Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

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  • #681
Maybe, but then why continue to until this current day? There’s new DAs, new LE, new judges. Is it a fear that finding an impartial jury would be impossible for such a high-profile case? Have successive DAs not found enough strength in the case, or have they been asked/pressured into not trying due to a bad light that could cast on previous DAs? Rhetorical questions, I’d just love to know the thought process of all that have been involved from day one to day now. Also would love to see what secret evidence there is that hasn’t been made public. Let’s hope any responsible parties are held accountable while(if) they still can be.
All imo.
I think this goes deep into the culture of Boulder, and powerful people protecting other wealthy powerful people.
Are there any legal gurus here who know the US laws about minors who commit manslaughter? Also, why PR and JR were found to be involved by the grand jury, but not charged? IMOO
 
  • #682
Judge Lowenbach also found and stated in his decision that Hunter did mislead the public and had no right to do so, and also had a legal obligation to disclose to the public that the GJ did vote to indict, based upon case law, statutes and Colorado’s Rules of Criminal Procedure.

I've read the verdict multiple times, and I can't find where Lowenbach says Hunter misled the public.
 
  • #683
I've read the verdict multiple times, and I can't find where Lowenbach says Hunter misled the public.
I quoted his comments in a news article in a post I made above.
 
  • #684
No, he didn't.



No,.he didn't. There was not enough evidence so he didn't charge. That was true then and is true now.

From Complete Colorado, author Craig Silverman:

Judge Lowenbach ruled that DA Alex Hunter had no right to hide the grand jury’s decision to indict, let alone to actively mislead the public. The true bills had to be disclosed based on case law, statutes and Colorado’s Rules of Criminal Procedure. In their book, The Death of Innocence, the Ramseys claimed clearance by the grand jury. Boulder DA Mary Lacy, who knew of the indictments, never mentioned it when she issued her “exoneration,” a move now belittled by Garnett.

I think it also bears mentioning that the charges the GJ did return indictments on had statutes of limitations attached, as do most indictments. Those expired during the time the indictments remained secret. Statutes of limitations are in place so that charges could still be filed within the timeframe allotted as seen fit. Of course in this case that very likely would not have happened anyway given Hunter's decision. Hunter's misleading the public into thinking no indictments were returned was also an act that closed the doors to any potential action being taken on those indictments. None of this was disclosed publicly until 13 years later. That's just wrong.
 
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  • #685
I quoted his comments in a news article in a post I made above.

Those weren't judge Lowenbach's comments. They were Craig Silverman's. The verdict does not state that Hunter misled the public, that's Silverman's original commentary. And based on his rant earlier in the texts, where he blames Democrats and liberals, I feel free to ignore his opinion.

But if you have a quote from Lowenbach stating the same I'd be happy to read it.
 
  • #686
Those weren't judge Lowenbach's comments. They were Craig Silverman's. The verdict does not state that Hunter misled the public, that's Silverman's original commentary. And based on his rant earlier in the texts, where he blames Democrats and liberals, I feel free to ignore his opinion.

But if you have a quote from Lowenbach stating the same I'd be happy to read it.
It was Craig Silverman quoting Judge Lowenbach.

Do you have proof he did not say that about the case and Alex Hunter? There are others here on this forum who are also aware of his comments as they were published.

A verdict does not require commentary from the judge. It's often made after the decision when the judge is asked to comment.

You are of course free to ignore.
 
  • #687
It was Craig Silverman quoting Judge Lowenbach.

He's not quoting the judge.

Do you have proof he did not say that about the case and Alex Hunter? There are others here on this forum who are also aware of his comments as they were published.

No one is saying that he said that. Not even Silverman. Silverman is interpreting the ruling. If he was quoting Lowenbach's words he would have said so. When he quotes the judgement he makes it perfectly clear.

A verdict does not require commentary from the judge. It's often made after the decision when the judge is asked to comment.

And yet he didn't make the comments you assigned to him.

You are of course free to ignore.

Silverman? Happy to, though I liked when Morrissey set him straight about the grand jury.
 
  • #688
IMO, I don't see anything wild about reviewing BRs school or medical records. Everyone is a suspect until they are eliminated. There is nothing in my child's records that I would need to suppress. If those records showed nothing to note, I'd be holding them up on a poster board to clear my child's name. Why did the Ramsey's always do the opposite of that that would have been helpful and in the best interest of the case?
Nope, I wouldn't because I would protect my child's privacy.
Your opinion IMO would not stand up in a court of law on this issue.
This is one area of the case that is not debated. It is an accepted fact that Jon Benet Ramsey was the victim of SA at least 10 days prior to her murder if not longer.
It is not accepted fact. It might be an accepted opinion but it's not an accepted fact because we don't know.
 
