Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[sunspun]

But how would a stranger have known about the staircase? The killer knew where to leave that ransom note so it would be the first thing PR saw that morning.
How would a stranger know that?

I was thinking that the person might have left through that back door near that staircase, so he laid the ransom note on those stairs as he exited. I also thought one of the neighbors reported seeing that door standing open very early that morning.

It's also a logical enough place that someone coming from the upstairs floor where bedrooms were would walk down first thing in the morning to go to the kitchen for coffee.

 

[sunshineray]

Did you all know a male`s DNA was found on JonBenét Ramsey's clothing and a weapon in the 1996 murder case ? Her whole family and all the friends were tested and all the men in the untold story tested and the law couldn't find any matchings.

Watch Hunting JonBenét's Killer: The Untold Story | A&E

www.aetv.com

THIS CASE COULD BE SOLVED IN THE Philippines Criminal DATA BASE DNA?Yes in finding the matching to the male`s DNA was found on JonBenét Ramsey's clothing and a weapon in the 1996 murder case

One of the shows made about this case included Dr. Henry Lee. He made an interesting point about the unknown DNA on JBR's underwear. The source could very well have been from the manufacturing. New underwear from the bag, never washed. Just a thought.

 

[jjleroche]

One of the shows made about this case included Dr. Henry Lee. He made an interesting point about the unknown DNA on JBR's underwear. The source could very well have been from the manufacturing. New underwear from the bag, never washed. Just a thought.

I've wondered about the possibility of a contract killing. I know that seems very far-fetched and I doubt that this is the case, but It just strikes me as the one thing that doesn't appear to have ever been considered.

Initially I had wondered about this, as one of the possible suspects (IMO) had a very strong alibi. I started to then wonder about enemies which the Ramsey's could have who would consider such an option. The only thing which I could think of was a business-related enemy, targeting Jonbenet, and potentially causing horrific pain for John should she be murdered. All the better, I'm guessing, if he could be somehow implicated.
Stranger things have happened.
Any thoughts?

 

[CloudedTruth]

I was thinking that the person might have left through that back door near that staircase, so he laid the ransom note on those stairs as he exited. I also thought one of the neighbors reported seeing that door standing open very early that morning.

It's also a logical enough place that someone coming from the upstairs floor where bedrooms were would walk down first thing in the morning to go to the kitchen for coffee.

I believe it was John Fernie who mentioned the open door. But it was determined one of the police offers that had responded to the scene had opened it while they were searching the premises.

It was the Ramseys who suggested it had to be “an insider” to have known to place the note on the spiral staircase. The spiral staircase only went from the 2nd to the first floor. It did not go up to the 3rd floor where the master bedroom was.

 

[sunshineray]

I've wondered about the possibility of a contract killing. I know that seems very far-fetched and I doubt that this is the case, but It just strikes me as the one thing that doesn't appear to have ever been considered.

Initially I had wondered about this, as one of the possible suspects (IMO) had a very strong alibi. I started to then wonder about enemies which the Ramsey's could have who would consider such an option. The only thing which I could think of was a business-related enemy, targeting Jonbenet, and potentially causing horrific pain for John should she be murdered. All the better, I'm guessing, if he could be somehow implicated.
Stranger things have happened.
Any thoughts?

I myself think Patzy wrote the note. It was also her broken paint brush used in the garrote. I just don't see this as a contract killing. It makes much more sense to me that it was one or more relations of JBR responsible for all of it. AJMO

 

[FergusMcDuck]

It has been years since I went down this long ,dark rabbit hole, but if I remember correctly the only handwriting expert was one hired by John Ramsey.

There were six handwriting experts (ABFDE certified) who examined the note, four hired by the police, two by the Ramseys. All of them said there were both similarities and differences between Patsy's handwriting and the note.

JR was on the phone hiring THREE attorneys 20 minutes after ' finding ' the body of young daughter.
Why three? One to represent him, one to represent PR, and one to represent his ex-wife.

I don't believe this is true. The Ramseys didn't get representation until days later.

I will never forget how she described JR entering the living room next to the Christmas tree holding JR's little body. She stated that he held her body away from himself, the way one would carry a muddy pet that they didn't want to stain their clothing.

JonBenet was in full rigor mortis. His carrying options would be extremely limited.

She stated that she moved her hand to her holster, no knowing if she would have to use her gun.

I think that is as good a sign as any that Arndt had no business being a homicide detective.

