their autopsy and they don't want to admit they made a mistake. I understand there are many questions and unanswered questions but I think it's wrong to question the family until an official statement is made about them that puts their intentions in question.

As always, this is just my 2 cents and opinion. Hope I didn't offend anybody. Please don't be to rough on my opinion. LOL

One other thought I have.....if there is a stalker, I am pretty sure he/she/they have heard about the blog. If they have searched, there is no doubt in my mind they are reading or writing on WS.

Peace to all.

 

[deca]

A group bullying of Morgan has been brought up as a potential scenario.

I saw a few times growing up that a particular person in a group of friends was being subtly bullied. The individual didn't know what was going on as most of the things were behind her back (rumors being spread, nasty comments, etc.). I can see a scenario where a few people in a large group didn't like her* and started harassing her. Maybe one of the people became obsessed with the harassment and it morphed into something very scary.

*In some of these cases there was really no reason that the victim was singled out. For some reason the bullies didn't like the person and would pin something insignificant as the reason. Like: wrong clothes, good grades, she :"mad dogged" me, friends with so-and-so, etc.

JMO

 

[rollinginit]

One thing that comes to my mind about LE.

They claim they went to the house 50 times and there was never any proof of stalking.

The sheriff’s office says they visited the Ingrams’ neighborhood nearly 50 times in a four month span, and never found any signs of a stalker.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/09/07/parents-say-daughter-was-murdered-want-investigation-reopened/

Well, why did they update the case to a felony stalking? They must of had proof of some sort of stalking to update the case.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Chunkymonkey the link is to an online denver article with one comment under it..it was linked to and disscussed the last part of thread #1..i believe if you do a search of taste of honeys posts you will find it linked there..infact if im not mistaken i recall it being post #501 on thread #1..but thats just from memory..

Hth

It was not me who put the link up---but I recall it was very controversial.

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

The one I have mentioned? Its a private part of a forum, so it isnt accessible to the public.

Yes! Bummer. Thanks anyway.

 

[sascha]

Having a teenage daughter myself i know the drama that comes with girls, there can be such hatred ,love ,jealousy and every other emotion i can think of. Could this be just a extreme form of teenagers being ...well who teenagers often are .... mean? Could there be a stalker that due to the fact that there was so much hoopla going on was /is able to fly under radar ? The fact that no evidence was ever found(well so far) makes is so hard to believe that 2 or 3 teenager could be so sophisticated . Also for all of them to keep it a secret for a year? Most kids can't go without telling someone anything for a week?Oh i just don't know what to think about all of this :dunno:

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

This is aimed at nobody in particular. I just felt a strong urge to bring it up. I get the feeling in some comments that the mom is being blamed for M's death for some reason (or there is some evil reason she is blogging about it now). I really don't get it. I understand there are questions, such as was it suicide or murder? I just don't get why mom is being doubted.

This lady is a grandmother. She raised 3 children and 2 are living their own life with their families. Like I said before, I don't think she just woke up and decided to start a big stink about her daughter. I sure neither her nor her husband wanted to share all the details of their life, but they seem to be willing to do that. This is a victim friendly site. I almost hope mom is not reading some of the thoughts on this thread.

IMO...I really believe TI believes what she writing. Sure, it could be grief and the sadness of a mother not wanting to accept the way her daughter died. But it could also be exactly as she says. There could be somebody out there that committed a horrible crime that is now walking free. ME could have made a huge mistake in their autopsy and they don't want to admit they made a mistake. I understand there are many questions and unanswered questions but I think it's wrong to question the family until an official statement is made about them that puts their intentions in question.

As always, this is just my 2 cents and opinion. Hope I didn't offend anybody. Please don't be to rough on my opinion. LOL

One other thought I have.....if there is a stalker, I am pretty sure he/she/they have heard about the blog. If they have searched, there is no doubt in my mind they are reading or writing on WS.

Peace to all.

