DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Rolypolyoly]

I just started watching this and really wish I hadn't

I dread to imagine!

 

[Justice101]

The collision avoidance system doesn't work below a certain level because there are so many planes on the ground it would be going all the time. The aircraft would have to be at a certain height above ground level for it to kick in.

That's right, I forgot. thanks!

 

[WiseOwl]

ATC switched runways on approach to 33 which is further north than the regular landing path.. but if it was visual by the helicopter, clearly the jet was not where the helicopter thought it would be.
'
I saw a flight radar (not sure it was legit) that showed flight 5342 steady and arcing regularly for runway 33, but the helicopter abruptly turned to the east towards the plane. Looks to me like the helicopter pilot misjudged the distances and speeds involved and was their fault.

Prayers for the souls on board.

It does appear that the helicopter pilot probably misjudged the distance and speed, possibly even the size of the plane as well.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I believe I read they were both 10—currently looking for the source where I found that info stated. In figure skating’s juvenile category the boys can be 13 or younger, girls can be 12 or younger.

10? They are amazing!

 

[Cryptic]

Media is demanding answers now.

The families need to be gently told that there is no way those demands can be met. NTSB investigations for even small (as in truly small, Cessna type crashes) can take 6 months or more. Large passenger plane crashes can take 12 months and more.

 

[Cryptic]

It does appear that the helicopter pilot probably misjudged the distance and speed, possibly even the size of the plane as well.

That is a possibility. At night, there are fewer visual references for the eyes and the mind to use when judging speed, size and distance.

 

[Jade]

I thought about that and I agree , however I'm thinking the reporter would've asked him before videoing -- if it was ok to speak to him, on record ?
And maybe the husband didn't yet know for sure or was in shock and said 'yes', he'd be willing to answer some questions.

I can't imagine being in this poor man's place -- but part of me might want to talk to a reporter and get my questions out there --- as in, hypothetically speaking -- "WHY did this happen and I want to know if anyone was at fault, I want answers and if there was carelessness that led to this tragedy, someone needs to be held responsible, etc. ?
Not like the reporter knew much yet, but in his line of work he may be able to ask the husbands' questions for him.
There are military pressers going to happen for the helicopter crew, one would assume, and also pressers addressing the army's side of this disaster, correct ?
We've been told the chopper crew wasn't inexperienced.

So that reporter could maybe get into one and speak for him.
Just throwing that out there, and hope it made sense.

Man reveals chilling last words with wife on doomed flight

A man whose wife was on the doomed American Airlines Flight 5342 showed a reporter his heartbreaking final texts to her before the crash.

www.dailymail.co.uk

From this link ^^^ here's a reaction from that reporter who spoke to Raza :

The WUSA reporter has described his conversation with Raza as 'one of the most heartbreaking interviews of my professional career'.

Omo.

Thank you for posting this.

Our community has had two devastating tornados and we are the sort to freely tell it all to the reporters so the comments felt kind of hurtful for him.

I would much rather heard the husband and be able to pray for him than the rhetoric butting in before the bodies have even been recovered.

Media is demanding answers now.

So? They get what's available and ready for dissemination.

I really don't understand how the media demanding answers is a consideration at all at this point.


all imo

 

[indicolite22]

5) ATC contacted Black Hawk a minute or so before collision to make sure they had visuals on AA 5342. But I did not hear a confirmation from Black Hawk to ATC. (or did I miss something?)

SBM. The Black Hawk might have been using a different frequency to communicate with ATC.

 

[Charlot123]

Some suggest that the helicopter pilot was monitoring a different CRJ that was taking off at the time. If only ATC told him the direction which the conflicting traffic was coming from.

ATC can be compared with the traffic light. (It was bad when we didn’t have them, but they can’t correct for everyone.) Say, there is the main road with the main traffic light, and a side merging one with own traffic light. Naturally, they are not synchronous because the merging traffic has moments to enter the main road. If the driver is on the merging road, it is his responsibility to look at the correct light, the one for him. If he has poor vision, dirty windows or gets disoriented in low lighting, he shouldn’t be driving unless he fixes the issues. If the pilot got disoriented in poor light condition there is always the way out, but it is not to fly over the airport.

