Custody Hearing - Scheduled for 10/16

[ncsu95]

I am worried about the welfare of the children at this particular point. I am not convinced that he is a safe parent to be with. I also don't see evidence of a support network to help BC with being a single parent. BC hasn't gone out of his way to demonstrate that he has a support network. Because of what has happened, I would like to see BC move far away from the controversy before the children are given to him. I would also like to see him cleared of suspicion.

The role of CPS is to ensure the safety of the kids. If there is concern, then CPS could/should be involved on a regular basis. Nothing has been shown that proves Brad is an unfit parent. This is all about the speculation that BC killed NC.

Let me ask you this...if someone else was arrested today for her murder (with proof), would you still think he doesn't deserve custody of his kids? If your answer is that he should then have custody, then your real issue isn't whether he is fit as a parent, because the same concerns about his character would still exist. If he was such an unfit parent, why wasn't CPS involved prior to her death?

 

[ncsu95]

Actually, NC said that he never cleans, I believe.

No, NC's friends said that NC said he never cleans. There is a big difference.

 

[jmflu]

Honestly - I don't believe that he ever cleaned - and - really (flame suit on) why the heck should he?

But we're talking about NC going out of town for what, a week? And she comes home to someone who never cleans not even managing to do it at all while she's away and can't do it herself?

 

[ncsu95]

Honestly - I don't believe that he ever cleaned - and - really (flame suit on) why the heck should he?

On the surface (and that seems to be what this marriage was all about) with Nancy not working outside the home, having day care / preschool for this girls for at least a few hours each week, why the heck should cleaning house be his responsibility?

By all accounts - he spent long hours at work - not surprising - that's just the way it is these days. But - he did do "Daddy time" - because Nancy did have enough time in the evenings and on the weekends to do "girl only" stuff.

IMHO -cleaning the house should have been part of the duties that were on her side of the To Do list. If I was as stay at home mom, I'd clean my house.

Heck - I work, but hubby works more / longer / travels, so the house cleaning is mine. That's just fair.

They choose more traditional roles - and in that scenario, the housework should have been hers.

So - really - that's why I think he didn't normally do ANY - because if I was in his shoes - I wouldn't either.

:clap: Now can I give you my wifes email address so you can forward this to her. She's a stay at home mom and I work in a job very similar to BC.

Unfortunately, I think I'd get whacked with a frying pan if I took this stance. :chicken:

 

[Anderson]

Yes, that is the stance I am taking.

Yes, and that is the basis of our disagreement. I think that there is reason to question his innocence. LE, NC's friends, NC's parents, his former girlfriends, his former Calgary friends, and others are certainly questioning his innocence. Because of this, the inconsistencies and the lack of resolution regarding the case, I am taking a very different position than you regarding how the custody case should be handled.

That does NOT mean that I am starting with the assumption that BC is guilty.

 

[jmflu]

The role of CPS is to ensure the safety of the kids. If there is concern, then CPS could/should be involved on a regular basis. Nothing has been shown that proves Brad is an unfit parent. This is all about the speculation that BC killed NC.

Let me ask you this...if someone else was arrested today for her murder (with proof), would you still think he doesn't deserve custody of his kids? If your answer is that he should then have custody, then your real issue isn't whether he is fit as a parent, because the same concerns about his character would still exist. If he was such an unfit parent, why wasn't CPS involved prior to her death?

But... you just can't separate the two... if the man is possibly a murderer then that makes him unfit, in my book!

 

[Anderson]

No, NC's friends said that NC said he never cleans. There is a big difference.

I am talking about the answering machine message left by NC that was played in court yesterday.

Again, we are getting caught up in the details. It is the sum total of the details that have to be considered.

 

[jmflu]

:clap: Now can I give you my wifes email address so you can forward this to her. She's a stay at home mom and I work in a job very similar to BC.

Unfortunately, I think I'd get whacked with a frying pan if I took this stance. :chicken:

A good whack might be just what you need!!!

JK ncsu95 :blowkiss:

 

[ncsu95]

But... you just can't separate the two... if the man is possibly a murderer then that makes him unfit, in my book!

If he is proven to be a murderer, then he is unfit. With speculation, you have to err on the side of the rights of the father in this case. He is their father. Those girls are not in any danger.