I get your point! Wayyy early in this thread, people were bouncing around possible motives (insurance money) for the mom in particular (why, I don't know) to commit the murder. It wasn't really anyone's theory per se, it was just a thought bounced around. That idea didn't get much traction, though. If TI read that, I am sure her feelings would be very, very hurt. But the truth of the matter is, she's decided to put her story out there so people will start talking about it. I guess she has to take the good with the bad, KWIM? BUT, if she contiued to read through our postings, she'll see that our hearts are breaking for her, that we are all completely mortified by what has happened to M, and we all want justice to be served. If we could talk to her, we'd have a million questions for her, and some may be uncomfortable. But I think (I hope!) that she'd be able to see that we are compassionate people who are sensitive to what she is going through, and that she has our support. I don't think there are many people (vocal people, that is) who doubt what she is saying is true, to the best of her ability, from her own perspective.

By the way, she DOES think that the culprit(s) are reading her blog. I hadn't thought about them reading this one. Yuck.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I understand exactly what you're saying rollinginit as well as I take no offense, nor believe any offense was at all in any way meant in your post..

ITA with you about that Toni Ingram did not spontaneously decide to share this, nor created the events of which she is relaying to us, the public thru her blog.. I also know that Morgan's death even without the stalking..her death and the standard operating procedure that immediately followed her death..well, that procedure imo appears to be anything but standard..IOW there were errors, and not errors of a benign nature such as typos and/or irrelevant extraneous details forgotten or left out..we are talking major errors of an extremely significant nature such as not even following certain standard procedures such as toxicology, gastric contents, rape kit, and quite likely numerous other errors or obvious omissions..

The above alone without ever having any of the stalking events whatsoever enter into the picture..the above alone lend far more than enough credence of this deserving to have further investigating and testing done..

It is absolutely possible that Morgan Ingram was at the end of her rope and as someone stated that she said that nigt that she was "done" and dad went to bed weeping(tho Inhave not looked yet to even see where this information came from or was derived of)..but just going with it being in fact true and accurate..imo it absolutely is possible that she chose to take her life..tho, the same goes for if this were to be true that other facts do seem to raise doubts of it being accurate(as in the sheer volume of medication that would have had to have been ingested by the literal multitude of mouth fulls of amitryptiline pills by her with zero sign of even so much as a tiny pill fragment is left..along with the flexeril found in her system when there had never been flexeril in the home)..

So, while I am not at all saying thats its IMPOSSIBLE that Morgan committed suicide, I am stating that just as with the COD being homicide that NONE OF THEM FIT PERFECTLY AND ALL HAVE ISSUES THAT RAISE DOUBTS ABOUT IT BEING THE CAUSE OF MORGANS DEATH..

These above described issues regarding this case are just scratching the surface of the multi faceted case..but imo by just pointing out the above issues present in the case they indicate that they, alone and by themselves fully warrant for further investigation into this case..

For me personally its almost 2 seperate issues..the way and manner in which Morgan died is one prong and then there is a felony stalking issue that is the second prong THAT MAY/MAY NOT BE RELATED TO THE FIRST PRONG OF HOW MORGAN DIED..
I am not convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that Morgan was actually/technically murdered by the hand of another(stalker(s))..but I absolutely 100% believe her death warrants further testing or investigating to ensure that her death was not at the literal hands of the stalker(s)..(now its a whole other ball of wax in getting into the stalkers being responsible for her death irregardless whether they were present/or had a direct hand in her death..and that particular issue I'm not broaching in this particular post)..

And then there is the other prong seperate from the actual death of Morgan ..I without a doubt believe that there is a felony stalker that at this present time is likely free and shares the sidewalks with you and I and our children.. I fully believe that the long term stalking should also continue to be investigated with the goal being enough evidence to arrest and successfully prosecute ..basically the way i see it is that lets say Morgan did commit suicide..should this b@st@rd stalker(s) actually reap the benefit of this young victims death?..because basically thats exactly whats happening that due to the victims death, tho the stalker may not have DIRECTLY had a hand in..they are however reaping the benefit of never having to face the consequences of the felony stalking due to the victims no longer being here to stalk...

