Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

[MAMABEAR]

Thanks. Was that the one that said rents? That was the first time I had seen that term in texting and I remember it because of he neighbor's account of the yelling. She was saying she needed a place to stay, rents were being unreasonable....I thought it may have been Lee. I wish I had saved it.

SO! You do know that when texting now/a/days rents means parents?

 

[cecybeans]

Little late here, but ITA with your assessment, PattyCake. That's why George could just go onto work, and leave Cindy to clean the car.

They knew KC did it, when they got the car back. That's also why Cindy didn't call LE to report both Casey & Caylee as missing.

The thinking was: car smells, KC really did something to Caylee. Gotta go find her as soon as I clean up whatever evidence is here. MOO, but it does make a lot of sense. LOL

I hope this isn't too OT, but I believe CA says she went back to work right away after they picked up the car and GA was there until a bit after she got back.

Correct me if I am too far off but, Cindy got back to work I believe some time after 2 or 2:30 (right after picking up the car) and told her coworkers, who in turn told her to go back home but she insisted she had work to do. Her supervisor eventually told her to go home - maybe after an hour or so? She could have gotten home by say 4 or 4:30 at the latest.

GA didn't clock in to work until around 5:30 IIRC, so IMO he was there for an hour or so BY HIMSELF before CA got back and went into washing machine - tracking-down-KC mode.

 

[LancelotLink]

SO! You do know that when texting now/a/days rents means parents?

I do indeed. And in Casey's case it would have to mean parents, coz we know she wasn't paying any rent...:blowkiss:

 

[Duckley]

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but Cindy said in her depo there was no fight. The main source of info here is from Casey - but we cant really trust anything she says. Do the neighbours absolutely confirm the fight on the 15th?

 

[Leila]

What neighbor is saying he heard a fight on the 15th? It certainly can't be Brian B because he wasn't even home. He arrived home from vacation on the 16th about 6pm. (docs Pg. 1386) Now maybe he heard the tussle between her and dad over the gas cans. I see no reason to think Cindy was lying saying there was no fight on the 15th.

As for the timing suggested for the alleged fight, the average 2-3 year old sleeps 12 hours a night. My older boys slept up to 15 hours a night and my youngest slept only 9-10 hours at that age. Now, considering Casey was on the phone till 3:30 am and the first check of voice mail was 7:45 I would assume Caylee woke her up after only 4 hours of sleep wanting breakfast. This leads me to believe that she likely was just getting ready and tucked into be about 9:30 pm. That would be 10 hours of sleep. A quick look at her cell usage the days before this looks like Caylee was tucked into bed closer to 9-10pm and woke up about 8-8:30, a reasonable nights sleep. I don't see anything different in the phone usage those previous nights. If she had in fact, had a huge fight at 9:30 and was on the phone right after it isn't very likely she wouldn't have said something to Tony about it and I read nothing in his statement to imply she was upset that night.

Early in the case, Greta Van Susteran covered the case every night on her program, "On The Record." She had former Los Angeles detective, Mark Fuhrman, there in Orlando reporting from on the scene. It was sometime in July or very early August that Mark Fuhrman reported that he had spoken to neighbors and a neighbor reported that he/she heard a big fight on Fathers Day with Casey using a lot of foul language.

It was during this time frame that Mark Fuhrman reported that he had learned that Casey had borrowed a shovel from a neighbor on June 18th.

 

[jjgram]

Early in the case, Greta Van Susteran covered the case every night on her program, "On The Record." She had former Los Angeles detective, Mark Fuhrman, there in Orlando reporting from on the scene. It was sometime in July or very early August that Mark Fuhrman reported that he had spoken to neighbors and a neighbor reported that he/she heard a big fight on Fathers Day with Casey using a lot of foul language.

It was during this time frame that Mark Fuhrman reported that he had learned that Casey had borrowed a shovel from a neighbor on June 18th.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
thanks 'L'
God Bless!
jjgram

 

[eddeva]

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but Cindy said in her depo there was no fight. The main source of info here is from Casey - but we cant really trust anything she says. Do the neighbours absolutely confirm the fight on the 15th?

the neighbours don't have a date for the fight duckley and one school of thought is that the BIG fight took place about a week earlier than the 15th.

 

[ibyoungr]

I hope this isn't too OT, but I believe CA says she went back to work right away after they picked up the car and GA was there until a bit after she got back.

Correct me if I am too far off but, Cindy got back to work I believe some time after 2 or 2:30 (right after picking up the car) and told her coworkers, who in turn told her to go back home but she insisted she had work to do. Her supervisor eventually told her to go home - maybe after an hour or so? She could have gotten home by say 4 or 4:30 at the latest.

GA didn't clock in to work until around 5:30 IIRC, so IMO he was there for an hour or so BY HIMSELF before CA got back and went into washing machine - tracking-down-KC mode.

I remember this the same as you.

 

[kew17]

I'm a bit confused. Are you talking June here? Because phone pings show Casey was at the Anthony home everynight until Friday when she went to Fusion and then TonE's till about 4am when she goes home.

