Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

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  • #881
It was the body of his 6 year old daughter. I think proper police procedure was the furthest thing from his mind.



No, he didn't.



For all that everyone claims John acted unnaturally, the way people seem to believe he is supposed to have acted is far stranger. He found his daughter unmoving on the floor and he is supposed to think about preserving a crime scene?

He was only down there because Arndt was terrible at her job.
He found his daughter at 11 am initially.
It was the body of his 6 year old daughter. I think proper police procedure was the furthest thing from his mind.



No, he didn't.



For all that everyone claims John acted unnaturally, the way people seem to believe he is supposed to have acted is far stranger. He found his daughter unmoving on the floor and he is supposed to think about preserving a crime scene?

He was only down there because Arndt was terrible at her job.

Just MOO, but I think he was expecting to see a dead child. Fleet claimed he'd looked in that room earlier in the day but didn't see her. I think he did. I think that's the reason the suitcase was set out. I think he planned on putting her body in it and then slipping it out the window at some point.

I'm firmly in the FDI camp. Yelling "Call 911" was ludicrous. An innocent person would have just yelled something along the lines of "Get down here!" or "OMG, we found her!" But not Fleet. He yells "Call 911" when LE was already there.

MOO
You mean the FW that was cleared by BPD as a suspect?
That is interesting because his description of where the body of JBR had been placed in the wine room is different than what JR remembers. Wonder why that is.
FW the guy who testified before the GJ and sued to have his testimony released to the public?
Interesting..
 
  • #882
He found his daughter at 11 am initially.



You mean the FW that was cleared by BPD as a suspect?
That is interesting because his description of where the body of JBR had been placed in the wine room is different than what JR remembers. Wonder why that is.
FW the guy who testified before the GJ and sued to have his testimony released to the public?
Interesting..
Yes, that FW. JR and PR were also cleared at one time.

Don't you find that odd? That FW sued to have his testimony released? Reminds me of those who say the Bible is factual because the Bible says so.

That would be the same FW that flew into a hissy about how his hosts were acting at JBR's funeral. Several reported that he was acting crazy.
 
  • #883
...his description of where the body of JBR had been placed in the wine room is different than what JR remembers. Wonder why that is.
Because he moved it prior to JR finding it.

MOO
 
  • #884
That's not actually correct. While it is more likely that it's a person the child knows, as opposed to a stranger, it's still more likely to be an acquaintance than a family member. Statistically, it's more likely to have been Fleet than JR or BR.

View attachment 557312
It was JR. How much PR knew about him or if she suspected him, even subconsciously, that would to me be fascinating to know.
PR was on a lot of medication after JB's death. It was obvious whenever she was interviewed. Her speech was slurred and she just appeared over medicated. Not that I blame her, but I believe that is how she numbed herself in order to cope.
Again, all speculation on my part.
I know what JR is. What I would find interesting is PR.
ETA: Thank you for correcting my post!
 
  • #885
He found his daughter at 11 am initially.



You mean the FW that was cleared by BPD as a suspect?
That is interesting because his description of where the body of JBR had been placed in the wine room is different than what JR remembers. Wonder why that is.
FW the guy who testified before the GJ and sued to have his testimony released to the public?
Interesting..
JR acted naturally? Surely you jest. Is it natural to be on the phone attempting to hire attorneys for everyone in your family, including your ex-wife within an hour of finding your murdered child's body?
Is it also natural to try to immediately book a flight out of the state in the same time frame?
What kind of parent wouldn't be numb and in shock?
Patsy was a heaving, sobbing wreck and keep hugging her dead child, even though that child had been dead for so long that her body was in full rigor. Her reaction is that of heartbroken, grieving parent.
JR? Not so much. Completely cold and desperate to flee, frightened , guilty.
The people who witnessed his behavior believed JR was acting guilty and nervous that day, not grieving for his daughter.
 
  • #886
It was JR. How much PR knew about him or if she suspected him, even subconsciously, that would to me be fascinating to know.
PR was on a lot of medication after JB's death. It was obvious whenever she was interviewed. Her speech was slurred and she just appeared over medicated. Not that I blame her, but I believe that is how she numbed herself in order to cope.
Again, all speculation on my part.
I know what JR is. What I would find interesting is PR.
ETA: Thank you for correcting my post!
My money is on FW. The way he behaved at the house that day and after that is highly suspect.

