CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #2

[Marshmallow]

in case like this is it so important to get more than one view/source and we can't. I still see no murder and the stalking is pretty vague as well. Am I the only one, because I don't want to keep posting against the grain in this and there is no other forum/thread here for those of us who do not see any outside crimes commited.

 

[Cazzie]

I previously posted that a good way to get closer to the truth is to follow the ami by not who may have maliciously provided the dose, but rather who else in her network was using ami or flex recreationally. I believe the lethal dose came from sources that "party" with it, rather than treat horses with it. There are plenty of forums of "field reports" of kids taking 6-12 "ami"s and reporting on how it affected them.

Also, when kids get involved in hard drugs in high-school - the kids that want no part of it (morgan) but know about it are often viewed as a liability. They get alienated from the group and potentially harassed to keep them quiet. Other times the group will attempt to convince the outsider to "party" with them and in bad cases (maybe this one) trick them into doing it by dosing them while they are unaware to get them to change their mind - or to bring them down off their "high horse" by making them as guilty as the rest.

In college and high school I witnessed instances of people being dosed with all sorts of drugs -- for purposes of pressure, blackmail, sometimes hazing or just a "joke". The days of spiking a punch-bowl with a few hits of acid are over. Kids have access to full-out narco out there.

This is a very valid theory, IMO.

She was just too beautiful (not just visually) and whomever it was, was just too twisted and evil. JMO.

 

[JBean]

in case like this is it so important to get more than one view/source and we can't. I still see no murder and the stalking is pretty vague as well. Am I the only one, because I don't want to keep posting against the grain in this and there is no other forum/thread here for those of us who do not see any outside crimes commited.

Feel free to offer your viewpoint on the available information. It seems to me that many are questioning murder and that is really an integral part of the discussion.
Was she or wasn't she murdered? If she was how could it be accomplished? if she was not murdered, was it suicide? accidental? If so why and how? Does the medical and available information support your position or is this just a gut feeing? What do you think about the 2nd med report?

I am not literally asking you all those questions, lol. There are many ways to look at the information at hand and exchange ideas. Regardless of our opinion, we all just need to be respectful in our presentation of ideas to each other.

HTH

 

[MayraMM]

I wonder if we will find out later as the story progresses that a hand or just the camera was moved therefore the I's had to readjust the camera angles because that perp was moving them.

But someone would still have had to approach the house in order to move the cameras.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Why bother going through all of that? Elavil can be more commonly found circulating amongst humans; ex. High Schools, Colleges, etc

Point is this, it is not a drug that is commonly found at horse ranches.

The point is a readily available (e.g., not locked up) source that has the drug in a large concentration either in a liquid or powdered form.

The idea is even if someone were to crush a 150 mg tablet...that's still only 150 mg of drug in a considerably larger mass of inactive excipients...which doesn't even come close to the dose Morgan received.

I think someone got access to multiple GRAMS of the bulk drug
(example...not saying this is where it came from):
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/a8404?lang=en&region=US

 

[ellabella]

Don't know if this has been posted but here's a Link to Erowids experience section on ami. Mostly bad experiences not surprising so I don't think it has much demand but I could be wrong. http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_Amitriptyline.shtml#Retrospective_/_Summary

 

[Redbird]

I don't think Elavil is a street drug and don't think anyone would take it as such unless they were desperate to try anything. My experience with it was in 1978 in a psych ward of a local hospital. I have mentioned being a recovering alcoholic and while my parents were
still in denial they threw me in the psycho ward (crazy was a much more acceptable label to them than alcoholic.) I was given Elavil and hated it. They expected me to participate in group therapy and it made me so sleepy I couldn't hold my head up. It did not make me feel high. I was told the sleepy affect would wear off in a few day and was sent home with an Rx for it. I immediately threw it away. I believe it is mostly used as an antidepressent but they have better ones now. Ami has some really unpleasant side affects. I had blurred vision and severe constipation.

 

[Lera213]

But someone would still have had to approach the house in order to move the cameras.

Disguises, hat down where you cannot see the face. My guess as of now.

 

[MayraMM]

No, that's the trade name for it. That's the "easy" name, in other words, from the makers of ami.

I'm wondering more along the lines of illicit drug use, a common name (not the "real" name) that it could be used under. Like when someone is referring to marijuana, the street name for that is "pot". Or cocaine, street name is "blow" or "snow".

I've looked and looked, but I'm soooo unfamiliar with drugs used on the street that I can't figure out what I'm doing. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

I went to one site that allows you to search street names of drugs to find the real names, and I tried to come up with a name. (It doesn't do a reverse search) So, assuming kids would know the drug as L (short for Elavil perhaps?) I typed in L. It came back with every slang drug name that had an L in it. However, "Jelly beans" is a name given to tricyclics, but also to cocaine. Little bomb is another one used for tricyclics, as is Blue Devil. "Amy" (which would have been obvious) is amyl nitrate.

Frankly, while it's used as a drug, I don't think the use is that common, especially since anyone can walk into a head shop and pick up synthetics cheap.
http://www.testcountry.com/search.html?term=vil

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

The point is a readily available (e.g., not locked up) source that has the drug in a large concentration either in a liquid or powdered form.

The idea is even if someone were to crush a 150 mg tablet...that's still only 150 mg of drug in a considerably larger mass of inactive excipients...which doesn't even come close to the dose Morgan received.