Years ago, I distinctly remember one of the tabloids lead stories concerned the sorority sisters at the university his eldest daughter at attended. They were claiming that Beth had told them she was going to confront her dad about his SA, right before she was killed,
Cannot find that tabloid copy anywhere…
…but there was a small article about detectives talking to at least two sorority members, maybe more for an undisclosed reason, from her university in Ohio.(SFG 2/21/97)

The detectives did go there fishing for abuse stories, but none of her friends had heard anything implying abuse from her. But tabloid trash will be tabloid trash.

Red bolded : If she was killed by an intruder how would their dna have been left on the long johns, as she was found with the touch dna in the too-large underwear ?
Did the intruder go upstairs initially, and then re-dress her after her death ?

The DNA in her underwear was not touch, but from a bodily fluid. And there's no reason to think she wasn't already wearing what she was found in, when she was attacked. "Re-dress" in this situation would be pulling the longjohns and underwear back up after having pulled them down.

Frankenstein was a mixture of several human beings. Patched together

That's wrong. UM1 is a single profile, and it is in CODIS.

But how would a stranger have known about the staircase? The killer knew where to leave that ransom note so it would be the first thing PR saw that morning.
How would a stranger know that?

But it wasn't the first thing she saw that morning. She spent some time in the laundry area on the 2nd floor before going down. And there were two staircases, so she would have to walk down one of them. The note was left on the one closest to JonBenet.

I always assumed that the perp, whoever they may be, wore gloves even though LE hasn’t made such statements that the killer wore such themselves.

There were brown cotton fibers never sourced to anything in the house. Lou Smit thought they were from brown cotton work gloves, which were and are very common. It makes sense that he would only remove them for the SA.

I believe it was John Fernie who mentioned the open door. But it was determined one of the police offers that had responded to the scene had opened it while they were searching the premises.

I don't believe that was determined. Anyway, Fernie arrived just a minute or two after French who was the first officer on the scene. Fernie saw the door open at 6, the neighbor at 8.

 

[Bekind89]

JonBenet was in full rigor mortis. His carrying options would be extremely limited.

Yes, I realize that she has in full rigor and JR still held her body the way I described, away from him with his arms almost fully extended. Her being in rigor doesn't change the way he carried her body.

 

[Bekind89]

You don't have to believe it but that is exactly what JR did.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

JonBenet was in full rigor mortis. His carrying options would be extremely limited.

Yes, I realize that she has in full rigor and JR still held her body the way I described, away from him with his arms almost fully extended. Her being in rigor doesn't change the way he carried her body.

How would one carry the body of one's dead daughter, in rigor, while running up the stairs to find anyone who could help?

I find these things the least believable among the arguments for the guilt of the parents. They were willing to murder and SA their own daughter, fake a ransom note and 911 call, put on a performance of desperate and hysterical parents before police and friends - but John didn't want to get a little urine on his clothes?

You don't have to believe it but that is exactly what JR did.

That he carried her like that, yes. That this was due to not wanting to get stains on his clothes or whatever, is just random guesswork.

 

[Bekind89]

How would one carry the body of one's dead daughter, in rigor, while running up the stairs to find anyone who could help?

I find these things the least believable among the arguments for the guilt of the parents. They were willing to murder and SA their own daughter, fake a ransom note and 911 call, put on a performance of desperate and hysterical parents before police and friends - but John didn't want to get a little urine on his clothes?



That he carried her like that, yes. That this was due to not wanting to get stains on his clothes or whatever, is just random guesswork.

Why would anyone make up a story such as that? That is the way he carried her. This was witnessed and confirmed by the people who were in the house when JR rushed up the stairs carrying JB and laid her body down on the living room floor next to the Christmas tree.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Why would anyone make up a story such as that? That is the way he carried her. This was witnessed and confirmed by the people who were in the house when JR rushed up the stairs carrying JB and laid her body down on the living room floor next to the Christmas tree.

Please re-read what I wrote. He carried her like that, it's the various reasons for why that are made up - ignoring the obvious reason, that she was in full rigor mortis.

 

[Bekind89]

Please re-read what I wrote. He carried her like that, it's the various reasons for why that are made up - ignoring the obvious reason, that she was in full rigor mortis.

Yes, just please Google " How did JR carry JB's body up the stairs." There is an illustration of the way he carried her body.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Yes, just please Google " How did JR carry JB's body up the stairs." There is an illustration of the way he carried her body.