I imagine many parents would seek a little solace in medication after the loss of a child. I agree--it's how she coped.

I've always felt as though FW had a buddy in the PD, but I can't overlook his behavior.

FDI

MOO
 
  • #887
My money is on FW. The way he behaved at the house that day and after that is highly suspect.

I imagine many parents would seek a little solace in medication after the loss of a child. I agree--it's how she coped.

I've always felt as though FW had a buddy in the PD, but I can't overlook his behavior.

FDI

MOO
And I can't overlook JR's behavior.
 
  • #888
How long has UM1 been in CODIS?

Since 2004 (I believe it was sent in late 2003).

25 years? How many matches has that sample produced?

If there had been a match, the case would be solved. But not everyone is tested against CODIS, and we don't know what the killer has done since. Take Faith Hedgepeth. Her killer's DNA was in the database without a match for a decade, until they got one.

Is the remaining DNA able to be identified?

As far as I know there is only the touch DNA on the cors, which doesn't match UM1 or the Ramseys. I am unaware of any other test results.

Is it a “mixture” a composite?

No, excepting two faint alleles in the touch DNA (which isn't uncommon).

Those mixtures contain DNA from JBR?

The touch DNA contains JonBenet and UM1.

The extra large/size 12 “Wednesday” underwear that JBR was discovered wearing, were brand new. Do brand new underwear contain any DNA?

They can, but not anywhere near the amount found in JonBenet's underwear. And they wouldn't match touch DNA on separate garments from another factory in another country of a different age

How many different samples were collected not attributed to UM1? Six?

Not really. Early tests showed alleles that excluded the Ramseys but didn't have enough alleles to show a clear profile or mutual correspondence. When UM1 was mapped, what we have from the fingernails were consistent with it

So there were 6 people plus UM1 hiding at the Ramsey home on December 25th?

No, there's no evidence of that

Hanging out…hiding..waiting…six people… probably looking for pen and paper.

The pen and paper would be visible from the bottom of the spiral staircase, which we know the killer descended (as garland from the railing was found in JonBenet's hair, consistent with her being carried).

Maybe one got bored and cut the pineapple that had been photographed next to the white serving bowl at the Ramsey house during their Christmas party, Did they offer JB that pineapple?

Unlikely, since JonBenet also had grapes in her duodenum and there were none in that bowl. That bowl was most likely put out in the morning after, by the victim advocates.

Where was their DNA found in the rest of the house?

Where did the police look? Did they try under the bed in the room next to JonBenet?

LDid those six bring that beaver hair fiber?

The killer would have brought them, either as part of his clothing or something else.

How about those red fibers?

Red acrylic or polyester in the locations where they were found? I have a hypothesis about that, and it's connected with a statement JonBenet gave two days before she died, questions the police asked of Patsy and the very nature of the season. Basically, the killer made himself.into a benign figure.

But they all wore gloves to write the letter and murder JBR? All the rest of those people.

Only one, and yeah, likely brown cotton working gloves which he wore for everything except the SA (where he likely wanted to get physical, and without his blood or semen likely thought DNA wouldn't be an issue).

JR was making a call for a flight to Atlanta at 1:40 pm that day according to detective Bill Palmer. He had an important meeting…

He had something important to do in Atlanta, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out what it was when he just found his daughter dead. Where is JonBenet buried?

What time did JR destroy his daughter’s crime scene in the wine room by moving the body? What time was that? 1:05 pm?

Yes. And he only "destroyed" it because the BPD were treating it like a kindergarten.

Please name your source about what those sorority sisters told or didn’t tell detectives.

