Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

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  • #1,521
Okay, so you don't actually know what STEM is; you just threw it out there in case some bought that. Saying she graduated hs, finished college, and left West Virginia is undeniably accurate.

Saying there's not a lot in backwards WV who do that might even be fair. But painting Patsy as a STEM girl is just ludicrous. We had many many students who managed to eke out degrees that were far far from being "STEM" students. In some majors, it takes mostly money and diligence. Gosh, many in my generation did literature degrees because how hard could it be to just read?

What did Patsy do professionaly with her journalism major?
I do know what STEM is, thank you. Perhaps, she was not a Stanford University or MIT level "STEM" degree graduate with a full career.
I believe Patsy might have done well in a STEM career . . .
nursing, radiography, speech therapist, who knows? Hearing aid technician.Or are middle income jobs suddenly ludicrous?

You stated Patsy turned to the only path to the source of success she knew. Please own what you said.
 
  • #1,522
  • #1,523
Well, if there were samples of PR prior to the murder, I'd like to see those side by side with the ransom note. If you have them, I would appreciate if you could share. Thanks in advance.
I would have to look them up, but I know there are examples available online of her writing identifying photos. There's a recent one that has come to light of her writing on a name tag she did for JB who was dressed as Marilyn Monroe. The writing I've seen on photos is significant because it's printing, which is a better comparison to the ransom note than cursive.

 
  • #1,524
Is it possible the grand jury got to see BR's medical records? And that's why they believed the parents were guilty of putting her in harm's way?
 
  • #1,525
You tend to comment in absolutes.

"Patsy didn't write the note". "The Ramsey's didn't kill JonBenet". "bill McReynolds apparently scored a closer match but was ruled out due to his ill health. Linda Hoffman Pugh is another one who apparently scored a closer match but was ruled out because she had an alibi of being asleep."

These statements make it sound as if they were the only reasons for being ruled out, ill health and an alibi of sleep. Perhaps that's not what you intended, but that's what it sounded like.

Again, if 5 points means no match, 4.5 means that person cannot unequivocally be ruled out. Also again, the 5 point scale is not even widely used anymore because it has not been found to be accurate. There were only a few of the examiners in this case that counted on the scale to represent their findings. What I find far more significant, is that out of the 74 persons who gave samples, Patsy was the only one who could not be ruled out. You may think that her 4.5 score rules her out, but the facts are that it does not. An almost is not good enough.

There does not need to be a motive if there was a horrific accident caused by a moment of uncontrolled rage. The duct tape and cord were not found in the home, that is not proof that they were never there. The sheets on JB's bed had a strong smell of urine, but I don't really think that was a factor. We have only Patsy's word as to what she put JB to bed in, and even that she told two different stories about.

JB's blood was found on her white blanket and the most amount of her blood was found on the pink barbie nightgown, suggesting that may actually be what she was wearing that night before she was wiped down and her clothing changed. Fibers from John's shirt were found in her labia. Patsy's fibers from what she was wearing that night were found in the blanket, in the cord, on the sticky part of the duct tape and in her paint tote.

The foreign DNA may or may not be significant. More than one person's DNA was found, and most if it was mixed with JB's own blood. After more than two decades, there has never been a hit from the DNA uploaded to CODIS. If this person were the crazy pedophile as has been suggested, it's highly unlikely that no further crimes were committed and that this person is so adept as to never, ever leave evidence behind at any crime scene.