  • #689
He's not quoting the judge.



No one is saying that he said that. Not even Silverman. Silverman is interpreting the ruling. If he was quoting Lowenbach's words he would have said so. When he quotes the judgement he makes it perfectly clear.



And yet he didn't make the comments you assigned to him.



Silverman? Happy to, though I liked when Morrissey set him straight about the grand jury.
The comments were published. I didn't assign them, the author of the article did.

Did the judge ever come out and dispute the quote as published? Ask for a retraction because he didn't say that?
 
  • #690
Does anyone know where I can find the full interview with JR and PR where the interviewer (who I believe sounded British) asked about the BR theory and JR said something like BR was "average at sports". Their reaction to that question seemed so odd, it was clear they were nervous and uncomfortable.
 
  • #691
The comments were published. I didn't assign them, the author of the article did.

Did the judge ever come out and dispute the quote as published? Ask for a retraction because he didn't say that?
It isn't a quote. I don't know why you think it is. I have my issues with Silverman, but he doesn't pretend the judge actually said those words. And we have the judge's own words in the verdict and he says nothing of what you attribute to him, nor is he quoted anywhere else saying anything along those lines.

If the judge had given comments that a DA was misleading the people in one of the biggest cases ever, why hasn't anyone else noticed? No, this is Silverman's take on the verdict, nothing more, nothing less.
 
  • #692
They weren’t released because they ate typically statutorily sealed. See 2020 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 13 - Courts And Court Procedure :: Article 73. Statewide Grand Juries :: Section 13-73-107. Return of indictment or presentment - designation of venue consolidation of indictments - sealing of indictment.

“(2) The court, upon motion of the attorney general, shall order the indictment to be sealed and no person may disclose the existence of the indictment until the defendant is in custody or has been admitted to bail except when necessary for the issuance or execution of a warrant or summons.”



No, they couldn’t. They don’t bring or dismiss charges, DAs do. They could have issued a no true bill, (which they apparently did for 8 of the 12 potential charges), but not dismissed them.



But that does NOT mean that there was enough evidence to ‘win’ a trial. A grand jury’s burden of proof is ‘probable cause’. A trial jury’s burden is ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’. So while there may have been enough evidence to convince a grand jury there was smoke, that does not mean there was enough to convince a trial jury taht there was fire.

The Ramsey grand jurors who have commented on their experience over the years have basically all said that they understood why Hunter didn’t bring the case to trial.

I have difficulty believing some known or unknown intruder is the killer, but I can also believe that as intriguing/compelling/incomprehensible much of the evidence and/or the Ramseys’ behavior seems, that it still doesn’t rise to the level of ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’. To this day, the DNA/UM1 situation alone guarantees that.

The DNA defense is not good enough to save the Ramseys.

John Ramsey holds more power than any DA, judge or courtroom regarding the future of his family,
by simply telling the truth. It is monstrously wrong for him to leave his son JAR with the same enormous burden he himself has carried for so many years,
I sincerely hope John Ramsey tells the truth, before someone tells it for him, which will further destroy his family. It’s never too late. MOO
Nope, I wouldn't because I would protect my child's privacy.

It is not accepted fact. It might be an accepted opinion but it's not an accepted fact because we don't know.
It is a fact. JonBenet Ramsey was the victim of SA at least 10 prior to her murder and SA on the night of her murder. There are many experts in the field as well as forensics examiners who have confirmed this. An opinion is BDI.
 
  • #693
Off topic, I jump in and out of this thread and try to keep up but it can move fast! Only my 2 cents here - I've seen the debate in this thread about the intruder being impossible because no solid proven entry point.

I think intruder but not a "stranger intruder" so wouldn't need to break in via broken window, basement, etc. They knew how to get in without that as they knew their habits.

I think the person(s) is known or close to the family or possibly JR and wouldn't have had to break in. I think person(s) easily could have already been in the house or knew the family habits and routines enough, no forced entry was necessary. I guess I'm Team Intruder but more Known the Family Intruder! All MOO
 
  • #694
I think this goes deep into the culture of Boulder, and powerful people protecting other wealthy powerful people.
Are there any legal gurus here who know the US laws about minors who commit manslaughter? Also, why PR and JR were found to be involved by the grand jury, but not charged? IMOO
This won’t answer your question- not a legal guru- but one of the indictments to both John and Patsy is about “accessory” that they knew the assailant etc. Accessory is after the fact (murder). Cover up clean up.