Common sense. Asian New Year started yesterday. You see it everywhere. It is a lunar holiday starting with the New moon = poor lighting. Every year. For centuries. Choose your night to fly. As opposed to Passover (full moon) and Easter (the next Sunday after that).

 

[indicolite22]

It does appear that the helicopter pilot probably misjudged the distance and speed, possibly even the size of the plane as well.

IMO they did not see the CRJ. They probably would/could have avoided it if they did. The CRJ could not change its course quickly.

 

[DS2021]

Theres confirmation on the Livingston sisters

Figure-Skating Sisters Everly and Alydia Livingston, Ages 11 and 14, Among the Victims of American Airlines Plane Crash

A pair of sisters ages 11 and 14 are reportedly among the victims who died on the American Airlines plane that collided with a U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopter in Washington, D.C.

people.com

Figure skaters Everly and Alydia Livingston, ages 11 and 14 years old, are reportedly among the victims of the Jan. 29 American Airlines plane crash.

The girls were members of the Washington Figure Skating Club and often shared their figure skating routines on social media.
One sister's skating partner and her coach are also reportedly among the victims of the crash

Other victims of the crash were members of the Washington Figure Skating Club and the University of Delaware Figure Skating Club, as well as the Skating Club of Northern Virginia.

 

[Charlot123]

Agree, certainly there was a series of mistakes that occurred here. Not just one. It is well known that ATC is overwhelmed and lots of upgrades are necessary and long past due. Hopefully we can get this done.

I am not a pilot, but I think the committee has to do three things, to look at the situation physically from the cabin of another JRC approaching landing at Reagan at night in similar conditions; then, from the standpoint of the ATC and finally, from the cabin of the black hawk because I read they have a very different field of view and no TCAS. Then they’ll see the weakest link. JMO - no one planned this, I can bet it was not a conspiracy, one of the three sides seems to have made a mistake but perhaps there was a certain disadvantage for them.

 

[Joe Friday]

NTSB to hold a media briefing at 2:45 p.m. ET today on its investigation into yesterday’s mid-air collision involving a PSA Airlines Bombardier CRJ700 airplane and a Sikorsky H-60 military helicopter near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. Briefing will be held at the historic lobby in Terminal 1 at DCA.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885020145501790527

 

[vls12345]

As many as fourteen figure skaters feared dead.

Six on the flight were from the same club in Boston - two skaters, two coaches, two mothers.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/live-updates-plane-crashes-potomac-river-collision-helicopter-reagan-n-rcna189942/rcrd71196?canonicalCard=true

This is a really nice interview & the CEO of the Boston Skating Club shares some nice memories of the people from their club who were killed in this crash. Thanks for posting it.

ETA: I'm not sure I quoted the correct post & it may have been a different post of yours, @iamshadow21. For those who want to watch the interview I mention it is here: 2 figure skaters from The Skating Club of Boston, their mothers and coaches among D.C. plane crash victims

 

[steeltowngirl]

"Doomed Black Hawk helicopter's call sign
sparks fresh mystery following DC plane crash.

View attachment 561554

The Black Hawk was marked as a PAT 25,
which stands for priority air transport
and is usually reserved for when the Army is conducting VIP missions,
such as having officials onboard.

The Army
has confirmed no officials were onboard the aircraft,
which was carrying three soldiers, a standard sized crew."