I am absolutely open to scenarios that promote an intruder did this. To date however, there is no compelling evidence to even come close to proving that theory. The Grand Jury rejected the intruder theory. The Grand Jury were convinced that Patsy wrote the note. The Grand Jury did not thing the DNA evidence was convincing or profound. And they saw evidence and heard testimony that we have not. They believed the parents were responsible.
I’ll try and change my style of communication, thanks for letting me know. Poor little jonbenet. It’s terrible what happened to her. Patsy’s fibres could have transferred onto JonBenet when she put her to bed. The fibres were consistent with the red thread in patsys jacket but that doesn’t mean they were the fibres from patsy’s jacket. There’s no way to definitively prove fibres are from a particular garment. Patsy’s jacket had other colours, not just red and those other coloured fibres were not found on JonBenet. Jonbenet had fibres that were not matched to anything in the house. When John removed the tape from jonbenets mouth, the red fibres could have transferred from the white blanket. When you live in your home, your fibres are everywhere. Have you ever seen dust and fibres floating around inside in the sun rays shining in through a window? I have. Fibres are everywhere. The biggest set back with this case, in my opinion, is the police not securing the scene, allowing friends inside the home and allowing everyone to walk around, cleaning and contaminating the house. Telling John to search the house etc and not conducting a thorough search of the property themselves. I’m sure it was a lesson learned for them. I believe they should have taken John and patsy straight to the police station for seperate questioning as soon as jonbenets body was found. There are definitely very strange things about patsy and John. But being strange and weird doesn’t condemn people as murderers. The blood on the barbie nightgown was on the outside, which in my opinion could indicate she wasn’t wearing it. I think anything is plausible with this case, parents did it or intruder but I tend to believe it was an intruder, based on the DNA, the ransom note, the torture and murder weapons, JonBenet being out in the public domain, johns high profile business and known wealth and the parents oblivious and arrogant mindsets.
 
  • #1,526
You said "I don't find her analysis to be scientific or objective at all".... yet you are the one who said you can tell male writing from female????? Surely you jest.
What I said was I've always felt I can usually tell if a handwriting was a male's or female's, and that's what I meant. I've always thought that. Didn't say anything about being scientific! When I see a handwritten note, I think it usually looks either male or female writing. Don't you? Sure, I know there are exceptions, and some times I've been wrong but have been surprised. I know one exception personally. A good friend, a male, has what I see as very female handwriting. It always surprises me. But back to the point, yes, PR's to me certainly looks female. Look at the pre-murder example of hers posted above. If you had to guess, wouldn't you also say it looks like a female wrote it? And I would guess the RN is male's. But as I said, this is something I FEEL, not presenting it as objective evidence, so no need for snark, tyvm.
 
  • #1,527
I do know what STEM is, thank you. Perhaps, she was not a Stanford University or MIT level "STEM" degree graduate with a full career.
I believe Patsy might have done well in a STEM career . . .
nursing, radiography, speech therapist, who knows? Hearing aid technician.Or are middle income jobs suddenly ludicrous?

You stated Patsy turned to the only path to the source of success she knew. Please own what you said.
No, I most certainly did NOT say that and, again, you are turning to snother fantasy presentation. I said MANY woman of a certain culture were brought up to appeal to men by their physical traits rather than smarts and many net advantageous marriages by doing so. Ancestral sexual abuse, "oh, it's just a little bit" is often shrugged off in these families as just a nuisance on the path to the end goal. It doesn't mean those women don't have any brains, it's just they are unfortunately taught to flaunt their sexual wares and keep their brains well hidden until their successful man is secured. Im sure you understand we are talking about the world in which PR was raised, not today's standards.

As to your claim that PR "would have" promoted STEM level experiences for JBR, the girl was 6 years old! She could have anywhere along the timeline of JBR's life, enrolled her for such experiences as many many parents do. There are so many programs available, some with long wait lists and stringent vetting. Even nonacademic oriented diverse experiences like gymnastics, soccer, arts of all kinds, swimming, etc are available. I've not seen mention that Patsy spent any time, effort, or money whatsoever toward any other exposure in life for 6 year old JBR other than getting her up like a 23-26 year old dyed costumed strutting mess of fawning hotness to catch the "eye" of her many judges and audiences. There really didn't seem to be ANY sign of "well rounded" as you claim. No, fawning pageantry was all JBR knew of her self worth until she died at the age of 6, supposedly by a crazy intruder baited by her "pageantry" you'd have us believe?? "I DONT FEEL PRETTY" she said. Why, fgs, should any little 6 year old girl even feel concerned about whether she was PRETTY or not??
 
  • #1,528
It's a bit difficult to compare cursive writing to printing.
This is the only example pre murder I can find of patsy’s handwriting where she prints. It seems she mostly wrote in running writing.
 