Who would John and Patsy help after a crime - to hide evidence of a crime? The mailman? Santa Claus?….I think not. Who is the GJ alluding to? IMO it was Burke. Burke, because of his age could not be prosecuted in Colorado. Could he be prosecuted today?
 
  • #695
This won’t answer your question- not a legal guru- but one of the indictments to both John and Patsy is about “accessory” that they knew the assailant etc. Accessory is after the fact (murder). Cover up clean up.

Who would John and Patsy help after a crime - to hide evidence of a crime? The mailman? Santa Claus?….I think not. Who is the GJ alluding to? IMO it was Burke. Burke, because of his age could not be prosecuted in Colorado. Could he be prosecuted today?
No.
 
  • #696
No, he didn't.



No,.he didn't. There was not enough evidence so he didn't charge. That was true then and is true now.

From Complete Colorado, author Craig Silverman:

Judge Lowenbach ruled that DA Alex Hunter had no right to hide the grand jury’s decision to indict, let alone to actively mislead the public. The true bills had to be disclosed based on case law, statutes and Colorado’s Rules of Criminal Procedure. In their book, The Death of Innocence, the Ramseys claimed clearance by the grand jury. Boulder DA Mary Lacy, who knew of the indictments, never mentioned it when she issued her “exoneration,” a move now belittled by Garnett.

I think it also bears mentioning that the charges the GJ did return indictments on had statutes of limitations attached, as do most indictments. Those expired during the time the indictments remained secret. Statutes of limitations are in place so that charges could still be filed within the timeframe allotted as seen fit. Of course in this case that very likely would not have happened anyway given Hunter's decision. Hunter's misleading the public into thinking no indictments were returned was also an act that closed the doors to any potential action being taken on those indictments. None of this was disclosed publicly until 13 years later. That's just wrong.
It’s all frickin gangsta politics in Boulder Colorado. And it was a win win for Hunter.
 
  • #697
This won’t answer your question- not a legal guru- but one of the indictments to both John and Patsy is about “accessory” that they knew the assailant etc. Accessory is after the fact (murder). Cover up clean up.

Who would John and Patsy help after a crime - to hide evidence of a crime? The mailman? Santa Claus?….I think not. Who is the GJ alluding to? IMO it was Burke. Burke, because of his age could not be prosecuted in Colorado. Could he be prosecuted today?
in my opinion, the GJ was probably convinced PR wrote the ransom letter, which would make her an accessory to whoever is the killer.
There are enough experts who have concluded the RN was written by PR. If you have eyeballs in your head you will see that PR write it. I think the GJ used their eyeballs. They may not have had enough evidence to say who killed JBR but an accessory? It seems they were convinced.
IMO
 
  • #698
He couldn’t be convicted today because he was a minor when the “accident” occurred.
So if a parent covers up the death of their child due to their other child accidentally killing their sibling, they are not charged with a crime? Or found guilty with no penalty? Just trying to understand this mess. I’ve looked and can’t find any legal information about this.
 
  • #699
He couldn’t be convicted today because he was a minor when the “accident” occurred.
So if a parent covers up the death of their child due to their other child accidentally killing their sibling, they are not charged with a crime? Or found guilty with no penalty? Just trying to understand this mess. I’ve looked and can’t find any legal information about this.
I believe they would be charged. In any other normal family where the family does not have the power and money to make anyone think otherwise.
But not in the Ramsey case. There are just too many factors in play that muddy the waters and keep the justice from being served.
 
  • #700
This won’t answer your question- not a legal guru- but one of the indictments to both John and Patsy is about “accessory” that they knew the assailant etc. Accessory is after the fact (murder). Cover up clean up.

Who would John and Patsy help after a crime - to hide evidence of a crime? The mailman? Santa Claus?….I think not. Who is the GJ alluding to? IMO it was Burke. Burke, because of his age could not be prosecuted in Colorado. Could he be prosecuted today?
According to a juror who did speak out (I think it might have been after the indictments were finally made public), he said that they were convinced that it was either Patsy or John, just not sure which one did what but that they covered for each other. They were also convinced that Patsy wrote the ransom note.

It's also worthy to note that after testimony and evidence had been presented, Mike Kane representing the DA's office issued statements exonerating both Bill "Santa" McReynolds and Burke Ramsey.
 
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