Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

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  • #141
Not trying to start a religious discussion, but religion is part of this familys' life and many other folks, too. God says the life is in the blood. If the heart still beats then there is life even if it is through technology. God gave us technology, so imo, the hospital should keep people on support if the family wishes. If the brain won't work and death from system shutdown will take place in days, then respect their wishes, and let their God decide since this technology is already in place.

I'm not familiar with exactly what religion this family is, but does it not include anything after death ("heaven" for lack of a better term)? Because I certainly would wish for the afterlife for my child rather than her body on a ventilator with no hope of recovery.
 
  • #142
I'm not familiar with exactly what religion this family is, but does it not include anything after death ("heaven" for lack of a better term)? Because I certainly would wish for the afterlife for my child rather than her body on a ventilator with no hope of recovery.

The family is Baptist. I would not want to be on a ventilator nor would I want a loved one to be on one, but this family still wants her here and are hoping for some sort of miracle. Donating her organs would be a miracle for someone else for Christmas.

Several articles have stated that the grandmother is a nurse at Kaiser Oakland, I would think she understands brain death, but maybe just too close to home.
 
  • #143
Not trying to start a religious discussion, but religion is part of this familys' life and many other folks, too. God says the life is in the blood. If the heart still beats then there is life even if it is through technology. God gave us technology, so imo, the hospital should keep people on support if the family wishes. If the brain won't work and death from system shutdown will take place in days, then respect their wishes, and let their God decide since this technology is already in place.

How do we know that God didn't already decide? Maybe the technology is just making people slower to accept God's decision.

One of the doctors in the discussion that was linked earlier said that life support at this point prolongs death, not life.
 
  • #144
It seems like different people gave different opinions, and it's just imo that God would have already caused her heart to fail after the ventilator was started if it were his timing.
 
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  • #148
The wording of the hospital in the above article is so disturbing. The guy say no way will she " come back to life" or " recover from death". I get what is meant by brain failure, but if these words are used when dealing with families, no wonder there are problems.
 
  • #149
I, as a mother, would NEVER keep my DS "alive" in this condition - EVER. I am sorry, but I am just not that SELFISH. As a Christian - GOD gave me this boy, GOD can take him home whenever He feels the need to. I believe that we all have a purpose, if mine has been met - I go, if his has been met - He goes. Just as simple as that. And I/we are at peace with this.

Where do people get that "we can live forever" syndrome??????

It is just too bad that technology has progressed so far, that it can keep a dead body alive until infinity...

ETA - ALL of my FAMILY are ATTORNEYS - And I wouldn't call one of them....Stuff happens, it's called LIFE.
 
  • #150
The wording of the hospital in the above article is so disturbing. The guy say no way will she " come back to life" or " recover from death". I get what is meant by brain failure, but if these words are used when dealing with families, no wonder there are problems.

I think the hospital is trying to explain that the child is brain dead and can not be brought back to life. So the family doesn't have false hopes.
 
  • #151
I, as a mother, would NEVER keep my DS "alive" in this condition - EVER. I am sorry, but I am just not that SELFISH. As a Christian - GOD gave me this boy, GOD can take him home whenever He feels the need to. I believe that we all have a purpose, if mine has been met - I go, if his has been met - He goes. Just as simple as that. And I/we are at peace with this.

Where do people get that "we can live forever" syndrome??????

It is just too bad that technology has progressed so far, that it can keep a dead body alive until infinity...

ETA - ALL of my FAMILY are ATTORNEYS - And I wouldn't call one of them....Stuff happens, it's called LIFE.

I'm an atheist and feel the same way. Every living thing must die. That child is no longer "living" .... But she's not my child and I feel nothing but compassion for her family and sadness at their inability to let her go.


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  • #152
But you just have to "let" them go....It's not about us, it is about them! JMO...
 
  • #153
Not trying to start a religious discussion, but religion is part of this familys' life and many other folks, too. God says the life is in the blood. If the heart still beats then there is life even if it is through technology. God gave us technology, so imo, the hospital should keep people on support if the family wishes. If the brain won't work and death from system shutdown will take place in days, then respect their wishes, and let their God decide since this technology is already in place.

If there wasn't a question of limited resources then I would agree with you. But the reality is that there are only so many ICU beds, ventilators, nursing staff, etc. Additionally, all these things cost money. Who is to pay if in every case of brain death the hospital is required to keep the body hooked up to machines until multiple organ failure occurs? The family? The hospital? The taxpayers? Should these extensive measures be taken for every patient, or only for the ones whose family goes to the media or gets a lawyer? What if the bed, the ventilator, the nurses are needed to care for someone who has a chance to live? Does that person lose his or her chance to receive life-saving care because brain-dead bodies are being kept alive until the last organ system breaks down?

I feel horrible for Jahi's family, but their daughter is never going to 'spark awake' or come back to them. At a certain point, it is selfish to use limited medical resources in a hopeless cause (IMO, of course.)

