DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Warwick1991]

I do have a question. I didn't see in your link that the "majority" of Blackhawk helicopters have radar altimeters. I guess that could be true but I haven't found a source for that.

Another question for everyone. Do radar altimeter equipped UH-60's transmit more accurate altitude information to ATC display's vs standard altimeters?

This link from Honeywell indicates that its standard radar altimeter, APN-209, is being replaced by a next generation AN-209. This is the altimeter used on most of the UH-60 series. Honeywell Awarded $103M Contract by U.S. Army for Next-Generation Radar Altimeter System

This link from the Federation of American Scientists shows the APN-209 radar altimeter used on the UH-60 series from A through L, as well as other helicopters. https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/aec-pam/ivb.htm

Edited to note UH-60A through L.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

We have enough stuff taken from us in the area. We have more bases than airports here DCA is the easiest to fly in and out of , closing it to the private sector would cripple traffic and make the east coast overall more panful to travel on .

I guess people may have to decide between safety and convenience.

I don't feel that Reagan National needs to close. Instead a better balance should be looked at. Maybe fewer commercial flights to reduce ATC work loads and perhaps a rerouting of the military helicopters so there's not a conflict with passenger airliners.

Overall things to be looked at are the problems with aircraft in the same area transmitting on both UHF and VHF frequency's which inhibits pilots situational awareness. Another thing would be having all military aircraft equipped with ADS-B like civilian aircraft are. ATC staffing could also be improved.

I'm sure that we will see changes that will enhance air safety. Hopefully it's sooner than later. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

This link from Honeywell indicates that its standard radar altimeter, APN-209, is being replaced by a next generation AN-209. This is the altimeter used on the entire UH-60 series. Honeywell Awarded $103M Contract by U.S. Army for Next-Generation Radar Altimeter System

This link from the Federation of American Scientists shows the APN-209 radar altimeter used on the entire UH-60 series, as well as other helicopters. https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/aec-pam/ivb.htm

The second link say's this "AIRCRAFT APPLICABILITY:" .AH-64D, OH-58D, UH-60A/L, CH-47D, MH-47E, MH-60K, EH-60A

The first link is dated 3 months before the accident, so that's a fairly new program.

Neither link say that all UH-60's are equipped with that altimeter. Like a said before, we don't know what kind of altimeter the accident helicopter had and if it played a part in this accident. JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

1000% disrespectful to the victims and their families.

Dumbest employees ever. I’ve worked for two airport authorities and they take excellent care of their employees. Not to mentioned the high level background checks you have to go thru just to get hired. Repeated background checks when the Secret Service roams the grounds prior to high level visitors. These two are ruined. They’ll be lucky to make French fries at McDs.

I'm hoping this is a federal offense and they see many, many years behind bars. Moo

 

[Warwick1991]

The second link say's this "AIRCRAFT APPLICABILITY:" .AH-64D, OH-58D, UH-60A/L, CH-47D, MH-47E, MH-60K, EH-60A

The first link is dated 3 months before the accident, so that's a fairly new program.

Neither link say that all UH-60's are equipped with that altimeter. Like a said before, we don't know what kind of altimeter the accident helicopter had and if it played a part in this accident. JMO

The second link indicates that UH-60 variants A through L have the original APN-209 radar altimeter. That's most of the UH-60 fleet, except for the newer 60M. Standard equipment.

Radar altimeters are accurate within a margin of couple of feet. No barometric pressure involved. The Blackhawk involved in the collision either had an equipment malfunction, or there was a human factor issue. JMO

 

[LadyL]

'You helped bring our boy home' | Parents of Black Hawk crew member in DC crash share profound sense of loss, thank first responders

Staff Sgt. Ryan O'Hara was from Gwinnett County and an alum of Parkview High.

www.11alive.com

tears for them all

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The second link indicates that UH-60 variants A through L have the original APN-209 altimeter. That's most of the UH-60 fleet, except for the newer 60M. Standard equipment. JMO

Sorry but I'm not reading it that way.

I do admit I could be wrong. We will find out when more information is released.

 

[airportwoman]

I'd really like to do something for the divers, you know. Any ideas?

Maybe contact the city and ask if you could order some pizzas remotely, or something like that?

Or, if there's a skating program in your area, donate to a scholarship fund in their honor? (My city has one; that's what made me think of it.)

 

[Seattle1]

2/1/25

What went wrong in the DC plane crash? Ret. Black Hawk instructor pilot breaks down what we know​

Wow... I think this is the first time I've heard that the CRJ pilot was landing on Visual when asked to switch to runway 33 versus they were landing on IFR on runway 1. I think the CRJ pilot would have been focused on their approach and the eyes on ground and not looking for any impeding traffic in the sky. So heart breaking...

 

[Seattle1]

Audio of MID-AIR CRASH into Potomac River | Regional Jet and Black Hawk Helicopter​

8 min - full audio and visual traffic of all aircraft in the sky. True professionals who never blinked or lost composure.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

2/1/25

What went wrong in the DC plane crash? Ret. Black Hawk instructor pilot breaks down what we know​

Wow... I think this is the first time I've heard that the CRJ pilot was landing on Visual when asked to switch to runway 33 versus they were landing on IFR on runway 1. I think the CRJ pilot would have been focused on their approach and the eyes on ground and not looking for any impeding traffic in the sky. So heart breaking...

ILS at that airport would be set up for the main runway which is 01.

So that means the CRJ came in using ILS landing aids and had to go visual when asked to change to runway 33.

