GUILTY CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, deceased/not found, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #71

[BJarv]

As an experienced criminal defense attorney, how could Bowman not consider that she's lying because she's guilty of what she's accused of (accessory)? How could he not consider that she's lying to HIM? That's what the expert said. The defense attorney has to assess the client. Why was Bowman's assessment so off?

JMO

MT is an accomplished liar and was compelling in her testimony. Law Enforcement and States Attorney were duped and it wasn't until they deployed tremendous resources to prove out the timeline and activities of FD and MT that they realized what had happened. Most perps realise talking to police and lying makes zero sense as the consequences are punishing. MT had an agenda relating to the choice to lie and then to lie about the lies. This all was quite stunning and I would argue that this doesn't happen all that often and even with Bowmans and Colangelos collective experience that this was a highly unusual thing to have happen. Its actually stunning that MT consistently lied through 3 interviews and even when she was called on lies as the interviews went on, she often doubled down on the lies. This is not normal behavior imo and I think Colangelo commented on this as did Bowman.

 

[BJarv]

Fitzpatrick could have searched out his trial details online to have proper stats. This is a 5 min search. The fact that he can't even get his own career stats down is unreal to me as this simply seems absolutely half assed. I think it speaks to his inclination to possibly not focus on details and instead his choice to speak in generalities. CVs of most experts can go on for many many pages and they document their experiences and research etc. extensively. Watching the State prove out these inconsistencies in his actual CV cases tried and type of cases tried is imo WILD!

 

[BJarv]

Judge calls recess as State asks question about 'Most Habeas cases lack merit'....

And so it goes.

 

[Jmoose]

Is the State lost in the reeds? They're losing the judge ...

I just don't see where they're trying to go with this.

JMO

The judge is practically hostile to the State’s attorney. Do not be surprised if he rules in Troconis’s favor.

 

[Megnut]

Even with MT fierce hold on the timeline, I still believe AB had to assess the situation which at the time was fluid.

This is the fallacy for me. That if AB had represented MT differently, she'd have gotten a magical outcome.

She could have gotten LWOP. And everyone would be asking why AB didn't angle for a sweetheart deal.

We don't know how this would have gone had he remained her counsel either.

FWIW I am comfortable that no proffer was needed because AB and the DA had a good working relationship. If MT delivered, she'd have gotten a deal.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Not to the same degree, but LE interviewed PG heavily too. I suspect they suspected him as an accessory too, even if under coercion. Instead he was an unwitting party who FD used. The vehicle, the seats, the goose chasing. He wasn't granted any kind of instant immunity. He had to talk first. Which he did. With an attorney present (over the phone once iirc). What FD did was unconscionable, using PG for his own purposes and holding his employment and immigration status ransom IMO.

In the end, PG didn't even need immunity. He was innocent. Forthcoming. Honest. And innocent.

I wish HE could sue MT civilly. For the cost of this crime on him. Emotionally, financially, all of it.

JMO

 

[BJarv]

Not to the same degree, but LE interviewed PG heavily too. I suspect they suspected him as an accessory too, even if under coercion. Instead he was an unwitting party who FD used. The vehicle, the seats, the goose chasing. He wasn't granted any kind of instant immunity. He had to talk first. Which he did. With an attorney present (over the phone once iirc). What FD did was unconscionable, using PG for his own purposes and holding his employment and immigration status ransom IMO.

In the end, PG didn't even need immunity. He was innocent. Forthcoming. Honest. And innocent.

I wish HE could sue MT civilly. For the cost of this crime on him. Emotionally, financially, all of it.

JMO

YES! And do you remember when Shoehorn and MT met PG in the parking lot to DEMAND the motorcycle/dirt bike be returned? That whole event imo was pure intimidation and legal thuggery. What attorney behaves this way and for MT to do this was imo pure pettiness as she must have known that Dulos sold the bike to PG but that the bike actually belonged to HER (iirc she even was paying a loan out on the bike). PG bought the bike in good faith from Dulos who had zero right to sell something he didn't own.

 

[Megnut]

It's not possible to say what AB should have done.

Because anything he may have done would also have had an outcome. That could have ended even worse for her.

IMO AB is also being held responsible for the outcome that Atty Schoenhorn produced, and IMO he brought a whole barrel of monkeys to the circus.

Could we get back to a place where courtrooms are about justice, where both sides are officers of the court and behave as such, and trials are searches for truth?

I know, call me old-fashioned.

JMO

 

[BJarv]

Not to the same degree, but LE interviewed PG heavily too. I suspect they suspected him as an accessory too, even if under coercion. Instead he was an unwitting party who FD used. The vehicle, the seats, the goose chasing. He wasn't granted any kind of instant immunity. He had to talk first. Which he did. With an attorney present (over the phone once iirc). What FD did was unconscionable, using PG for his own purposes and holding his employment and immigration status ransom IMO.