Again, re-read what I wrote. You are completely misreading me.

 

[Bekind89]

Please re-read what I wrote. He carried her like that, it's the various reasons for why that are made up - ignoring the obvious reason, that she was in full rigor mortis.

I hope this link works.

Google Image Result for https://preview.redd.it/i8d4rqllmrs51.jpg?auto=webp&s=77a2d1eb321adf089834e5b4daafe6a73eba8ea7

 

[AddieBoo]

How would one carry the body of one's dead daughter, in rigor, while running up the stairs to find anyone who could help?

I find these things the least believable among the arguments for the guilt of the parents. They were willing to murder and SA their own daughter, fake a ransom note and 911 call, put on a performance of desperate and hysterical parents before police and friends - but John didn't want to get a little urine on his clothes?



That he carried her like that, yes. That this was due to not wanting to get stains on his clothes or whatever, is just random guesswork.

How about you call for help and not move the body by bringing her upstairs. Was there any one else in the house at the time? Did FW yell for 911? Didn’t JR tell detectives that he initially found JBR at 11am that morning. The same time he told his family he found her. How about you don’t move her because she has rigor morris and she is soiled and she is dead?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

How about you call for help and not move the body by bringing her upstairs.

It was the body of his 6 year old daughter. I think proper police procedure was the furthest thing from his mind.

Was there any one else in the house at the time? Did FW yell for 911? Didn’t JR tell detectives that he initially found JBR at 11am that morning.

No, he didn't.

The same time he told his family he found her. How about you don’t move her because she has rigor morris and she is soiled and she is dead?

For all that everyone claims John acted unnaturally, the way people seem to believe he is supposed to have acted is far stranger. He found his daughter unmoving on the floor and he is supposed to think about preserving a crime scene?

He was only down there because Arndt was terrible at her job.

 

[AddieBoo]

There were six handwriting experts (ABFDE certified) who examined the note, four hired by the police, two by the Ramseys. All of them said there were both similarities and differences between Patsy's handwriting and the note.


I don't believe this is true. The Ramseys didn't get representation until days later.


JonBenet was in full rigor mortis. His carrying options would be extremely limited.


I think that is as good a sign as any that Arndt had no business being a homicide detective.


The detectives did go there fishing for abuse stories, but none of her friends had heard anything implying abuse from her. But tabloid trash will be tabloid trash.



The DNA in her underwear was not touch, but from a bodily fluid. And there's no reason to think she wasn't already wearing what she was found in, when she was attacked. "Re-dress" in this situation would be pulling the longjohns and underwear back up after having pulled them down.


That's wrong. UM1 is a single profile, and it is in CODIS.



But it wasn't the first thing she saw that morning. She spent some time in the laundry area on the 2nd floor before going down. And there were two staircases, so she would have to walk down one of them. The note was left on the one closest to JonBenet.


There were brown cotton fibers never sourced to anything in the house. Lou Smit thought they were from brown cotton work gloves, which were and are very common. It makes sense that he would only remove them for the SA.


I don't believe that was determined. Anyway, Fernie arrived just a minute or two after French who was the first officer on the scene. Fernie saw the door open at 6, the neighbor at 8.

How long has UM1 been in CODIS?
25 years? How many matches has that sample produced?

Is the remaining DNA able to be identified? Is it a “mixture” a composite? Those mixtures contain DNA from JBR?
The extra large/size 12 “Wednesday” underwear that JBR was discovered wearing, were brand new. Do brand new underwear contain any DNA?
How many different samples were collected not attributed to UM1? Six? So there were 6 people plus UM1 hiding at the Ramsey home on December 25th? Hanging out…hiding..waiting…six people… probably looking for pen and paper. Maybe one got bored and cut the pineapple that had been photographed next to the white serving bowl at the Ramsey house during their Christmas party, Did they offer JB that pineapple?

Where was their DNA found in the rest of the house? Did those six bring that beaver hair fiber? How about those red fibers? But they all wore gloves to write the letter and murder JBR? All the rest of those people.

JR was making a call for a flight to Atlanta at 1:40 pm that day according to detective Bill Palmer. He had an important meeting…
What time did JR destroy his daughter’s crime scene in the wine room by moving the body? What time was that? 1:05 pm?


Please name your source about what those sorority sisters told or didn’t tell detectives. But the tabloids did get that story and published it? Right? Did JR sue that tabloid for publishing a story claiming alleged SA on his daughter Beth?