Schiller, Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Ch 10

On February 12, Detectives Thomas and Gosage began an investigation into the death of John Ramsey’s oldest daughter, Beth. She had died in a car accident near Chicago in 1992, and the death had changed Ramsey’s life in many ways. Immediately afterward, he immersed himself in books on how to deal with the loss of a child. He turned introspective. To many of his friends and associates, the change in him was noticeable. The police wanted to find out if there had been a history of child or sexual abuse involving Beth. They were convinced that what Beth had confided to her girlfriends would give them insight into John Ramsey’s conduct with JonBenét. The detectives began by interviewing Natalie Geroli, who had been Beth’s closest friend. Two days later they saw her former teacher Elizabeth Bouis before visiting two more of her friends, Laura Foster and Lanie Bartlett. By February 21, Thomas and Gosage had completed a four-state trip and had also interviewed Tim Farrell and Marty Desantis, who were acquaintances of Beth. In the end, the detectives found no indication of inappropriate conduct by Ramsey toward Beth.

But the tabloids did get that story and published it? Right? Did JR sue that tabloid for publishing a story claiming alleged SA on his daughter Beth?

Contrary to popular opinion, John hasn't sued even majority of the rags putting salacious libel nto print.

Did JR sue Dr. Cyril Wecht for naming him as the accidental murderer of his daughter in his book? Did JR sue Dr.Wecht for naming him as the accidental killer of his daughter, publicly, in numerous media interviews and many public lectures? The book is still in print and was published in 1999. “Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?” According to Dr.Wecht, in his book, the father.
Did JR sue Dr Wecht to change the title of his book and naming John Ramsey as the person who accidentally killed his daughter during SA game?

See above. Also, no doubt his lawyers know who can be sued and who leaves enough room for doubt that it would fall under free speech.
 
  • #889
JR acted naturally? Surely you jest. Is it natural to be on the phone attempting to hire attorneys for everyone in your family, including your ex-wife within an hour of finding your murdered child's body?
Is it also natural to try to immediately book a flight out of the state in the same time frame?
What kind of parent wouldn't be numb and in shock?
Patsy was a heaving, sobbing wreck and keep hugging her dead child, even though that child had been dead for so long that her body was in full rigor. Her reaction is that of heartbroken, grieving parent.
JR? Not so much. Completely cold and desperate to flee, frightened , guilty.
The people who witnessed his behavior believed JR was acting guilty and nervous that day, not grieving for his daughter.
ETA: Every time I see JR or even a photo of him the word sinister comes to my mind.
He is sinister, creepy, and imo malignant.
 
  • #890
  • #891
Surely you jest. Is it natural to be on the phone attempting to hire attorneys for everyone in your family, including your ex-wife within an hour of finding your murdered child's body?
He didn't do that, though. The Ramseys didn't get representation until days later.
 
  • #892
That's not actually correct. While it is more likely that it's a person the child knows, as opposed to a stranger, it's still more likely to be an acquaintance than a family member. Statistically, it's more likely to have been Fleet than JR or BR.

View attachment 557312
Wow, the FW did it are out in force. Wonder what’s up
Since 2004 (I believe it was sent in late 2003).



If there had been a match, the case would be solved. But not everyone is tested against CODIS, and we don't know what the killer has done since. Take Faith Hedgepeth. Her killer's DNA was in the database without a match for a decade, until they got one.



As far as I know there is only the touch DNA on the cors, which doesn't match UM1 or the Ramseys. I am unaware of any other test results.



No, excepting two faint alleles in the touch DNA (which isn't uncommon).



The touch DNA contains JonBenet and UM1.



They can, but not anywhere near the amount found in JonBenet's underwear. And they wouldn't match touch DNA on separate garments from another factory in another country of a different age



Not really. Early tests showed alleles that excluded the Ramseys but didn't have enough alleles to show a clear profile or mutual correspondence. When UM1 was mapped, what we have from the fingernails were consistent with it



No, there's no evidence of that



The pen and paper would be visible from the bottom of the spiral staircase, which we know the killer descended (as garland from the railing was found in JonBenet's hair, consistent with her being carried).



Unlikely, since JonBenet also had grapes in her duodenum and there were none in that bowl. That bowl was most likely put out in the morning after, by the victim advocates.



Where did the police look? Did they try under the bed in the room next to JonBenet?



The killer would have brought them, either as part of his clothing or something else.



