Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

[gngr~snap]

After the surgery, she (Jahi) was fine. She went into the recovery room. She was alert and talking, and she was asking for a Popsicle because she said her throat hurt. As part of the procedure, she was meant to spend the night in ICU,” Sealey said. “When she got moved to ICU, there was a 30-minute wait until any family member could go see her. Upon entry, they saw that there was way too much blood.”

http://whnt.com/2013/12/18/family-w...ort-for-girl-brain-dead-after-tonsil-surgery/

“She lost four pints of blood. She had to have four blood transfusions. She had two liters of blood pumped out of her lungs, not including what was in her stomach,” Sealey said. “There was an enormous amount of blood, and we kept asking, ‘Is this normal?’ Some nurses said I don’t know and some said yes. There was a lot of uncertainty and a lack of urgency.”

This almost sounds like DIC!
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/199627-clinical#showall



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[momrids6]

After the surgery, she (Jahi) was fine. She went into the recovery room. She was alert and talking, and she was asking for a Popsicle because she said her throat hurt. As part of the procedure, she was meant to spend the night in ICU,” Sealey said. “When she got moved to ICU, there was a 30-minute wait until any family member could go see her. Upon entry, they saw that there was way too much blood.”

http://whnt.com/2013/12/18/family-w...ort-for-girl-brain-dead-after-tonsil-surgery/

“She lost four pints of blood. She had to have four blood transfusions. She had two liters of blood pumped out of her lungs, not including what was in her stomach,” Sealey said. “There was an enormous amount of blood, and we kept asking, ‘Is this normal?’ Some nurses said I don’t know and some said yes. There was a lot of uncertainty and a lack of urgency.”

This almost sounds like DIC!
LINK TO FOLLOW

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CNN could not independently confirm the medical facts and timeline provided by Sealey.
Children’s Hospital & Research Center Oakland spokeswoman Melinda Krigel cited privacy laws when asked about the case.


The story in this article- complete with statements quoted from the Uncle, differs greatly from the other statements made about this time frame.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Jacie- I think the issue some of us are having with the family is that they are wanting things done TO this child as opposed to FOR her. Nothing they are asking for is going to benefit a brain-dead child. Nothing will improve her condition. Sadly

Thanks, MMJ. With all of the days at the hospital and medical treatments that I have had in the last 5 months, I want an outcome that doesn't hurt the parents so deeply. I fought so hard to be cancer free that I think others fight that hard, as well. Maybe just too emotional for me.

 

[Kaliste]

Someone clear this up for me please. From the family/atty letter released tonight:

"Sam Singer, spokesman for Children's Hospital Oakland, said the family is being misled by their attorney, saying he has created a false impression that the teen could recover from her vegetative state."

I thought the hospitals official stance is that Jahi is brain dead and NOT just in a vegetative state? Brain dead and a vegetative state are very different, correct?

 

[SeekingJana]

I don't know if the nurse actually asked the family or the patient herself to suction out her mouth.
I can say with a relative amount of certainty that the suction instrument which was attached to the suction tubing and wall suction was probably a tonsil suction catheter. I mean no disrespect, but with her size, it would be an appropriate suction device to put just inside her lips to remove secretions without having to swallow.
Also, nurses and doctors do not want post- op pharyngeal surgery patients to swallow secretions. We need to see and accurately measure output.

I do not believe the nursing staff was negligent until I read the surgeon's report that they were negligent in their post op care of Jahi.
I think something beyond the scope of the nurses happened. Either before surgery ( as I brought up the possibility of her being accidentally anti-coagulated with aspirin for her throat pain and infections- some parents do not know how much aspirin a child is taking or if they are taking it at that age).

Also, there is a chance that the family really misused the suction apparatus and damaged the soft tissue in the operative area, causing an arterial bleed.

If anyone has seen one, it would be almost impossible to poke the curved, large rigid tonsil suction device down far enough to cause any damage. However, if a person not used to a tonsil suction apparatus DID attempt or was successful in the attempt to perform deep oropharyngeal or nasopharyngeal suction with the larger and more rigid catheter, they could cause severe harm.
Think of it as a dental suction, it goes only inside the edges of the mouth. It is meant to keep the patient from forcefully SPITTING as this is a trauma to surgical sites. NO deeper except in extremely rare hemorrhage situations with a surgeon and an anesthesiologist working on the patient.

 

[gngr~snap]

Someone clear this up for me please. From the family/atty letter released tonight:

"Sam Singer, spokesman for Children's Hospital Oakland, said the family is being misled by their attorney, saying he has created a false impression that the teen could recover from her vegetative state."

I thought the hospitals official stance is that Jahi is brain dead and NOT just in a vegetative state? Brain dead and a vegetative state are very different, correct?

Vegetative state I think can breathe on their own and blink.
Brain dead all the functions that we do unconciously/involuntarily (like continuing to breathe when we sleep) do not occur in brain death.
Moo
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/brain-death/Pages/Introduction.aspx
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[momrids6]

"Right now he is trying to broker release for Jahi to a facility that will see her as being worthy of feeding, caring for."

A deceased person cannot be fed! This is getting worse by the minute, imo. smh

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...-release-letter-addressing-critics?source=pkg

 

[cuffem]

Thanks, MMJ. With all of the days at the hospital and medical treatments that I have had in the last 5 months, I want an outcome that doesn't hurt the parents so deeply. I fought so hard to be cancer free that I think others fight that hard, as well. Maybe just too emotional for me.

Jacie,Glad to see you on here,I hope you are doing well.I have enjoyed reading your posts long before I joined.

 

[SeekingJana]

"Right now he is trying to broker release for Jahi to a facility that will see her as being worthy of feeding, caring for."