Thanks SuziQ, I was rather vague & apologize. To elaborate on my thoughts: that first week of June CA was on vacation, leaving KC lots of time to play while CA babysat when she went to her (non) job. Yes, she did "ping at home" at night, however, her party life was rock'n. Wed, she was at Voyage, Friday at Fusion and overnight with TL, then Sat. night with RM and again on Monday the 9th. This week seems like musical boyfriends while making the break from RM to TL and then still hangs/sleeps with RM.

The 2nd week of the month starts with her staying the night at RM on Monday. On either Mon, Tues or Wed, Caylee answers the door at Tony's and is seen unattended on the patio while KC is in TL's room.

I'm just say'n...she had quite an active week leading to a possible 7th, 8th or 9th blowout with CA that could have re-ignited on the reported 15th blowout. ** Interesting to note that the neighbor interviewed spoke of two (2) instances where she witnessed an argument on the outside of the Anthony's. I'm think'n these 2 dates were the 9th and the 15th.

 

[Bluebelle]

wow! You made my brain jerk to that direction. The whole post. Wouldn't it be bad if---omg----if CA killed the baby in the fight---maybe did it together. She kicks KC out of the house---later hids baby in firewell of trunk---KC riddin around not knowing what that smell was.

In the mean time---she starts to party---thinkin that CA has the baby----party--party---car smellin worse---throws trash in there to make it smell better---half cleans it and sprays it. Then when she can't stand it any longer she parks it and just walks off.

Mamabear, I've been thinking ... this scenario could be what the defense comes out swinging with, that Cindy is the one who killed Caylee after trying to choke Casey then somehow put Caylee in the trunk. Maybe Casey will say her mother beat her as a child & used chloroform or drugs on her, and that Cindy would bind her up with duct tape as punishment when she got in trouble. Cindy had same access to everything as Casey - house, computers, car, duct tape, heart stickers, laundry bag, Pooh blankie, etc. And they could show video of Cindy's violent outbursts of screaming & yelling, running around with hammers & bats, physically going after ZG at the depo... not that anyone would believe it, but blaming Cindy would not surprise me at all with Jose & Casey dearest!!

 

[jjgram]

Thanks SuziQ, I was rather vague & apologize. To elaborate on my thoughts: that first week of June CA was on vacation, leaving KC lots of time to play while CA babysat when she went to her (non) job. Yes, she did "ping at home" at night, however, her party life was rock'n. Wed, she was at Voyage, Friday at Fusion and overnight with TL, then Sat. night with RM and again on Monday the 9th. This week seems like musical boyfriends while making the break from RM to TL and then still hangs/sleeps with RM.

The 2nd week of the month starts with her staying the night at RM on Monday. On either Mon, Tues or Wed, Caylee answers the door at Tony's and is seen unattended on the patio while KC is in TL's room.

I'm just say'n...she had quite an active week leading to a possible 7th, 8th or 9th blowout with CA that could have re-ignited on the reported 15th blowout. ** Interesting to note that the neighbor interviewed spoke of two (2) instances where she witnessed an argument on the outside of the Anthony's. I'm think'n these 2 dates were the 9th and the 15th.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Those are some ~i m p o r t a n t facts to think about !:waitasec:
Thanks !

God BLess !
jjgram

 

[ibyoungr]

Mamabear, I've been thinking ... this scenario could be what the defense comes out swinging with, that Cindy is the one who killed Caylee after trying to choke Casey then somehow put Caylee in the trunk. Maybe Casey will say her mother beat her as a child & used chloroform or drugs on her, and that Cindy would bind her up with duct tape as punishment when she got in trouble. Cindy had same access to everything as Casey - house, computers, car, duct tape, heart stickers, laundry bag, Pooh blankie, etc. And they could show video of Cindy's violent outbursts of screaming & yelling, running around with hammers & bats, physically going after ZG at the depo... not that anyone would believe it, but blaming Cindy would not surprise me at all with Jose & Casey dearest!!

The defense will throw Cindy under the bus. Do not think they will get away with this scenario because of Lee's testimony/interview and GA stating Casey was last seen with Caylee.

Cindy is going to have a bombshell when this is all over...

 

[MAMABEAR]

Mamabear, I've been thinking ... this scenario could be what the defense comes out swinging with, that Cindy is the one who killed Caylee after trying to choke Casey then somehow put Caylee in the trunk. Maybe Casey will say her mother beat her as a child & used chloroform or drugs on her, and that Cindy would bind her up with duct tape as punishment when she got in trouble. Cindy had same access to everything as Casey - house, computers, car, duct tape, heart stickers, laundry bag, Pooh blankie, etc. And they could show video of Cindy's violent outbursts of screaming & yelling, running around with hammers & bats, physically going after ZG at the depo... not that anyone would believe it, but blaming Cindy would not surprise me at all with Jose & Casey dearest!!

Scary, huh?