Did JR sue Dr. Cyril Wecht for naming him as the accidental murderer of his daughter in his book? Did JR sue Dr.Wecht for naming him as the accidental killer of his daughter, publicly, in numerous media interviews and many public lectures? The book is still in print and was published in 1999. “Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?” According to Dr.Wecht, in his book, the father.
Did JR sue Dr Wecht to change the title of his book and naming John Ramsey as the person who accidentally killed his daughter during SA game?

How about you call for help and not move the body by bringing her upstairs. Was there any one else in the house at the time? Did FW yell for 911? Didn’t JR tell detectives that he initially found JBR at 11am that morning. The same time he told his family he found her. How about you don’t move her because she has rigor morris and she is soiled and she is dead?

 

[GRT]

Him saying. " call 911" isn't alarming to me. He wasn't expecting to find a dead child in her own home. He probably thought the reason she was on the ground was an injury.
The way I use words and terms regarding emergencies is I say " call the police" for LE and I say "call 911" for medical response.
I'm sorry and I don't mean to be rude but JR said incriminating things about many people. Fleet may have witnessed a number of things that made him angry. Tragedies bring out high emotions. He may have cared about JBR as she was a playmate of his daughter. He may have been upset by people's behavior that had nothing to do with guilt. I myself have gotten pissed at people getting far too drunk at memorials. He may have had concerns for his own child if he suspected impropriety in the Ramsey household.
I'm not hearing anything that says suspect.
This isn't the response of someone whom I though was trying to avoid an investigation.

The Denver Post Online: JonBenet Ramsey

Just MOO, but I think he was expecting to see a dead child. Fleet claimed he'd looked in that room earlier in the day but didn't see her. I think he did. I think that's the reason the suitcase was set out. I think he planned on putting her body in it and then slipping it out the window at some point.

I'm firmly in the FDI camp. Yelling "Call 911" was ludicrous. An innocent person would have just yelled something along the lines of "Get down here!" or "OMG, we found her!" But not Fleet. He yells "Call 911" when LE was already there.

MOO

 

[Bekind89]

How long has UM1 been in CODIS?
25 years? How many matches has that sample produced?

Is the remaining DNA able to be identified? Is it a “mixture” a composite? Those mixtures contain DNA from JBR?
The extra large/size 12 “Wednesday” underwear that JBR was discovered wearing, were brand new. Do brand new underwear contain any DNA?
How many different samples were collected not attributed to UM1? Six? So there were 6 people plus UM1 hiding at the Ramsey home on December 25th? Hanging out…hiding..waiting…six people… probably looking for pen and paper. Maybe one got bored and cut the pineapple that had been photographed next to the white serving bowl at the Ramsey house during their Christmas party, Did they offer JB that pineapple?

Where was their DNA found in the rest of the house? Did those six bring that beaver hair fiber? How about those red fibers? But they all wore gloves to write the letter and murder JBR? All the rest of those people.

JR was making a call for a flight to Atlanta at 1:40 pm that day according to detective Bill Palmer. He had an important meeting…
What time did JR destroy his daughter’s crime scene in the wine room by moving the body? What time was that? 1:05 pm?


Please name your source about what those sorority sisters told or didn’t tell detectives. But the tabloids did get that story and published it? Right? Did JR sue that tabloid for publishing a story claiming alleged SA on his daughter Beth?

Did JR sue Dr. Cyril Wecht for naming him as the accidental murderer of his daughter in his book? Did JR sue Dr.Wecht for naming him as the accidental killer of his daughter, publicly, in numerous media interviews and many public lectures? The book is still in print and was published in 1999. “Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?” According to Dr.Wecht, in his book, the father.
Did JR sue Dr Wecht to change the title of his book and naming John Ramsey as the person who accidentally killed his daughter during SA game?

JR's friend who was there when JR " discovered" JB's body stated that she was in a tiny, cluttered dark room. He stated that JR screamed before turning the light switch on and there is no way anyone could have seen her body in the dark.
JR knew JB was in that room because he is the one who put her there. This is my belief and my opinion only and my belief will never change.

 

[GRT]

Fact: 9 times out 10 when a female child is SA and or murdered in the home it is the oldest male member of the family who is the perpetrator.

That's not actually correct. While it is more likely that it's a person the child knows, as opposed to a stranger, it's still more likely to be an acquaintance than a family member. Statistically, it's more likely to have been Fleet than JR or BR.