I just hope brain-dead bodies don't feel any pain. :(
 
  • #154
I truly feel sorry for this family, but I am bothered by the fact that an attorney is assisting them in this and not their minister. If you feel God can heal your child, an attorney, media interviews and a march outside the hospital is not the way to go.
Death is a part of life, God does not ask us when will the time be right. We respect his will. No amount of money won from the hospital will make them feel better, I'm afraid it will only make other families go this route.
This child died and a machine is pumping oxygen into her body. That is not life. It would kill me to watch this happen.
 
  • #155
Imo, nothing that's going on right now has to do with faith or God or miracles. It's got to do with damages allocated to pain and suffering. The longer you "live" the higher they are. Period.

I thought I read that pain and suffering damages are limited to $250K in California. (?)

I agree that all of the actions and legal maneuvering are not about faith or miracles.

I also don't think that the mother's interpretation in the article that Jahi is "responding to her touch" is accurate. People who are brain dead no longer respond to any stimulation, and they don't "posture" (decerebrate or decorticate) anymore.

IDK if the family would even consider organ donation now due to the circumstances unfolding, but as time goes on there is less and less likelihood that she could be a donor due to deterioration of the organs. She has already sustained a cardiac arrest, so it's very unlikely she could be a heart or lung donor. All that would have to be coordinated with the coroner's office. This case will definitely be a coroner's case, and I can imagine that the mother is going to be very sad and angry with the idea of an autopsy for her baby girl. But there is no way around it in this situation.

It is just such a sad case. The family really needs some intense counseling and professional support from people they trust to explain to them in terms they can understand that there is no hope for Jahi waking up, or even living in her current condition for much longer.

I agree with Swamp Mama's posts above that any kind of public "demonstration" inside or outside the hospital is definitely not appropriate, and will not achieve anything other than causing headaches and problems for the staff, patients, and parents. (And the police, who will have to monitor the situation.) A vigil would be best at another location, such as a church.

I also want to add that I am bothered by the continued description by the mom and the media that this was a "routine" tonsillectomy. I read in one article that she was a planned ICU admit from before the surgery began, which adds a significant new layer to the discussion about what happened.

I really question how much the mother understood about what was planned for Jahi's surgery, and how much she understood about Jahi's risks. This was not a routine case, and Jahi was very high risk. There seems to be no acknowledgement of this in media articles. The only reason I can think of, is that perhaps no one is mentioning Jahi as high risk because it would seem too much like "blaming the victim" for her size, and add more pain for the family.
 
  • #156
The little girls body will continue to deteriorate while artificial means are used to keep her heart beating. Knowing this, I couldn't do this to the body of a loved one.

Imagine, with modern day technology, how many people could be artificially kept on machines with zero chance of life.

Society can't just pick and choose what families are going to be accommodated, that don't want to let their loved ones go. Who is going to care for these bodies and where?

The family has ask for a feeding tube. What other procedures could be ask for and just where does society draw the line?

This is why procedures were created long ago, otherwise we would need many facilities and medical providers that specifically cared for bodies on machines.

It's just my opinion, but I find it somewhat cruel to do this to the body of a loved one. Instead, I would want them to rest in peace. I don't find these methods "peaceful".

I don't care for the rallying of the public either, as they are most likely not informed or educated on these matters. If they were, they may have chose, to provide comfort to the family during this difficult time, instead of encouraging them to have false hope.

From an emotional standpoint, it would be terribly difficult to be in the families shoes. It is heart breaking to think about loosing a child and letting go anytime of the year, but especially during the holidays. After the holidays, I hope that the family is able to make a informed decision.

I wouldn't want to be in another persons shoes (judge, hospital, etc.) where I had to tell family that this is what we have to do, whether you agree with it or not.
 
  • #157
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...ctor-to-Review-Brain-Dead-Teen-237021531.html

As crowds gathered in front of Children's Hospital to rally for the family of the 8th grader shouting "Keep Jahi Alive," Alameda County Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo chose Dr. Paul Graham Fisher, a neuro-oncologist at Stanford School of Medicine to determine whether the 8th grader shows any signs of life.

Fisher is expected to present his findings to the court on Tuesday, and the judge will determine what happens next.
 
  • #158
How many people showed up for the rally? I haven't heard.

Hopefully, the mother can get counseling. Goodness knows, she needs it; I think we all know what the outcome will be from the court appointed neurologist. Very sad situation.
 
  • #159
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Oakland-8th-Grader-Brain-Dead-After-236015681.html

He said the scene was gruesome. “She was coughing up buckets of blood,” he said.

At the same time, Sealey said it appeared to the family as though the nursing staff had vanished during what seemed to be a shift change. In the family's minds, there didn't seem to be enough hospital staff in the room to help. The family started suctioning blood themselves; Jahi's grandmother, Sandra Chatman, is a nurse at another hospital.

“A 13-year-old should not have to suction herself,” Sealey said. “She had to use a suction machine to suction her own blood. Her mother and stepfather had to suction out her blood at points. None of them work for this hospital.”
 
  • #160
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