Red acrylic or polyester in the locations where they were found? I have a hypothesis about that, and it's connected with a statement JonBenet gave two days before she died, questions the police asked of Patsy and the very nature of the season. Basically, the killer made himself.into a benign figure.



Only one, and yeah, likely brown cotton working gloves which he wore for everything except the SA (where he likely wanted to get physical, and without his blood or semen likely thought DNA wouldn't be an issue).



He had something important to do in Atlanta, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out what it was when he just found his daughter dead. Where is JonBenet buried?



Yes. And he only "destroyed" it because the BPD were treating it like a kindergarten.



Schiller, Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Ch 10





Contrary to popular opinion, John hasn't sued even majority of the rags putting salacious libel nto print.



See above. Also, no doubt his lawyers know who can be sued and who leaves enough room for doubt that it would fall under free speech.
Sounds like Ramsey case is airtight…wow. Just….wow…
 
  • #893
He didn't do that, though. The Ramseys didn't get representation until days later.
JR was on the phone attempting to hire attorneys within one hour of finding his murdered child's body. This has been stated by the people who were actually there at the time. He was also attempting to book a flight out of the state, and hell no, that is NOT a normal reaction for any parent in such a horrifying, shocking, tragic situation.
 
  • #894
  • #895
  • #896
Since 2004 (I believe it was sent in late 2003).



If there had been a match, the case would be solved. But not everyone is tested against CODIS, and we don't know what the killer has done since. Take Faith Hedgepeth. Her killer's DNA was in the database without a match for a decade, until they got one.



As far as I know there is only the touch DNA on the cors, which doesn't match UM1 or the Ramseys. I am unaware of any other test results.



No, excepting two faint alleles in the touch DNA (which isn't uncommon).



The touch DNA contains JonBenet and UM1.



They can, but not anywhere near the amount found in JonBenet's underwear. And they wouldn't match touch DNA on separate garments from another factory in another country of a different age



Not really. Early tests showed alleles that excluded the Ramseys but didn't have enough alleles to show a clear profile or mutual correspondence. When UM1 was mapped, what we have from the fingernails were consistent with it



No, there's no evidence of that



The pen and paper would be visible from the bottom of the spiral staircase, which we know the killer descended (as garland from the railing was found in JonBenet's hair, consistent with her being carried).



Unlikely, since JonBenet also had grapes in her duodenum and there were none in that bowl. That bowl was most likely put out in the morning after, by the victim advocates.



Where did the police look? Did they try under the bed in the room next to JonBenet?



The killer would have brought them, either as part of his clothing or something else.



Red acrylic or polyester in the locations where they were found? I have a hypothesis about that, and it's connected with a statement JonBenet gave two days before she died, questions the police asked of Patsy and the very nature of the season. Basically, the killer made himself.into a benign figure.



Only one, and yeah, likely brown cotton working gloves which he wore for everything except the SA (where he likely wanted to get physical, and without his blood or semen likely thought DNA wouldn't be an issue).



He had something important to do in Atlanta, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out what it was when he just found his daughter dead. Where is JonBenet buried?



Yes. And he only "destroyed" it because the BPD were treating it like a kindergarten.



Schiller, Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Ch 10





Contrary to popular opinion, John hasn't sued even majority of the rags putting salacious libel nto print.



See above. Also, no doubt his lawyers know who can be sued and who leaves enough room for doubt that it would fall under free speech.
Maybe he just didn’t want to face discovery by Dershowitz…ya think?
 
  • #897
BDI and parents covered it up JMO
 
  • #898
Prove it.
MOO means My Opinion Only. That's why I added it; that's my opinion.

Just as it's your opinion that JR is the killer.
 
  • #899
He didn't do that, though. The Ramseys didn't get representation until days later.
John Ramsey was probably on the phone in the wee hours of the morning to his friends at Lockheed while Patsy was writing the RN… what happened to his cell phone?
MOO
 
  • #900
MOO means My Opinion Only. That's why I added it; that's my opinion.

Just as it's your opinion that JR is the killer.
Never a good idea to assume…especially about a murder case….IMO

Prove your opinion. Back it up with evidence. State the facts. Cite your sources.
 
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