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  • #1,529
What I said was I've always felt I can usually tell if a handwriting was a male's or female's, and that's what I meant. I've always thought that. Didn't say anything about being scientific! When I see a handwritten note, I think it usually looks either male or female writing. Don't you? Sure, I know there are exceptions, and some times I've been wrong but have been surprised. I know one exception personally. A good friend, a male, has what I see as very female handwriting. It always surprises me. But back to the point, yes, PR's to me certainly looks female. Look at the pre-murder example of hers posted above. If you had to guess, wouldn't you also say it looks like a female wrote it? And I would guess the RN is male's. But as I said, this is something I FEEL, not presenting it as objective evidence, so no need for snark, tyvm.
No, I never see handwriting and think to myself that it's either male or female. That's the epitome of subjective. Another term for that is "junk science". Its evidence of "wishing" something was so.
 
  • #1,530
What I said was I've always felt I can usually tell if a handwriting was a male's or female's, and that's what I meant. I've always thought that. Didn't say anything about being scientific! When I see a handwritten note, I think it usually looks either male or female writing. Don't you? Sure, I know there are exceptions, and some times I've been wrong but have been surprised. I know one exception personally. A good friend, a male, has what I see as very female handwriting. It always surprises me. But back to the point, yes, PR's to me certainly looks female. Look at the pre-murder example of hers posted above. If you had to guess, wouldn't you also say it looks like a female wrote it? And I would guess the RN is male's. But as I said, this is something I FEEL, not presenting it as objective evidence, so no need for snark, tyvm.
I’ve always thought the ransom note looked like it was written by a male too. From memory, the criminal profilers thought who ever wrote it was most likely male, into movies and had something against John. It does have a masculine air about it. I actually see similarities between the ransom note and johns handwriting, some letters John wrote pre murder look very similar in my opinion, but he wasn’t a match so what would I know lol
 
  • #1,531
I’ll try and change my style of communication, thanks for letting me know. Poor little jonbenet. It’s terrible what happened to her. Patsy’s fibres could have transferred onto JonBenet when she put her to bed. The fibres were consistent with the red thread in patsys jacket but that doesn’t mean they were the fibres from patsy’s jacket. There’s no way to definitively prove fibres are from a particular garment. Patsy’s jacket had other colours, not just red and those other coloured fibres were not found on JonBenet. Jonbenet had fibres that were not matched to anything in the house. When John removed the tape from jonbenets mouth, the red fibres could have transferred from the white blanket. When you live in your home, your fibres are everywhere. Have you ever seen dust and fibres floating around inside in the sun rays shining in through a window? I have. Fibres are everywhere. The biggest set back with this case, in my opinion, is the police not securing the scene, allowing friends inside the home and allowing everyone to walk around, cleaning and contaminating the house. Telling John to search the house etc and not conducting a thorough search of the property themselves. I’m sure it was a lesson learned for them. I believe they should have taken John and patsy straight to the police station for seperate questioning as soon as jonbenets body was found. There are definitely very strange things about patsy and John. But being strange and weird doesn’t condemn people as murderers. The blood on the barbie nightgown was on the outside, which in my opinion could indicate she wasn’t wearing it. I think anything is plausible with this case, parents did it or intruder but I tend to believe it was an intruder, based on the DNA, the ransom note, the torture and murder weapons, JonBenet being out in the public domain, johns high profile business and known wealth and the parents oblivious and arrogant mindsets.
One thing I feel I can say for certain about this case, is that for those of us who have followed it for many years (me from day one), there are strong opinions and emotions. The other thing that is certain, is that we do not have definitive answers on a lot of things. I sincerely hope that one day we might....seems like a long shot though. I'm not convinced that further DNA testing will give us the answers we crave, even with the advancement in that technology. But I fully agree that it's worth testing. We just have to be patient and confident that they will do that when the time is right. There is only so much DNA left is my understanding.

Yes, the police made a lot of mistakes especially on day one. But there is much more that plays into the whole story that begs questioning too. The interference and obstruction of the DA's office played a big role too.

Bottom line is we all want answers, we all want to see justice for JonBenet.
 
  • #1,532
No, I most certainly did NOT say that and, again, you are turning to snother fantasy presentation. I said MANY woman of a certain culture were brought up to appeal to men by their physical traits rather than smarts and many net advantageous marriages by doing so. Ancestral sexual abuse, "oh, it's just a little bit" is often shrugged off in these families as just a nuisance on the path to the end goal. It doesn't mean those women don't have any brains, it's just they are unfortunately taught to flaunt their sexual wares and keep their brains well hidden until their successful man is secured. Im sure you understand we are talking about the world in which PR was raised, not today's standards.

