CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #2

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  • #801
So Morgan's killer had to have knowledge about the effects of these drugs, also they would have to have knowledge that they were kept there and not locked up. What I'm trying to say, if it were me, no way would I know what drug to give someone....when you search google for drugs there is a host of them to choose from. Why those drugs out of many others?
Hi, Lera. I don't agree that the killer had to know. As a matter of fact, I think there was a lot of 'overkill', which tells me that they never did figure out the dose which would kill, but rather said "more is better....here's all I can get my hands on. Let's throw in flexeril [and others] just to be sure."

Best-
Herding Cats
 
  • #802
If not the stalker, I think the person could be the neighbor who was there speaking with the police that night, or another neighbor who went by to see what was going on.

I do not believe this person was arrogantly leaning on their car as Morgan's mom states. I think the person was in motion and walking in a similar direction as the police.



http://www.stalkingbehavior.com/definiti.htm

http://sapac.umich.edu/article/320
But not only was neighbor Elliot there as he stormed over with LE still present..hes likely in one of the 12 pphotos snapped from the motion activated wildlife cam..and not just that but imo most imporantly is the fact that Toni Ingram with the stalker pic in hand went to elliot's home that very next day and showed Elliot the stalker snapshot, they discussed it extensively including Elliot bringing down an exact replica of the shirt the stalker was wearing in the snapshot(exact except supposedly a different color)..to which caught many of our attention toward Elliot..

So, for those reasons I believe that it obviously was not neighbor Elliot in the snapshot..also in speaking about the neighbor directly to the side of the Ingram home, R imo there has been quite a level of open contact with R and find it impossible for the individual thats better known as thr stalker in the wildlife cam snapshot..for that individual to have even possibly been from R's household..then the neighbor directly on the other side of the Ingram home has thus far in the retelling of these events up til the present time in the stalking(mid sept 2011)no one at all has been residing in this neighbors home so the same for anyone from that residence as in easily marked off the list of "could bes"..

And then further down into the cul de sac after the empty neighbors home you then have the residence of alphabet kids and/or their parents..which goes without saying at this point in time in the blog that its the opinion of the Ingrams that possibly one of those neighbors from one of those two homes in the cul de sac quite possibly is "the stalker" whose photo was snapped from the wildlife cam..

My main point in detailing the neighbors is that the ingrams speak to their having thoroughly gone thru similar lists of each neighbor and the likelihood(or not) of each neighbor as possibly being the one in the snapshot..quite obviously they had become very obsessive in many ways with exactly who resided within their neighborhood alot further beyond just the immediate neighbors..so not only would those individuals each have been easily ruled out as possibilities..but you combine that with the "stalker wildlife cam snapshot" having been out and about in the public knowledge that a neighbor would absolutely have been called out for it being them, if by some chance theyd chosen to not come forward of embarrassment or otherwise..

But yet still along with all of those aforementioned details in existence imo making the chances of it being an unidentified neighbor truly slim to none you also take into consideration that this was a felony stalking investigation(and regardless that some may be of the opinion that fact means nothing)it does however very much include investigators having not only looked at the Ingrams list of possibilities and those marked off as possibilities..but they go it even a step further that imo for me pretty much takes care of that slim to none chance that may have been arguable to have existed..detectives having spoken with neighbors and been absolutely aware of any, if any even existed as possibilities of specific neighbors actually being the individual in the snapshot..that there truly is no actual realistic possibility that this was just an innocent, curious and/or nosy neighbor that is seen clearly in the driveway of the Ingram home within single digit minutes of the sheriff deputies having driven away from the victims home..from there within minimal seconds we have another snapshot that is motion activated the wildlife cam to take another snapshot of what imo obviously shows something coming in contact with the mounted cam that at the very least moves the camera therefor changing its view of where it was aimed when the camera actually snapped the photo..

For me if there were doubt in my mind or that my opinion was that this was quite likely not at all what it "seemed" but rather much different was an innocent happenstance of a curious neighbor that just happened to be in that spot of the motion activated cam..if I believed that to be the most likeliest of accurate scenarios of the who/why this snapshot is of..for me the second of the two extremely close in time snapped shots erases those doubts or opinions of this being an innocent happenstance involving a neighbor..for me that goes out the window in seeing that within minimal seconds of the unidentified individual's photo being captured..you see immediately thereafter that something has suddenly and drastically altered the angle of the camera from where it had prior to that steadily stayed mounted in the one position..

Due to that I find there being a zero possibility of an innocent, curious neighbor having immediately chosen by whatever means necessary to move, change, damage, knock down, or in any way alter the cam or the view of the cam..

Again that is just me personally and sharing what multitude of reasons imo clearly exist that do not only not point to it not likely being an innocent, curious neighbor that we see in the snapshot..but even moreso the reasons and details that exist that prove that this is not a snapshot of an innocent, curious neighbor..

My apologies for being rather longwinded and I do fully realize as well as respect that others do not agree and/or view the details differently than I..it'd be defintely a rather boring, non productive atmosphere here if we were to all agree and view things all the same..along with there'd likely be very, very few pages of posts in each of the cases here;)
 
  • #803
Hi, Lera. I don't agree that the killer had to know. As a matter of fact, I think there was a lot of 'overkill', which tells me that they never did figure out the dose which would kill, but rather said "more is better....here's all I can get my hands on. Let's throw in flexeril [and others] just to be sure."

Best-
Herding Cats

I see thank you HC, always go to you to work my flawed thinking out. :floorlaugh:
 
  • #804
Wait a minute: *light bulb on* M mentioned to her mother the night before IIRC that she thought she was coming down with a cold. Would she have drank orange juice? That would mask the taste of the drug correct, HC?