A deceased person cannot be fed! This is getting worse by the minute, imo. smh

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...-release-letter-addressing-critics?source=pkg

This is making me as sick as when Rhett Butler wouldn't let anyone bury poor Bonnie Blue Butler for days in GWTW.
What the hospital needs to do, IMO, is exactly what happened in the movie. Find one person, one nurse or social worker, who is bonded to the family or who can bond with them. Slowly lead the family to the final end of Jahi's life. No turning back, a team working together.

First they say they understand what they didn't formerly understand, now they want to feed a body with no brain activity? OMG, OMG.
A ventilator does not make a life. It's already gone, y'all.

In all my years in a hospital, I've never seen a family hold on to a person who was declared dead. Comatose, heck yes, frequently, but brain dead? NEVER!! And that includes infants and children.

 

[Trino]

Gofundme now has around $5500.00.

 

[momrids6]

It is not compassionate to give families false hope, Paris says. “What you really want to ask is not, ‘What should we do?' but [rather] 'What is going on? What’s happening? What is the reality?’ ” he says.

The reality in Jahi's case, he says, is “we have a dead child in the hospital. And what’s the appropriate response to a corpse? An appropriate disposition of the body. It’s not putting it on a ventilator and saying, ‘Maybe this will get better?’ ”

This may sound cold, he acknowledges, “but I think it is compassionate. It forces you to ask what do you really mean by life, and what do we really mean by death, and what are our belief systems?”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...specialist-to-assess-teen-declared-brain-dead

 

[SophieRose]

"Right now he is trying to broker release for Jahi to a facility that will see her as being worthy of feeding, caring for."

A deceased person cannot be fed! This is getting worse by the minute, imo. smh

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...-release-letter-addressing-critics?source=pkg

I can understand them being angry but they seem like they really want to punish the hospital for what happened.

 

[SeekingJana]

t is not compassionate to give families false hope, Paris says. “What you really want to ask is not, ‘What should we do?' but [rather] 'What is going on? What’s happening? What is the reality?’ ” he says.

The reality in Jahi's case, he says, is “we have a dead child in the hospital. And what’s the appropriate response to a corpse? An appropriate disposition of the body. It’s not putting it on a ventilator and saying, ‘Maybe this will get better?’ ”

This may sound cold, he acknowledges, “but I think it is compassionate. It forces you to ask what do you really mean by life, and what do we really mean by death, and what are our belief systems?”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...specialist-to-assess-teen-declared-brain-dead

Teaching is one of the most vital parts of a health care team's responsibility to a patient and family. Someone dropped the ball very early on, and they never picked it back up. OR the family was too upset to listen, in which case, they should have been separated and received one on one grief therapy until all the adults understood that Jahi was dead, with a breathing machine that needed to be unhooked and taken away.

The flat EEGs could have also been shown to the one nurse in the family. She should definitely understand what a flat lines means- there's no activity.

I have thought this has been about money- that the family has made it an international scandal and debate because of a desire to benefit from Jahi's death.
Now, I really think they aren't listening with their heads to the medical team, but to the attorney who is a in my opinion. HE is the one who will make money off this poor deceased child.

 

[Trino]

I can understand them being angry but they seem like they really want to punish the hospital for what happened.

At least, they seem to wish to gather public sympathy.

 

[Zuri]

I work in the pharmaceutical research industry. I know a lot when it comes to medicine and ethics. I have also conducted clinical trials out of CHO. I can tell you that I am appalled that this family has been given the RIGHT to create this much havoc. It also makes me scared of what ramifications this will hold on ethics and medicine in the future. Ethics committee approvals on clinical trials and patient consent/ascent are so closely monitored in the world of research-and even surgical procedures. I feel this dog and pony show created by Jahi's family is a recipe for disaster and is only "allowing" patients and families to push boundaries that may not be in the best interest of the patient.

Exactly. Totally agree. The best interest of this patient is not being considered IMO. What is being considered is what is in the best interest of the family. Normally, it doesn't work this way. Survivor guilt is huge. This mom has it big time. I know this hospital has grief counselors working with this family, provided they accepted their help. Prolonging her burial is truly truly not going to help.

 

[SophieRose]

Gofundme now has around $5500.00.

Well the $20k might get them a helicopter to Oakland Airport or SFO, but then they'll need a second round of funding for the private plane to take her to the Southland or to New York. Of course these would be part of medical costs recovered in a lawsuit.

 

[LinasK]

"Right now he is trying to broker release for Jahi to a facility that will see her as being worthy of feeding, caring for."

A deceased person cannot be fed! This is getting worse by the minute, imo. smh

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...-release-letter-addressing-critics?source=pkg

He means tube feeding- whether it is NG, G-Tube, or J-Tube. I'm not aware that a Death Certificate has been issued, her heart is still beating.

 

[shana]

Still not understanding that apart from the transpo costs, how the family is thinking Jahi's care in any facility will be covered. What insurance co will pay to 'treat' a dead person? Are the donors aware of this, let alone the facts of her condition? :-/

This case is not only disturbing, it is also setting the issue backwards in terms of 'general' understanding about Brain Death. That is always the bottom line, for me anyway.

I've not yet completed my 2013 donations, but first on my list is CHO!

~jmo~

 

[LinasK]

I can understand them being angry but they seem like they really want to punish the hospital for what happened.

And they should because of the Post-Op care Jahi received. I do hope they file for malpractice against Children's. Children's Hospital has long rested upon their reputation- but they screwed up another tonsillectomy two years ago- I posted it a couple of pages back.

 

[shana]

It is my understanding that her heart is beating ONLY because of the vent.

Please correct me if I am wrong. TIA!

~jmo~