 

[MAMABEAR]

The defense will throw Cindy under the bus. Do not think they will get away with this scenario because of Lee's testimony/interview and GA stating Casey was last seen with Caylee.

Cindy is going to have a bombshell when this is all over...

What you mean? Bombshell? Like a "tell all moment"?

 

[Kathy1964]

There is more than one neighbor, that's the only one we've seen a statement from so far.

I see only 2 neighbors on the witness list as of Dec 2008. JC, who lives across the street and heard those 2 fights in the As driveway, and BB next door who loaned KC the shovel. So, unless family or friends reported a fight, it looks like that is all. I didn't go back and read BB's interview, but I don't remember him reporting hearing any fight.
Here's that witness list:

http://www.legalstoc.com/2009/01/26/casey-anthony-prosecution-witness-list/

Is there a more recent list?

 

[cyberborg]

Mamabear, I've been thinking ... this scenario could be what the defense comes out swinging with, that Cindy is the one who killed Caylee after trying to choke Casey then somehow put Caylee in the trunk. Maybe Casey will say her mother beat her as a child & used chloroform or drugs on her, and that Cindy would bind her up with duct tape as punishment when she got in trouble. Cindy had same access to everything as Casey - house, computers, car, duct tape, heart stickers, laundry bag, Pooh blankie, etc. And they could show video of Cindy's violent outbursts of screaming & yelling, running around with hammers & bats, physically going after ZG at the depo... not that anyone would believe it, but blaming Cindy would not surprise me at all with Jose & Casey dearest!!

I agree that the Defense has to go after CA and can do so most plausibly. Especially given the ZFG depo where she is so angry and non cooperative -- why? -- self implication?

KC can even say that Zanny is CA and that she was scared to implicate her own Mother, that's why she was afraid to call 911 and the family was threatened (by implication). KC was protecting CA.

I think it is the only 'out' that the Defense has, to go after CA and I had proposed a 'double jeopardy' theory where CA is implicated at first so there is reasonable doubt and KC goes free then, belated evidence is brought out at CA's trial that points directly at KC. Et voila!!!

 

[SuziQ]

I see only 2 neighbors on the witness list as of Dec 2008. JC, who lives across the street and heard those 2 fights in the As driveway, and BB next door who loaned KC the shovel. So, unless family or friends reported a fight, it looks like that is all. I didn't go back and read BB's interview, but I don't remember him reporting hearing any fight.
Here's that witness list:

http://www.legalstoc.com/2009/01/26/casey-anthony-prosecution-witness-list/

Is there a more recent list?

The witness list has been added to several times and is still being added to.

ETA: there was a new witness list submitted this week, although it hasn't been made public yet.

ETA: also, wasn't that one of Baez' big complaints about the SA's office? That the SA wasn't completing their witness list in a timely manner?

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks SuziQ, I was rather vague & apologize. To elaborate on my thoughts: that first week of June CA was on vacation, leaving KC lots of time to play while CA babysat when she went to her (non) job. Yes, she did "ping at home" at night, however, her party life was rock'n. Wed, she was at Voyage, Friday at Fusion and overnight with TL, then Sat. night with RM and again on Monday the 9th. This week seems like musical boyfriends while making the break from RM to TL and then still hangs/sleeps with RM.

The 2nd week of the month starts with her staying the night at RM on Monday. On either Mon, Tues or Wed, Caylee answers the door at Tony's and is seen unattended on the patio while KC is in TL's room.

I'm just say'n...she had quite an active week leading to a possible 7th, 8th or 9th blowout with CA that could have re-ignited on the reported 15th blowout. ** Interesting to note that the neighbor interviewed spoke of two (2) instances where she witnessed an argument on the outside of the Anthony's. I'm think'n these 2 dates were the 9th and the 15th.

Ah ok, I getcha now.

 

[carrie]

Cindy may have been sooo angry she welcomed the time to think about exactly what she was going to say to her daughter. If someone is caring for your 2yo and they call you on your cell, most Mothers answer immediately in my experience. The fact KC was unavailable, on what is usually considered a family day, coupled with the fact it took her hours to return CA's call, may have just added fuel to the fire that started with speaking to Shirley about the stolen check. If Cindys point was KC was an irresponsible and unfit Mother, letting her prove it once again, may have been what Cindy was aiming for.

(Bolding above by me)

You know, you're exactly right about that. I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out. I think it gives some insight into KC's perception of her role as Caylee's mother.

When my daughters were small, if someone was babysitting (which didn't happen often b/c there just wasn't anyone in my life I could drop my children off with - my mother was sick, MIL lived out of state, and I think it was better for me and my girls in the long run) - -sorry, OT, anyway, if someone had my child and they called, I cannot imagine not returning the call asap. The fact that KC didn't is telling IMO. It seems as if she felt more like Caylee's sister.

 

[Leila]

:clap: :clap: :clap:
thanks 'L'
God Bless!
jjgram

You're welcome..........and God Bless you!

I miss Mark Fuhrman's input on this case........he does his own investigative work and pays attention to detail.