It might have...but it would be hard to mask that taste. Not that I've tasted it, but from what I've read today, that stuff is about as bad as anything you've ever tasted...not like "ew, tastes bad but I can get it down", rather more like the body takes over and decides to get rid of it through vomiting kind of taste.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
  • #805
I see thank you HC, always go to you to work my flawed thinking out. :floorlaugh:
LOLing at you, silly. Sometimes I don't work flawed thinking out; I compound it with my own flawed thinking. ROFL. Then it's just a big mess of worms rolling around in a bundle.

And like I've said before, glad to see you on this thread, Lera.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
  • #806
Hi, Lera. I don't agree that the killer had to know. As a matter of fact, I think there was a lot of 'overkill', which tells me that they never did figure out the dose which would kill, but rather said "more is better....here's all I can get my hands on. Let's throw in flexeril [and others] just to be sure."

Best-
Herding Cats

HC, I was thinking of the Flexeril as the medication given first, to relax her, maybe even given to her by a friend to help her sleep. With that on board, the ami could be given without resistance and possible gagging. That would explain why there were still pill fragments in the stomach contents: Before the Flex could be digested, the ami kicked in.
 
  • #807
It might have...but it would be hard to mask that taste. Not that I've tasted it, but from what I've read today, that stuff is about as bad as anything you've ever tasted...not like "ew, tastes bad but I can get it down", rather more like the body takes over and decides to get rid of it through vomiting kind of taste.

Best-
Herding Cats

Then that only leaves injection correct? They didn't I bet examine M's body like between the toes, behind the neck for any needle pricks, and I do believe it would have been a large prick. A syringe used on horses perhaps. Maybe that was why the flexeril?
 
  • #808
Morgan's Father, I suggest that you et. al. read all of Morgan's threads here...currently we're on thread #2. Link to thread #1 should be in the first post of this thread.

Let's roll. ;) Well, we're already rollin'. :)
 
  • #809
HC, I was thinking of the Flexeril as the medication given first, to relax her, maybe even given to her by a friend to help her sleep. With that on board, the ami could be given without resistance and possible gagging. That would explain why there were still pill fragments in the stomach contents: Before the Flex could be digested, the ami kicked in.

Now that we know there was ami in the gastric contents, I can see that as a definite possibility. But the ami had to be liquid, you know? And yes, it would have been more quickly absorbed than a pill, and it would have been a short time (I've said before something along the lines of one hour) before death; her stomach would have stopped working a long while before she died, as it is not a vital organ, and blood would have been shunted to those organs (lungs, heart, brain) in the body's effort to keep itself alive.

And to state the obvious, I'm not sure which came first...with the presence of two additional date-rape drugs in her system (unknown quantities), it would be hard to tell which came first, second, third, last, or all at once.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
  • #810
The more I read the more anger I have towards the officials!!! Even more so after Death in the way they treated this family. My gosh, what a living nightmare!
 
  • #811
Then that only leaves injection correct? They didn't I bet examine M's body like between the toes, behind the neck for any needle pricks, and I do believe it would have been a large prick. A syringe used on horses perhaps. Maybe that was why the flexeril?

Yes, as Mayra thought, it could easily have been the flexeril first, but it would have been close to immediately followed by the ami. I'm thinking the flexeril was at or about the same time as the ami, and the two date rape drugs given first, because of the remnants of the flexeril still in her stomach.

I'm just having a hard time placing the order of drugs, because of the flex and ami being in the stomach at the same time.

And btw, if the ami was still in her stomach contents, that tells me that it was a higher dose than what was found in the blood, because it hadn't entered the blood stream yet to be "counted". That is going to be a seriously high dose...

MorgansFather, did the lab tell you how the other ami deaths passed? Suicide, murder? Or is there maybe a way you could find out? If murder, it sure would set a precedent that you could use as a lever to get this case reopened.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
  • #812
Another reason the ami had to be liquid wouldnt that be taking a huge risk that her parents would come in while they are forcing her to shove pills down and taking a chance she would scream? It had to be quick and out of there. Injection sounds most likely.
 
  • #813
I think it is time to call on all verified professional posters on this case.
 
  • #814
I would love to have the verified pharmacologist weigh in.
 
  • #815
I would love to have the verified pharmacologist weigh in.

I sent a request with links, but I believe that person hasn't posted since 02/2012. Hopefully this will bring him/her back!
 
  • #816
Another reason the ami had to be liquid wouldnt that be taking a huge risk that her parents would come in while they are forcing her to shove pills down and taking a chance she would scream? It had to be quick and out of there. Injection sounds most likely.

Which leads to the obvious question: How did someone get into the house to do this? Was something caught on camera that night?
 
  • #817
Which leads to the obvious question: How did someone get into the house to do this? Was something caught on camera that night?

Toni has indicated there were more images, hasn't she?
 
  • #818
Which leads to the obvious question: How did someone get into the house to do this? Was something caught on camera that night?

Thats the biggie we all are waiting for. Hopefully as the blog unfolds there are more images recorded. There is one other logical explanation that I dont know if its been discussed. Someone they were letting in that house, Someone they knew and trusted.
 
  • #819
Regarding the 1st nite of capturing images, Morgan's Father has told us that all of the prior images (of 12) were of him setting up the camera.

I *think* I'm keeping up...
 
  • #820
DON'T MISS TONIGHT'S EDITION OF TRICIA'S TRUE CRIME RADIO.

TO START OFF THE SHOW WE WILL TALK TO TONI INGRAM WHO'S DAUGHTER MORGAN DIED UNDER


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184430"] VERY MYSTERIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES. [/ame]



LATER WE WILL BE FEATURING THE AMAZING SLEUTHER'S IN THE [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=130"]UNIDENTIFIED FORUM.[/ame]



LISTEN HERE TONIGHT (Sunday) 8 PM EASTERN.











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