Yes, that meant the CRJ pilots had to concentrate on making that more complicated landing maneuver and that could have kept their heads down instead of looking for traffic. JMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Another crash victim from last week’s midair collision in Washington D.C. has been identified and has ties to metro Atlanta.

Lt. Col. Brian Ellis was aboard American Airlines Flight 5342 .... Ellis was in the Marine Corps for 22 years and leaves behind two sons."

Former metro Atlanta high school star football player among those killed in D.C. midair collision

 

[SouthAussie]

"D.C. fire officials were asked about the emotional toll on the divers who are going into frigid and murky waters and seeing traumatic things.

“This is tragic and we’ve had peer support in place since the first hours of the incident to help provide the additional help that they need. We will continue with that throughout the rest of their careers if necessary to provide them that support. But it’s tragic and anything imaginable that you can think of, that is what they are dealing with day in and day out,” said D.C. Fire and EMS Assistant Chief Gary Steen."

Recovery efforts intensify in Potomac as responders focus on retrieving plane's cockpit

 

[Justice101]

But here's where I'm stuck. Those two aircraft, even with the call out from the ATC at 12 seconds before contact, were uncomfortably close. Like mayday close. Seems like the AA pilots should have been advised (assuming they weren't) that switching to the sorry runway would bring them VERY CLOSE to the Blackhawk's crosswind course, giving the pilots enough information to reject the runway change or reject the landing altogether, in favor of a fly around.

100 feet of supposed clearance? Who could be satisfied with that?????? Comfortable near hit? Hot miss?

There's got to be a better way to prioritize incoming commercial flights with souls aboard and feathering in military transport, especially when it transects short approaches.

The aircraft was mere feet really from a successful landing. T-boned. By a projectile which could only happen IMO if both crews were blind to one another. And that just shouldn't be.

That's a gap we should be able to close. One crash too late.

JMO

To me, based on the flight paths, it looks like At would have thought everything okay... until the helicopter turned in the direction of the jet less than 1 minute before impact.

 

[Arkay]

To me, based on the flight paths, it looks like At would have thought everything okay... until the helicopter turned in the direction of the jet less than 1 minute before impact.

It seems so.

Heartbreakingly, this does seem like human error was the cause.

We’ve all read and seen on the news the many pilots and aeronautical experts who have given their opinions on what went so drastically wrong.

The helicopter was at the wrong altitude. The helicopter claimed they had visual separation but actually was looking at the other approaching airplane. The ATC did not state the usual means of saying “at your nine-o’clock” or whatever to specify where the helo pilots should look.

I don’t know. My entire experience of helicopters was being a passenger on one in Hawaii many years ago, to tour waterfalls, when I ruined the other passengers’ experience by throwing up throughout the flight.

The one thing I cannot fault, JUST MY OPINION, is that there was a female helo pilot. <modsnip>

A horrifically human error, maybe a perfect storm of accumulating errors, with unspeakable tragedy as a result.

My opinion only.

 

[Justice101]

2/1/25

What went wrong in the DC plane crash? Ret. Black Hawk instructor pilot breaks down what we know​

Wow... I think this is the first time I've heard that the CRJ pilot was landing on Visual when asked to switch to runway 33 versus they were landing on IFR on runway 1. I think the CRJ pilot would have been focused on their approach and the eyes on ground and not looking for any impeding traffic in the sky. So heart breaking...

The CRJ was angled to the left on the approach which would have made it hard to see anything coming in from the right and downward (as viewed thru the right windows). This to me is the same thing that happened to the military planes in the Dallas air show accident.

 

[Chimera]

The second link indicates that UH-60 variants A through L have the original APN-209 radar altimeter. That's most of the UH-60 fleet, except for the newer 60M. Standard equipment.

Radar altimeters are accurate within a margin of couple of feet. No barometric pressure involved. The Blackhawk involved in the collision either had an equipment malfunction, or there was a human factor issue. JMO

Rbm.
I don't think that can be dismissed yet ?

Still am leaning towards an accident/mistake as it sounded like the Heli. crew were not inexperienced.
So sad for that crew as at least one of them left behind a one year old baby.
Imo.

 

[Chimera]

Kaitlan Collins brought to tears by man whose family died in DC crash

CNN news anchor Kaitlan Collins broke down in tears as she spoke to the husband and father of two DC plane crash victims who tragically lost their lives on Wednesday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I don't blame the anchor at all.
What a tough interview.
Andy's daughter Brielle had survived a rare form of cancer; and from the article she sounded exceptionally bright.
He just lost half of his family.
I'm glad he has his young son.

Rest in peace, Brielle and Justyna.

 

[Chimera]

DC plane crash updates: Remains of 55 victims recovered and positively identified

An American Airlines regional jet went down in the Potomac River near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.

abcnews.go.com

"At least 55 victims have been positively identified from Wednesday night's midair collision....
Donnelly said 11 separate sets of remains were recovered from the water on Saturday but have yet to be positively identified.

Salvage operations are set to begin on Monday, Feb. 3, according to the tentative timeline.
The effort is expected to be completed by Feb. 12..."

Much more at the link.

Might be nit-picking, but I wish some msm sites would separate their articles into a page each, instead of lumping them together so the readers have to keep scrolling to find a specific article.
But that's just imo.

Apologies, graphic :

I'd imagine the yet unrecovered remains may be unobtainable for the divers, if they're entwined in the wreckage ?

Omo.

 

[Bounceycat]

I'd imagine the yet unrecovered remains may be unobtainable for the divers, if they're entwined in the wreckage ?

Or possibly got carried away in the current. I hope not. I hope every family has the ability to give their loved ones a proper funeral.