In any way that I look at this multi faceted case I come to the conclusion that without doubt it warrants further investigation, period...and I believe that it is exactly that what many of us are for and want to see happen.. There should not be this line drawn in the sand of "believe Morgan was murdered" VS "believe Morgan committed suicide".. Yet, sadly there clearly is that exact mentality thats sprang up in her threads..

Thats not what this is about and I believe that is what rollingitup and I and many others keep trying to make clear that its not an "Us VS Them" challenge as some are treating it as..
This young womans life is soooooooo very much more than that and thats what we strongly believe deserves justice..and not necessarily justice for a murder..but justice for the felony stalking that she clearly was a victim of along with her family....

All jmo tho..

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I keep thinking of the West Memphis 3. Some of the victims' family died believing in their heart it was those boys. And it wasn't.

My father was a private investigator, and I know where he would have looked first had he been hired to investigate this by the family. I'm just trying to be objective.

Just curious, was he a believer of looking to the obvious first---like an Occum's Razor kind of guy? Bless all of the decent investigators who do a great and thorough job! :rocker:

 

[Mogwai]

I keep thinking of the West Memphis 3. Some of the victims' family died believing in their heart it was those boys. And it wasn't.

My father was a private investigator, and I know where he would have looked first had he been hired to investigate this by the family. I'm just trying to be objective.

This is another thing driving me insane. We have zero evidence that these Alphabet Kids have done anything shady here. We know one was arrested for something else (not assault or a violation on another person), but there is no evidence of them doing anything to MI, her family, or the neighbors, or anyone. There aren't even any anecdotes of them being the neighborhood hooligans, nothing. MI never mentioned they had treated her poorly, or done anything to harass her, or anyone else.

The first time I can remember them being mentioned is when the mother says someone told her one of them had the same build as the guy in the camera shot.

That isn't enough to blame someone. It isn't.

We don't know what happened. But it unfair to drag these kids in with zero objective evidence.

 

[MayraMM]

Just curious, was he a believer of looking to the obvious first---like an Occum's Razor kind of guy? Bless all of the decent investigators who do a great and thorough job! :rocker:

My dad was a very good investigator. It makes sense to start close in and work your way out, no matter how painful it might be to some people. He wouldn't rule ANYTHING out without proof, and he would never base an entire case on one person's perception of it.

 

[21merc7]

I haven't noticed anyone suspecting mom of anything, but maybe I have missed some posts. Nor outright blaming kids of murder. All is just tossing around thoughts, imo.

I do think mom may need to speed up the posts on the blog though. Not just for us, but for any that some have contacted, such as Dateline, etc... (This was mentioned in comments on the blog.) It may also keep some speculation down.

However, speculation is all there is. So, even without all the info up on the blog yet, there will be lots of theories and just plain thoughts tossed out. Not all will be exactly what mom and dad want to read, but that is the nature of the internet and of unsolved cases.

Out of the many cases I have ever read about there are always differing views, opposing views, out right blame going on, and unfortunately, not all cases come to an agreeable conclusion or a conclusion at all.

I do feel very sorry for the family and friends of M. I hope they find some answers. I don't know that anyone here or on any other board will find any, or even any t.v. shows. Perhaps if we keep talking and showing interest, media shows interest, just perhaps some forensic analysis of belongings and any evidence held will begin.

 

[concernedmother]

JMO but I think the meds are somehow linked to the horse farm and possibly the stalker could be too. I know mom seems to think K did something and Im not sure she is looking at anything else and that is concerning. It could very well be someone right under their nose that they never suspected. There were 2 sisters murdered 2-3 months ago and the perp wasnt anyone that was suspected. And look what just happened in Jake Wheeler and Jessica Evans case just couple weeks ago. Im learning to stay open to possibilities especially when there isnt enough evidence leading to one person.