 

[tarheellvr]

Maybe not losing his children was top priority to him? If my spouse were trying to take my children to another country...I think I would be throwing out some stop blocks as well. Additionally, a single instance of forgetting the weekly money is hardly evidence of a control tactic.

If this were indeed the case, why was he so anxious for them to go in the beginning.....almost to the point of pushing them out of the house??????

There is CERTAINLY more than one instance of his control tactics.

I'm hoping and praying Judge Sasser sends Nancy's girls back to Canada.....in my heart I TRULY believe this to be Nancy's wish.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I don't know exactly what I would or would not do...but this was a media circus and all of the venom at the time was directed at him. NC was dead....him going or not wasn't going to change that. I know people said he should have went for his daughters. But what if he did...and people either gave him the cold shoulder, confronted him, or whatever in front of his daughters, who he did not have custody of at the time.

Let's not rehash that old argument. I understand why he didn't go. I don't think it has anything at all to do with his guilt or innocence.

Actually, from HP's testimony it did NOT appear "all that venom" was coming at him immediately; certainly not in the days in which NC was missing. HP testified that Brad was over at her house with the girls on 7/13, along with other people. She said he would not interact with anyone...just kept his head down. Both HP and other friends were helping Brad with the kids, food, and other things. It was Brad who removed the kids from HP's house right after Katie had gone down for a nap and Bella was spending some quality time with Krista. And the kids were very upset...Bella was hysterical and didn't want to go with Brad. (that's in the testimony from yesterday).

 

[ncsu95]

I am talking about the answering machine message left by NC that was played in court yesterday.

Again, we are getting caught up in the details. It is the sum total of the details that have to be considered.

Okay, I'll say it again. It doesn't mean he didn't clean. It means he didn't clean up to her standards. That is not the same thing.

 

[Anderson]

The role of CPS is to ensure the safety of the kids. If there is concern, then CPS could/should be involved on a regular basis. Nothing has been shown that proves Brad is an unfit parent. This is all about the speculation that BC killed NC.

Let me ask you this...if someone else was arrested today for her murder (with proof), would you still think he doesn't deserve custody of his kids? If your answer is that he should then have custody, then your real issue isn't whether he is fit as a parent, because the same concerns about his character would still exist. If he was such an unfit parent, why wasn't CPS involved prior to her death?

We are talking about Brad here. If you look at the entire list of details and add them up, then I am concerned in this case for the children's welfare.

 

[piedmont]

Why hasn't the subject of lie detectors come up? Has he taken one?

 

[ncsu95]

Actually, from HP's testimony it did NOT appear "all that venom" was coming at him immediately; certainly not in the days in which NC was missing. HP testified that Brad was over at her house with the girls on 7/13, along with other people. She said he would not interact with anyone...just kept his head down. Both HP and other friends were helping Brad with the kids, food, and other things. It was Brad who removed the kids from HP's house right after Katie had gone down for a nap and Bella was spending some quality time with Krista. And the kids were very upset...Bella was hysterical and didn't want to go with Brad. (that's in the testimony from yesterday).

I'm talking about what happened after her body was found. There is no immediate justification from Brad waking Katie up from a nap. He might have one, but I don't see it. I will say this, I don't think any of us would say with 100% certainty about how we would react if our spouse was missing. Everyone handles stress differently.

But the venom I'm talking about was after the 14th, beginning with him having his daughters taken away by sheriff deputies, all of the NC friends, message boards, etc. that pretty much declared him guilty from the beginning.

 

[raisincharlie]

<snip>

I am worried about the welfare of the children at this particular point. I am not convinced that he is a safe parent to be with. I also don't see evidence of a support network to help BC with being a single parent. BC hasn't gone out of his way to demonstrate that he has a support network. Because of what has happened, I would like to see BC move far away from the controversy before the children are given to him. I would also like to see him cleared of suspicion.

Anderson I too would be very worried about the children being returned to him for more than a few reasons. To note a few, Brad Cooper did not take the stand, must give the defense credit here as it did negate the opportunity for CPD to testify and possibly introduce actual evidence of BC's involvement. So to me that big old elephant is still in the room because LE has not cleared Brad Cooper of involvement. Truth is, BC's defense did not remove the elephant - that round still goes to Alice Stubbs.