I think someone got access to multiple GRAMS of the bulk drug
(example...not saying this is where it came from):
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/a8404?lang=en&region=US

I'm not addressing the method of delivery of the drugs--just trying to rule out the source of the drugs (since it was mentioned that the horse farm was a possible source if the drugs were used there for horses).
Safe to say these meds are not seen commonly in horse farms or ranches. Simple as that. I would think we could look to other theories as to where the meds came from, right? That might answer the delivery question too.

 

[MayraMM]

Disguises, hat down where you cannot see the face. My guess as of now.

I would hope if there was an image captured on the camera, especially one that is wearing a mask or covering his face, the officials would not be listing the manner of death suicide. That would be more than enough indication that there was foul play, and only a truly bumbling and/or corrupt system would not investigated fully at that point. There's no reason they wouldn't have.

 

[MayraMM]

Yes. I was researching dog meds this morning. Mainly tramadol and rimadyl that my dogs have. My hubby also has tramadol. There were many questions wondering if they (the human) could take the dog's meds.:what: Especially the rimadyl. All I kept thinking about was those big, chewable, liver-flavored tablets that my dogs have.:floorlaugh:

You must never have tasted psychodelic mushrooms. If people can eat those, liver-flavored doggy tablets would taste like caviar in comparison! :laugh:

 

[21merc7]

You must never have tasted psychodelic mushrooms. If people can eat those, liver-flavored doggy tablets would taste like caviar in comparison! :laugh:

OMG! Dog poo all dried up! :floorlaugh:

I knew a guy that was taking his St. Bernard's meds. It was sad.

I tasted my dogs milk bones.

Nothing compares. Dog food tastes good!

 

[21merc7]

Cameras and recording

For those that need to know, I forgot to mention this.

If you can get anything taped to a computer, email it to yourself and save it. Email to any friend(s) that will do the same. In this way it is forever available in cyberspace if forensic analysis becomes necessary.

 

[21merc7]

Here's a very detailed article about ami. Didn't know if it was posted yet or not. It shows the levels and symptoms of toxic levels.

There's also some stuff in this article about some people ODing on this stuff and nothing happens until days later. At the bottom, there are 3 or 4 real cases they worked on with ODs.

http://www.inchem.org/documents/ukpids/ukpids/ukpid18.htm

Dang, that is a long time! (Well, considering if it is used for suicide or date rape or murder, that is way too long to wait. jmo, moo, and all that.)

 

[twinkiesmom]

I'm not addressing the method of delivery of the drugs--just trying to rule out the source of the drugs (since it was mentioned that the horse farm was a possible source if the drugs were used there for horses).
Safe to say these meds are not seen commonly in horse farms or ranches. Simple as that. I would think we could look to other theories as to where the meds came from, right? That might answer the delivery question too.

I see source and delivery as intwined with each other as she could have been killed with much less than she received. This is not a controlled substance in which people would have to sign for each dose of these drugs. It's not oxycontin (in which kids have broken into vet practices to steal it).

Even if the horse farm is ruled out, it could have been someone with access to a veterinary pharmacy or a large animal shelter or maybe even a farm (if they stocked their own drugs for livestock). If not horses, how about other livestock? What about a psychopharmacology lab in a university?

The shelf life is 3 years according to the Sigma-Aldrich link....what organizations or centers would have a large bottle of this powder (or liquid) lying around with their other supplies?

 

[deca]

Disguises, hat down where you cannot see the face. My guess as of now.

That is my guess as well. Right now, we don't know what, if any, images are captured on film. Also, we don't know how well the camera records at night under full dark conditions. It could be that it just captures a dark form moving towards the house.
We have had a number of motion detecting lights over the years and usually with a few tries I have already figured out where to stand as to not trigger the sensor. I know that if I creep along the garage door there is a "path" that I can walk as to not trigger anything.

At this point I think we can't discount any theory. For all we know, this creep could have been hiding in the crawlspace under the house or in the attic all day.

 

[bearx]

in case like this is it so important to get more than one view/source and we can't. I still see no murder and the stalking is pretty vague as well. Am I the only one, because I don't want to keep posting against the grain in this and there is no other forum/thread here for those of us who do not see any outside crimes commited.

I'm with you, but I can't talk about why anywhere it seems. It's kind of driving me crazy. Like the mod edit in the OP says, this is a very unusual situation/facilitation of information which I guess makes discussion pretty hard re the rules here.

But no, you're not alone.

 

[Herding Cats]

I'm fairly certain that the ami didn't come from the stables. Like I've said before, I've been around horses for a long time, and have never seen it used. Still a viable option, but one which is, from my perspective, not nearly as accessible as getting it from either the link that Twinkie'sMom provided, or the link Morgan'sFather provided, or the street.

I think that would likely be FAR easier to obtain than searching through tack rooms and hoping there'd be enough on premises to use.

I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again, but it's my opinion that the ami wasn't found in the barns.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[bearx]

I just asked my sister, who is an olympic level equestrian. She's been at a barn constantly since she was like 5, and my parents even built her a barn on our land to keep 3 of the horses nearby for practice.

She's never heard of any of these meds. Vets visit rather than having an on-site vet like it sounds like that stable may have? But it was interesting none the less.