In the end, PG didn't even need immunity. He was innocent. Forthcoming. Honest. And innocent.

I wish HE could sue MT civilly. For the cost of this crime on him. Emotionally, financially, all of it.

JMO

Yes, and his Atty Urso was not pleased that PG had spoken extensively to police and Colangelo but he continued to work with PG and the process for over a year PRIOR to getting the agreement from Colangelo.

Like Magnet said above, the DIFFERENCE was that PG was innocent and believed that telling the truth would not hurt him (this for good reason made his attorney uncomfortable but in the end PG was ok and got his agreement).

But, I do believe that BOTH Dulos and MT via their attorneys defamed PG. In a perfect world he would be able to have sued them but the reality is that defamation suits are hugely expensive and PG would never have been able to afford it. The other reality was that neither Dulos nor MT were worth suing as by the time this all happened, they were tapped out financially or any money that they previously had available had long been hidden imo.

 

[Megnut]

YES! And do you remember when Shoehorn and MT met PG in the parking lot to DEMAND the motorcycle/dirt bike be returned? That whole event imo was pure intimidation and legal thuggery. What attorney behaves this way and for MT to do this was imo pure pettiness as she must have known that Dulos sold the bike to PG but that the bike actually belonged to HER (iirc she even was paying a loan out on the bike). PG bought the bike in good faith from Dulos who had zero right to sell something he didn't own.

If not for the tragic murder of JFd, can you imagine the FIREWORKS when FD and MT predictably split? FD wastes no time on replacements, he's stingy with money, he's vicious in court (divorce court), and he'd soon be hosting a different Murder's Eve Dinner, celebrating her demise. There's always another woman, able to drizzle oil on Greek salads.

Volatile. It was always going to volatile.

JMO

 

[BJarv]

If not for the tragic murder of JFd, can you imagine the FIREWORKS when FD and MT predictably split? FD wastes no time on replacements, he's stingy with money, he's vicious in court (divorce court), and he'd soon be hosting a different Murder's Eve Dinner, celebrating her demise. There's always another woman, able to drizzle oil on Greek salads.

Volatile. It was always going to volatile.

JMO

Yep, what is wild that it was easier for MT to go after PG and use her shady attorney to do it in person THAN go after FD to pay her back for the bike THAT HE SOLD! FD and MT were enmeshed in a relationship that I am not sure was at all explained at trial and I'm not even sure which of the two was the greater master of COERCIVE CONTROL?

 

[Megnut]

Yep, what is wild that it was easier for MT to go after PG and use her shady attorney to do it in person THAN go after FD to pay her back for the bike THAT HE SOLD! FD and MT were enmeshed in a relationship that I am not sure was at all explained at trial and I'm not even sure which of the two was the greater master of COERCIVE CONTROL?

Exactly.

Two narcissists. Even without a murder, it would have detonated spectacularly.

Looks like passion until it isn't.

JMO

 

[BJarv]

Exactly.

Two narcissists. Even without a murder, it would have detonated spectacularly.

Looks like passion until it isn't.

JMO

The passion part was actually one of the more interesting aspects of this as apparently Dulos had already been in long contact with his next mark even though he technically was still 'with' MT. SO interesting the way narcs play even each other but there was something going on here that I think most now believe to be true as to why neither Dulos or MT could in fact kick the other to the curb! That whole period was MT was in contact with Dulos imo complicit sister in Greece and claiming to 'love him' etc. and meanwhile Pattis was making disparaging remarks about MT in the Press iirc. So much between these two folks seems performative and I think they were both just waiting for one to turn the other in to police, but Dulos played the better hand as he I think made it impossible for MT to ANYTHING ELSE BUT LIE! The MT famous quote to police, "I was not cleaning Jennifer" always returns to me as I think it explains virtually all that we saw play out between Dulos and MT.

 

[Seattle1]

Except law enforcement said during the interview that she was lying. The 1st interview didn't go well according to Bowman's own testimony. That's why he did the 2nd and 3rd - to keep repairing things with LE.

I recall AB testifying that MT came to his office with an alibi script in her own handwriting that did not go beyond 5 pm. IIRC, nobody accused MT of lying during her initial interview.

However, and more importantly, LE wasn't aware of the multiple alibi-scripts by FD/MT and FD's phone info until Interview #2 on 6/6/19-- after the dual scripts had been recovered from the office rubbish, and FD's GPS location determined, pursuant to SW. (IMO, AB also learned about the dual scripts at this time). It was during questioning of the dual alibi scripts during Interview #2 that LE accused MT of withholding information and/or not being truthful.

Interview #3 wasn't conducted until 8/13/19, and this interview was at MT's insistence--allegedly to clear up her earlier discrepancies. Although MT was advised by AB not to talk to LE unless she was going to be 100% honest, she used this final opportunity to continue fishing LE for info while protecting FD. MT's method of responding to LE's questions was to tweak her answers to fit the evidence disclosed to her.

