CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #2

[deca]

The other thing I noticed when I was reading thru the actual .com site is that the parents have a donate button. That just does not sit right with me.



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Respectively snipped.
The donate site goes to a scholarship in Morgan's name, not in the parents pockets, I believe.

 

[ttcRider]

Respectively snipped.
The donate site goes to a scholarship in Morgan's name, not in the parents pockets, I believe.

I think the Anthony's fiasco have ruined it for a lot of people. The donate button always raises a 'red flag' for me now a days.

 

[deca]

Sorry about posting so much in a row...my bad.

Anyways, multiple times upthread posters commented: why didn't the rocks break the windows? and why did they not find evidence (the rocks) on the ground.

The Ingrams believe that the perp had a telescoping wand of some sort, and he was using it to tap on the windows and maybe used it to knock the camera. I have seen two types of these. One is a telescoping "police" baton that is rather thick. The other looks more like an old fashioned metal antennae.

That is a telescoping 25 inch police wand. Maybe they make it longer? Ingrams said a tall man jumping would still need a few more feet to reach the camera.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

SBMFS ;-)

We pay about $230 less a year for our HOA and we receive notices for everything from yard sales to dangerous situations. Granted my family lives in one of the top ten safest cities in the Nation, but how much can it cost the HOA to send out email, snail mail or texts to alert the neighborhood? Mel ~


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Mel---I was just thinking, specifically in this particular case, mom suspects the stalker (s) to live on the cul-de-sac so in hindsight, a communications committee regarding M's stalking or harassment may not have been a smart move anyway??!! Who knows?

 

[mnegri1973]

Respectively snipped.
The donate site goes to a scholarship in Morgan's name, not in the parents pockets, I believe.

I saw that one about the scholarship but that donation goes thru the school I believe. They also have another account set up to help run the website/blog. They also listed about using it to help bring awareness and how to protect oneself as well but I guess that I'm just leery. I know of quite a few cases where donations are asked for, they are given but there is no way to track the fund for accountability.

Mel ~

EDIT- I truly do hate when my auto correct, corrects something into something completely different!! ;-P

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[MayraMM]

Sorry about posting so much in a row...my bad.

Anyways, multiple times upthread posters commented: why didn't the rocks break the windows? and why did they not find evidence (the rocks) on the ground.

The Ingrams believe that the perp had a telescoping wand of some sort, and he was using it to tap on the windows and maybe used it to knock the camera. I have seen two types of these. One is a telescoping "police" baton that is rather thick. The other looks more like an old fashioned metal antennae.

That is a telescoping 25 inch police wand. Maybe they make it longer? Ingrams said a tall man jumping would still need a few more feet to reach the camera.

The sound of rocks hitting a window is completely different than the sound of a piece of metal tapping on it. I tested it. My son has one of those telescoping things, so it was easy to do.

 

[deca]

The sound of rocks hitting a window is completely different than the sound of a piece of metal tapping on it. I tested it. My son has one of those telescoping things, so it was easy to do.

So do the Ingrams think both those things were used? I remember the discussion about the wand; I don't remember if actual rocks were mentioned or that was implied...

(not trying to be snarky i just don't remember)

 

[MayraMM]

So do the Ingrams think both those things were used? I remember the discussion about the wand; I don't remember if actual rocks were mentioned or that was implied...

(not trying to be snarky i just don't remember)

At one point they say pebbles. They also say rocks. And then speculate about the stalker being up on the roof using a telescoping baton to knock on the windows. So far there hasn't been mention of rocks being found under the windows, at least not that I can remember, so maybe they aren't sure themselves.

In the beginning, tho, it wasn't rocks, it was tapping, like someone actually up on the window knocking. Those were part of what M herself witnessed the first 8 days or so. Then the incidents seemed to change in character.

Someone pointed out that there were pebbles in the picture of the shoe print.

 

[koalabear]

Oh my bad..i just followed the link from the post chunky was replying to which simply took me to the recent comments from Toni's blog which were talking about the denver online article and more specifically the one detailed comment inder that article(the one which you posted i thought..lol i remember your spidey senses tingling..lol)..anyhow toni replied back to the person speaking of the lone wolf post under the denver article that toni appreciated her letting her know thats what the link posted in tonis comment section was actually to..with toni saying she had erased the comment with the link...