 

[rollinginit]

I really meant no insult to anybody with my post.

I keep thinking about that ID show that is of stalkers. (can't remember the name) This blog would be prefect for that show.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Impressive memory! :rocker: Thanks!

I was hoping a new forum had been revealed that M's friends were posting on. No such luck. (Yet!)

Nope, not me---it was Lera213 who posted above link. Thread #1, post #819.

'Just being clear and correct with info......

 

[21merc7]

I really meant no insult to anybody with my post.

I keep thinking about that ID show that is of stalkers. (can't remember the name) This blog would be prefect for that show.

I don't think anyone took offense rollinginit.

Here is something I found b/c of your post:

http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/stalked/tips/tips-for-stalking-victims.html

http://investigation.discovery.com/resources/stalking/stalking-facts.html

ETA: Is the show you are thinking of "Stalked: Someone's Watching"?

If so, you can watch some here:

http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/stalked/

 

[SmoothOperator]

It was not me who put the link up---but I recall it was very controversial.

Oh my bad..i just followed the link from the post chunky was replying to which simply took me to the recent comments from Toni's blog which were talking about the denver online article and more specifically the one detailed comment inder that article(the one which you posted i thought..lol i remember your spidey senses tingling..lol)..anyhow toni replied back to the person speaking of the lone wolf post under the denver article that toni appreciated her letting her know thats what the link posted in tonis comment section was actually to..with toni saying she had erased the comment with the link...

So thats why i posted referencing your post with the spidey link..lol..i quite obviously did not see the comments referencing a controversial forum..lol..someone please do share..lol

 

[Mogwai]

Another interesting thing - Elavil / amitriptyline. This may be a very common medication in veterinary practices (I'm not a vet, so I'm not sure), but it is not commonly used in people anymore. It is an old, tricyclic antidepressant. It is antiquated in the way that it works as an antidepressant, and is usually only prescribed as a last resort if all others have failed.

Doctors also prescribe it for post-concussive syndrome, and a preventative for chronic headaches.

The majority of people in the world would likely have never heard of amitriptyline. Amitriptyline is not a household name, and isn't used as a common recreational drug.

However, MI and her family DID know what amitriptyline was, as it had been prescribed for her. Drowsiness is a very common side effect. It is usually to be taken at bed time. Both she and her family would know that amitriptyline would help her sleep, but a rando stalker would not likely have ANY idea this medication would work like this on her.

If someone went to the stables and looked at all the medications, intending to steal one (either to do harm to someone else or themselves, or even to help themselves sleep) would they grab a rando one that they know nothing about, or would they grab one that they are familiar with, and that suits their purposes?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm trying to get an idea on what, if anything could be done for justice to be served in Morgan's case, if there was foul play. Maybe some of you can enlighten me on things I am missing.

Since Morgan's body was cremated, then they can't do any additional testing.

As far as evidence goes pertaining to the stalking on the property all they have is a silhouette of a human figure that could be anyone. There is no possible way, anyone could figure out the identity of that person from the photo. There is also a shoe print, but that would have to be matched up to the shoe of a suspect.

The only way, I could possibly see anyone being charged for a crime would be if someone else talked.

Does anyone else have any other ideas of how someone could be caught and convicted of a crime from the information we have been given so far?

 

[Cazzie]

From the OP:

Here are some ground rules for posting on this unique case:


1)no bashing of the family: THIS INCLUDES THE FORMAT OF THE BLOG
2)no sleuthing of the family
3)discuss the blog posts
4)do not copy and paste blog comments
5)no speculation on mental illness of the family or Morgan (there is nothing in the msm to back this up)
6)use the alert button to communicate any posts that you have a question with
7)leave the snark and personal attacks at the door

......

after reviewing the entire thread I will also add on sleuthing the parents' property.. :-( and also add:

8) use initials when posting any possible suspects. As far as sleuthing them yourselves we will stick only to what is in the msm or on the blog itself.