IMO, MT, believing she was the smartest person in the room, convicted herself. Nothing and/or nobody was going to stop her from talking to LE. JMO

MT's revisions are best detailed in the AA linked below:

Michelle Troconis arrest warrant

www.documentcloud.org

 

[Megnut]

The passion part was actually one of the more interesting aspects of this as apparently Dulos had already been in long contact with his next mark even though he technically was still 'with' MT. SO interesting the way narcs play even each other but there was something going on here that I think most now believe to be true as to why neither Dulos or MT could in fact kick the other to the curb! That whole period was MT was in contact with Dulos imo complicit sister in Greece and claiming to 'love him' etc. and meanwhile Pattis was making disparaging remarks about MT in the Press iirc. So much between these two folks seems performative and I think they were both just waiting for one to turn the other in to police, but Dulos played the better hand as he I think made it impossible for MT to ANYTHING ELSE BUT LIE! The MT famous quote to police, "I was not cleaning Jennifer" always returns to me as I think it explains virtually all that we saw play out between Dulos and MT.

"I wasn't cleaning Jennifer."

No one said she was. What possible question is that a reasonable answer to?

Except maybe a leaked truth?

I don't think of the Troconis clan wants to accept that Conspiracy to Murder IS Murder. I think MT stands on her conscience, such as she has one, that she didn't kill JFd. FD did. However she was instrumental in the conspiracy to make that happen and cover it up.

Legally, that's just as bad.

"I wasn't cleaning Jennifer."

Why would anyone be "cleaning Jennifer"?

Why did she need cleaning?

We know there was a knife.

We know there was blood.

We know there were trash bags.

We know FD's truck went offline for hours. We don't know how many bags he started with. But we can imagine which ones he'd be motivated to get rid of first. Grim, but a decent fisherman could probably reduce a 100# tuna to a handful of manageable parcels in rather short order. Weighted down in a well, water source, interred, encased, discarded, disappeared.

Two bloody ponchos.

They probably DID shower together.

After.

JMO

 

[Jmoose]

It's not possible to say what AB should have done.

Because anything he may have done would also have had an outcome. That could have ended even worse for her.

IMO AB is also being held responsible for the outcome that Atty Schoenhorn produced, and IMO he brought a whole barrel of monkeys to the circus.

Could we get back to a place where courtrooms are about justice, where both sides are officers of the court and behave as such, and trials are searches for truth?

I know, call me old-fashioned.

JMO

A very good point you’ve made re: Bowman paying the price for Schoenhorn’s inability to get an acquittal for MT. None of this would be happening but for the actual evidence against her.

 

[Megnut]

Live in the courtroom

 

[Weki]

I think anytime a defendant's lies are able to be entered into evidence it's very damaging for the defendant. So the fact that these interviews were played for the jury is no small matter imo. The only out I see here is that MT lied to her attorney so how can she come to court now and say she deserves a new trial?

JMO

 

[Megnut]

The inmate is in a jovial mood today. Very chatty with both of her attorneys and very swivelly in her seat.

Prolly wants to make heart hands for her gallery.

JMO

 

[BJarv]

"I wasn't cleaning Jennifer."

No one said she was. What possible question is that a reasonable answer to?

Except maybe a leaked truth?

I don't think of the Troconis clan wants to accept that Conspiracy to Murder IS Murder. I think MT stands on her conscience, such as she has one, that she didn't kill JFd. FD did. However she was instrumental in the conspiracy to make that happen and cover it up.

Legally, that's just as bad.

"I wasn't cleaning Jennifer."

Why would anyone be "cleaning Jennifer"?

Why did she need cleaning?

We know there was a knife.

We know there was blood.

We know there were trash bags.

We know FD's truck went offline for hours. We don't know how many bags he started with. But we can imagine which ones he'd be motivated to get rid of first. Grim, but a decent fisherman could probably reduce a 100# tuna to a handful of manageable parcels in rather short order. Weighted down in a well, water source, interred, encased, discarded, disappeared.

Two bloody ponchos.

They probably DID shower together.

After.

JMO

Yes to all of the above! The part of the trial that never achieved closure I thought was the MT timeline as she must have for once left her phone at home or turned it off. MT has gaps in her timeline and I do agree with you that she was instrumental in the entire process of 'cleaning' as her fingerprints were found on bags that were dumped on Albany.

What I still wonder is how Mama Troconis can well know who her daughter is and what she is capable of AND YET still support her through all of this and even going to the end and supposedly speaking in this trial under oath. Given the history of Mama Troconis testifying under oath in her own federal proceeding for medicaid fraud, I'm not optimistic we will hear anything having any relationship to the actual truth of the matter.