Black Hawk helicopter's call sign sparks mystery following DC crash

The military aircraft was conducting a training flight, but some aren't buying it due to the priority call sign and the experience that is required of Black Hawk pilots

www.dailymail.co.uk

May not be much of a mystery. I’m guessing it may be protocol in a VIP mission training exercise to replicate the same conditions and scenarios that would be utilized in a live operation - including the use of actual call numbers as priority air transport. Basically, like a final rehearsal.

jmo

 

[Charlot123]

What I think we know now:
1) Flight AA 5342 was given clearance to change from runway 1 to runway 33 which is further north and east.
2) Black Hawk came in from the land mass between Potomac and Washington Channel basically heading south
3) Flight path shows AA 5342 veering left towards runway 33 about a half a mile north of the "regular" runway 1.
4) Flight AA 5342 did not change its trajectory. Angled semicircle to line up with RW 1.
5) ATC contacted Black Hawk a minute or so before collision to make sure they had visuals on AA 5342. But I did not hear a confirmation from Black Hawk to ATC. (or did I miss something?)
6) The two collided in the Potomac about an eight of a mile from runway 33.

What I think I would like to know:
1) Did the Black Hawk ever acknowledge the message from ATC that they were supposed to look out for the air craft?
2) Assuming I was correct in seeing 2 planes lined behind AA 5342 to the south, was there also maybe a previous plane ahead of AA 5342 that landed ahead of AA 5342 but on runway 1 and thus maybe the Black Hawk thought that is the way that AA 5342 would go? I know this is not how it is supposed to work leaving way too much to chance.
3) Did the Black Hawk have a collision avoidance system and was it on or is it turned off when they go into night vision mode? Also, is there a black box for the helicopter that could shed light on cockpit voice communications and sounds?
4) Why (allegedly) did the ATC give such short notice to the Black Hawk. Was it because he got a warning on his radar system?

I am just like everyone that wants to know the answers and will just have to wait to see what the conclusion is when all the evidence is known and documented.

Here is all about TCAS

Here’s What Air Traffic Collision Avoidance Systems Can And Can’t Do

While the Traffic Collision Avoidance System, or TCAS, was introduced as a backup to help prevent mid-air collisions, it has its limitations. While the Traffic Collision Avoidance System, or TCAS, was introduced as a backup to help prevent mid-air collisions, it has its limitations.

www.twz.com

(spoiler alert: no, because they flew at 200-400 feet and at least 1000 feet of vertical separation is required for TCAS).

I would like to know if Black Hawk was flying with transponders switched on because if they were switched off, it made it invisible on the radar.

 

[Jade]

.

 

[RexLuther]

SBM. The Black Hawk might have been using a different frequency to communicate with ATC.

The video below includes the audio between the tower and PAT25 where the helicopter pilot confirms visual with the plane and seeks approval to pass.

.

 

[Seattle1]

This one is very sad for me, so I work at the Springfield Branson Airport and I fuel UH 60 Blackhawks daily. From watching videos and listening to ATC, it almost sounds like the Blackhawk crossed into the path of the PSA. The blackhawk was told to maintain visual separation, so I am not sure if they got disoriented somehow or what.

I'm very sorry for you and your colleagues @AirForceVet24.

I won't be surprised if the UH 60 had eyes on the aircraft that just departed and not the approaching CRJ.

On the EarthCam-- we see the same, the first plane in our view departed Reagan and seconds later we see the doomed CRJ followed by the sparks in the sky (i.e., the midair collision) -- and then it's simply gone.

Also, we know the CRJ plane had initially been cleared to land on runway 1. But an air traffic controller asked the flight crew if they could use runway 33 instead.

Runway Change

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Here is all about TCAS

Here’s What Air Traffic Collision Avoidance Systems Can And Can’t Do

While the Traffic Collision Avoidance System, or TCAS, was introduced as a backup to help prevent mid-air collisions, it has its limitations. While the Traffic Collision Avoidance System, or TCAS, was introduced as a backup to help prevent mid-air collisions, it has its limitations.

www.twz.com

(spoiler alert: no, because they flew at 200-400 feet and 1000 feet of vertical separation is required).

I would like to know if Black Hawk was flying with transponders switched on because if they were switched off, it made it invisible on the radar.

The VASAviation videos I linked up thread show the ADS-B data for both aircraft up to the point of impact.