So thats why i posted referencing your post with the spidey link..lol..i quite obviously did not see the comments referencing a controversial forum..lol..someone please do share..lol

I'm a bit behind in my WS reading so sorry if someone has already answered this but I did see the post on the blog that linked to the article and that comment. It said something along the lines of "your voice is being heard" or something. I clicked on it thinking it was a new article in the newspaper but yea I guess the poster wanted that comment seen. Intriguing

 

[MayraMM]

Cornbread, all your multiple quoting broke the machine! It has me quoted as saying something I didn't say. Rather, I commented on that post, stating that it's typical for the pathologist to have a PMH and pointed out he called in "chronic" exposure rather than a large one-time exposure.

 

[Thyme]

Have the ground rules changed here? sorry ..I am limited to time at the moment to read all posts. The impression that I am getting here is that the family is being sleuthed?? That the blog is not being believed.

Apologies in advance if I am misinterpreting.

Kind Regards,
~T~

 

[Cornbread]

Cornbread, all your multiple quoting broke the machine! It has me quoted as saying something I didn't say. Rather, I commented on that post, stating that it's typical for the pathologist to have a PMH and pointed out he called in "chronic" exposure rather than a large one-time exposure.

It looks like the quote I quoted was broken. Here's what I was trying to respond to:

Mogwai
(link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8356545&postcount=217)

My problem with this is that this is a report by a pathologist. He did not see her, nor treat her, for the alleged CO poisoning. I do not believe the pathologist would obtain all of her prior records, he most likely went on verbal histories given by the parents.

I don't see any medical records that confirm she actually had CO poisoning, just "suspected." This word, "suspected," leads me to believe that they found no conclusive evidence of CO poisoning, but treated her for it as a precaution.

I think I unbroke it... ish... my apologies for not realizing it was broken in the first place. :banghead:

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Respectively snipped.
The donate site goes to a scholarship in Morgan's name, not in the parents pockets, I believe.

It's called the Morgan Ingram Relief Fund vs. The Morgan Ingram Scholarship Fund. Two seperate funds.

They vow in Morgan's name to help victims of stalking with the donations , no matter how small. Offer rewards, develop tools for victims and LE etc.

They seem to have put a lot of thought and planning into this. imo

 

[Herding Cats]

Have the ground rules changed here? sorry ..I am limited to time at the moment to read all posts. The impression that I am getting here is that the family is being sleuthed?? That the blog is not being believed.

Apologies in advance if I am misinterpreting.

Kind Regards,
~T~

No, Thyme, the ground rules have not been changed. Sigh.

Cornbread, I read on the blog in one of the replies to a comment that the fingernails were real, not gel, not acrylic. Don't ask me for a link...it's late and I'm cranky. LOL. But Toni cleared that up.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I known this woman is grieving deeply for her child.

But......*I have a huge problem with her bringing every neighbor and friend into this picture.

No one, ever saw anyone over months of what she is alleging went on. I would have stopped this behavior in a minute if it was my child. Yes, I have been there! You don't let it go on for months and do nothing, unless there is nothing going on! I would have set outside everyday, every night until I found the person that was stalking my daughter. Then, I would have stuck the barrel of my gun in their face and told them never to set their foot on my property again. (yep, I have done it) I'm sorry, but I don't believe that this is a true story or at least not half of it.

 

[igotmywings]

I don't know if its been poster in the timeline yet or not but Morgans far did get keyed with the worked B!itch. Which i know i find interesting. If Morgan didn't have been with anyone why would someone do that?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I don't know if its been poster in the timeline yet or not but Morgans far did get keyed with the worked B!itch. Which i know i find interesting. If Morgan didn't have been with anyone why would someone do that?

Yes, I think I saw that mentioned. I believe it was at school according to the blog? It was also quite a while before the claims of stalking began.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Cornbread:

No, it is so highly unusual for a 2nd grader to read at a college level yet you quipped "absolutely possible". :banghead:

There are 2 children that have done that recently and they are geniuses that show up on Wiki searches and get a ton of worlwide notariety. Please check it out, both children are from India.

IMO, M's mom made a simple, honest laymans mistake. She probably read the results of the formal reading tests commonly done at the second grade level which lists some categories of results like this: "16-17 (Tier or Level 1)". Mom may have been looking at those results incorrectly as *ages* and made an honest mistake of thinking she had the next Albert Einstein. Don't we all think our children are super-bright and can optimistically misinterpret findings? It's no crime but I am more prone to facts and statistics.