Second - I don't care who paid for Dr. Hilkey - he had the pleasure of interviewing Brad the next day after the deposition. Which means he had the opportunity to meet with Brad in just over 15 hours or so after Brad was confronted by something definitely not to his liking. I therefore believe that Dr. Hilkey had a much better opportunity to see Brad out of his armadillo shell. Dr. Hilkey said the following:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3750528/

Dr. James Hilkey, a forensic psychologist for the Rentzes and Lister, testified that he found Brad Cooper to be narcissistic and arrogant with anxiety and anger issues.

"He can keep it in check, but when it does manifest itself, it is usually directed at family members," Hilkey said. "My opinion is that this is a longstanding anger that has been with him for a fair amount of time."




I think if this does not give someone pause, then nothing will. But it says to me those children are not safe in Brad's care. It also makes me wonder if they are crying for their mother, what his treatment towards them would be.

LE has not named a suspect, or POI , but they sure as heck haven't cleared Brad Cooper and they certainly haven't been writing search warrant affidavits against anyone else.

 

[jmflu]

If he is proven to be a murderer, then he is unfit. With speculation, you have to err on the side of the rights of the father in this case. He is their father. Those girls are not in any danger.

Bolding is mine...
Now THERE is speculation!

For one thing, if BC did kill NC, then he can go over the edge. Who knows what or where that edge is?! Someone who murders someone else is having extreme anger issues, I would say!

And not only that, but if he did it on accident and then was soooooo sorry, why would he go DUMP her body out in the middle of nowhere in such an awful manner?

Ok, and if he DIDN'T do it, then someone else did. And we don't know who that someone is. Someone who had a grudge against Nancy? Against Brad? Would they want to continue to hurt that family?

We don't know!

 

[Anderson]

Okay, I'll say it again. It doesn't mean he didn't clean. It means he didn't clean up to her standards. That is not the same thing.

Details, he didn't like to clean!!

You need to watch more movies if you don't think it was weird that he had just finished cleaning when LE showed up the day that Nancy went missing. :crazy:

Seriously, lets just agree to disagree.

 

[rwesafe]

Fair enough. But, if you look at the time line, positions of NC's friends, general context and some of the evidence that does exist (keys, phone, jewellry at home when she went missing/ major cleaning job on that day, etc.), then I think that you would have to at least acknowledge that it is possible that BC murdered NC. At the moment, it seems to me that you are arguing with pieces of information rather than looking at the case as a whole. I am sure that it is possible that I could be mistaken. After all, you know people from Cisco, so you may have information that I just don't have. I don't know.

As far as the timeline…

There is now a possible sighting of NC that morning at 7:10 am which is consistent with the time that BC stated. Additionally the ME said that her TOD was consistent with the time she was reported to have gone missing.

Positions of NC’s friends…

The position of her friends is clearly based solely on what they were told by NC. I would bet good money that her friends did not know that a)she had an affair in the first year of her marriage b)Unless they were swingers…they probably did not realize that their husbands were hot for NC…or did they? c) Clearly, they did not know the amount of debt NC had, about the loans from family, the loans from the 401k and that even her daddy had stopped supplying funds because of her spending habits….

Keys, phone, jewelry at home…this is not evidence….this just is. Unless you suffer from one really serious case of OCD, no one ALWAYS wears a piece of jewelry, or ALWAYS carries their cell phone or ALWAYS takes their keys with them. Through out this entire testimony of friends it family, you hear the words ALWAYS and NEVER. If people stated, rarely, that may seem more credible. Unless you lived in that house with them, there is no possible way to say he NEVER cleaned or did laundry. IIRC, it was stated earlier the NC had started refusing to do his laundry so that is a direct contradiction to NEVER.

I don’t know if he did it or not. All we really know is that NC painted BC to be a really bad guy. Despite that, none of her friends claimed to witness BC being inappropriate with her or the children when asked in a court of law. Perhaps he is an arrogant A-hole or perhaps he is just an introvert who does not feel capable or comfortable publicly displaying his emotions. Everyone deals with grief differently and I suggest that even a typical means of grieving would be altered if it were under the glare of cameras. It is of no benefit to paint her as an angel and him as a devil. They were both human with very real world human flaws. It seems that BC is not allowed to have flaws….because for him to have them must mean he is guilty….

 

[raisincharlie]

Why hasn't the subject of lie detectors come up? Has he taken one?

Brad has not cooperated with LE since 15 July. Prior to that LE asked him to give a statement - Brad refused to go to police headquarters to do so claiming he wanted to stay at the home near the girls. it hasn't come up because it hasn't happened.