I stand by my comment that if any parent thinks their 2nd grader is reading at college level, please review the testing score grid and if you're still certain, enroll them in MENSA. Any teachers want to chime in here?

 

[gitana1]

The more I read the more I don't understand. In today's blog posting TI is talking about the time Morgan was followed while driving to her friends. She calls her mom, who calls her dad, who then comes hoe from work early, he then drives thru the neighborhood every so often to look, towards the end of all that driving he notices a little green car which the parents somehow attach that little green car to the stalking however Morgan could not describe the car that was following her. So how in the world did the parents make that leap.

The parents then come up with this great plan that the next time this happens, Morgan needs to call the home landline where her mom will turn around and call 911 and then mom will conference Morgan into the 911 operator. Then the way that TI writes this, it sounds like LE agreed with this plan. My question, Morgan is more then capable of dialing 911 on her cell, why call mom to do it for her?

The other thing I noticed when I was reading thru the actual .com site is that the parents have a donate button. That just does not sit right with me.

As for the issue of TI naming names, if she were throwing my name or my child's name out there and making insinuations or just out right blaming us of stalking and murder, I would not even mess with posting in defense, I would be calling my lawyer and maybe even the local LE for harassment.

Also in regards to why the accused and their family not posting on the FB page or the comments section of the blog.......how do we know that they haven't. TI and SI control those sites. They can edit comments or just outright delete them. Again we are only seeing what the Ingram's want us to see.

JMOO

Mel ~

EDITED: I really hate auto-correct!!

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Interesting point about the 911 call.

About harassment, I'm not sure if their blog posts would suffice. Here's the definition of harassment under Colorado law:

Harassment Misdemeanor

Harassment can be committed in a variety of ways, including striking or otherwise making physical contact with another in the absence of pain, use of obscene language or gestures in a public place, following a person, making an obscene phone call, initiating repeated communications, or using fighting language. In order to amount to harassment, these acts must be committed with the intent to harass, annoy, or alarm the alleged victim.

http://www.lawinfoboulder.com/areas_criminal_litigation/harassment.html

Sorry about posting so much in a row...my bad.

Anyways, multiple times upthread posters commented: why didn't the rocks break the windows? and why did they not find evidence (the rocks) on the ground.

The Ingrams believe that the perp had a telescoping wand of some sort, and he was using it to tap on the windows and maybe used it to knock the camera. I have seen two types of these. One is a telescoping "police" baton that is rather thick. The other looks more like an old fashioned metal antennae.

That is a telescoping 25 inch police wand. Maybe they make it longer? Ingrams said a tall man jumping would still need a few more feet to reach the camera.

They had motion detectors and cameras. Unless the thing was 25 feet long, how could a stalker come anywhere near the window without being detected and captured on film?

Ok y'all, bear with me... I used to be called "Multiquote Queen" at another totally unrelated forum. Exhibit A to follow...

Absolutely possible.

WRT the BBM, I don't find it strange at all. When we lived in Texas, our house was under an HOA. They didn't do anything but send out nastygrams when someone's lawn got too high. They didn't keep anybody informed about anything, there were no playgrounds or facilities that they kept up, nada. Literally the only thing they seemed to do was drive around looking for things to Warn people about.

I know plenty of people who would (and have) written stuff in their backyard. It could have been a teen who was mad about having to mow the lawn, or it could have been someone who was just being goofy. I can easily see it being unrelated.

This is one of the things that made me raise my eyebrows at E. If he didn't know them all that well, and was that concerned about the safety of his family, why would he be offering to let Morgan come over AND showing a family who is apparently the target of a stalker where the hidden key is?

Was it ever explicitly stated that her french mani was fake nails? I asked in the post with the second opinion but haven't seen an answer yet.

Can someone tell me what is the deal with nails and Morgan? How are nails significant in this case?

To them, Morgan could have seemed to have everything together. She's gorgeous, smart, talented, and has what certainly seems to be a close family that could almost seem to come straight out of a tv show.

This.

Can you please refer me even one case of a murder by a stalker that was not violent?

WRT the bolded, he stated in his report that his report was made after correspondence with and medical records obtained from her doctors, and lists them by name.

SO well said. Amen.

I have not read one post where the mother was blamed for Morgan's death or which has ascribed evil intentions to her blog. Clearly, she believes what she is saying and is grieving hard for her daughter, hence the blog.

Indeed, indeed.

Shoot, I'd like to see him do his own blog about it.


On the various points you made up there, we're not 50 calls into things, we're a little over 1/4 of the way into the timeline. It seems, in my perception, that I keep seeing posts that come across as though the info that has already been put out there is all the info there is. It's not and I think that's very important to keep in mind.

Also, as far as why she wouldn't have noticed specific details about the car, I can easily see that happening. She's already exhausted and terrified, as well as not being trained in what to notice about things like this, and still being relatively young. It's quite believable to me.

As I have repeated over and over again, this is what my observations are thus far. Also, as I have said over and over again, I guess we have to wait to find out more.

However, nothing on my list of 7 points that make me feel something is not right with the story, will change with more info from the blog or Morgan's mom, except number 6. Why? Because we know LE has stated they found no evidence of stalking, we know that they LE never caught a stalker or saw one (because that would be irrefutable evidence of stalking), we know no stalker was ever identified or caught despite the motion detectors and cameras because if that had happened, there would have been an arrest and Morgan's mom would have mentioned it in one of her interviews with the press.
We also know that despite having dogs in the house, Morgan's mom contends the stalker broke in on a few occasions. She has already said that. We also know, right now,, that only one image of the supposed stalker was ever captured, because Morgan's mom has said so. Moreover, we know that the stalker was able to break the camera without having his or her image recorded because Morgan's mom already said that. New info doesn't change what has been established.

The only thing on my list that could change with more info is number 6, because that has not been revealed thus far in interviews or by police or by the facts.

However, I must adjust number 7 because what I failed to realize (and no one criticized me on!) is it was likely dark (after dinner) when Morgan felt she was followed by a car. I got the time wrong. So, it could have been harder to see the color or identify the occupants, even while being able to make out two people in it.

Thanks to the jackwagon crowd my brother used to run with, I know kids who, at this age or even a little younger, were totally and completely capable of this type of thing.

As far as pictures we assume weren't caught, again, there's still quite a lot of time left for her to cover and, from what she has posted, things continue to ramp up significantly.

I for one am not absolutely ruling out anyone as being the stalker. Do I think that there are some people who, from Toni's writings, stand out as more suspicious than others? Yes, but I'm keeping an open mind that it could be someone other than K and B. I would still really love to see more posted about the stables behind their house and whether there was anyone there who could be connected. At this point, is it important to keep an open mind to all possibilities? Yes. But that doesn't just apply to the people who are more on the side of Morgan having been killed, it applies to ALL of us.

My responses in purple above.

Have the ground rules changed here? sorry ..I am limited to time at the moment to read all posts. The impression that I am getting here is that the family is being sleuthed?? That the blog is not being believed.

Apologies in advance if I am misinterpreting.

Kind Regards,
~T~

No one is sleuthing the parents, that I have seen. Sleuthing would be to investigate and track the parents - track where they are living, their criminal record, and/or other aspects of their background. Disagreeing with their position or questioning aspects of what they say, is not sleuthing, IMO.

It is true that some are skeptical about what is being conveyed in the blog by Ms. Ingram. However, that is not against the rules, from what I understand. Only the format of the blog cannot be criticized. It is also not bashing, from what I understand, to question the reality of what a deceased child said she experienced or the now recorded recollections of her desperately grieving mother. Disagreeing with the mother's position or finding it difficult to believe or questioning the logic of it, etc., is not bashing.

Sometimes I will see people try to use the rules of a board to shut down contrary positions. I hope that's not what is happening here. This is a tragic but fascinating case and I think opposing views are excellent as long as they are respectful and follow the rules, which admittedly, can be confusing at times. I certainly know I have made mistakes. I just don't see what you are seeing here.

But, I am not a mod so I can only give my opinion as to what I see happening.

Perception can vary. Which is the whole point for some of us on this thread.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Have the ground rules changed here? sorry ..I am limited to time at the moment to read all posts. The impression that I am getting here is that the family is being sleuthed?? That the blog is not being believed.

Apologies in advance if I am misinterpreting.

Kind Regards,
~T~

I'm certain the ground rules here have not changed. I think that what maybe seems different is that the family of the deceased has an open, public blog site which lists theories and names and such out there. It is unusual, compelling, and well-written. I hope you get a chance to read it because it provides a lot of info regarding stalking, and safeguards, etc.