As to your claim that PR "would have" promoted STEM level experiences for JBR, the girl was 6 years old! She could have anywhere along the timeline of JBR's life, enrolled her for such experiences as many many parents do. There are so many programs available, some with long wait lists and stringent vetting. Even nonacademic oriented diverse experiences like gymnastics, soccer, arts of all kinds, swimming, etc are available. I've not seen mention that Patsy spent any time, effort, or money whatsoever toward any other exposure in life for 6 year old JBR other than getting her up like a 23-26 year old dyed costumed strutting mess of fawning hotness to catch the "eye" of her many judges and audiences. There really didn't seem to be ANY sign of "well rounded" as you claim. No, fawning pageantry was all JBR knew of her self worth until she died at the age of 6, supposedly by a crazy intruder baited by her "pageantry" you'd have us believe?? "I DONT FEEL PRETTY" she said. Why, fgs, should any little 6 year old girl even feel concerned about whether she was PRETTY or not??
You are correct. I am sorry. I was referring to another post that said the only source of success.
 
  • #1,533
Is it possible the grand jury got to see BR's medical records? And that's why they believed the parents were guilty of putting her in harm's way?
I am wondering this. We know there is *something* on which they base this conclusion. Its not thin air. Was there a KNOWN history of harming JBR that they simply shrugged off?

I am certainly not accusing BR and I do feel very empathetic for the cloud of suspicion he will live with until this case is resolved.

One of the things in this case is often not spoken of frankly. It is not customary for a child of 6 to be fecally incontinent. In abuse cases, there were usually reasons for this incontinence and none of them "normal".

In my social work job, one of my hats was to teach the portion of foster parent certification classes that deals with fostering girls who'd been victims of sexual abuse. Being sexually precocious is very sadly one of the outcomes of early sexual abuse. It is NEVER the girls fault, and is ALWAYS the responsibility of the adult in the scenario to act responsibly. And an adult sexual abuser is ALWAYS in the wrong no matter the circumstances.

But Burke wasn't an adult. If he'd had exposure to sexually explicit visuals at his young age and had, as a result, precocious ventures into sex play AND if the parents knew and simply shrugged it off, then they were negligent. Had a psychiatrist or counselor even given them instructions in how to protect JBR and how to place boundaries on Burke with accompanying rewards AND deterrents, and the Ramseys not followed through, then they were indeed negligent. I can't begin to tell you how many such parents are criminally negligent with their lazy parenting and hyperfocus on all things superficial. Coming from Patsy's " it was just a little bit" sexual abuse, I'd say it likely they'd not think this to be of very great concern, certainly not enough for a murder to be committed during kids sex play.

But *something* the grand Jury is privy to that we are not convinced them without doubt that both John and Patsy knowingly put their daughter in mortal danger that night.
 
  • #1,534
That's your answer to "a journalism degree isn't STEM"? I'm not following your point here. Was there something in Patsy's elementary and secondary education, extracurricular activities, interests, etc, that made her a "STEM kinda girl"??

I'm just trying to sort out fact from fantasy....
STEM stands for science, technology, engineering and mathematics and refers to any subjects that fall under these four disciplines not journalism.
 
  • #1,535
I do know what STEM is, thank you. Perhaps, she was not a Stanford University or MIT level "STEM" degree graduate with a full career.
I believe Patsy might have done well in a STEM career . . .
nursing, radiography, speech therapist, who knows? Hearing aid technician.Or are middle income jobs suddenly ludicrous?

You stated Patsy turned to the only path to the source of success she knew. Please own what you said.
Well, Patsy herself did not *choose* a STEM oriented career for herself, did she? She chose a major that is primarily speaking and writing. I'm struggling to understand why you've convinced yourself Patsy was STEM material and why that's important for you.

I've not seen what Patsy did professionally to support herself after she finished her major in journalism. Do you know? That might cast some light on her abilities beyond turning class work in on time, passing tests, and paying fees. Why Atlanta after college? Did a job take her there? I'd truly love to know more of Patsy beyond just the limited view of her parenting, social life, and housekeeping. I do understand there's much more to Patsy than that, I just can't find it. I'd love to get a feel for her from those who knew her best and a history of her professional work and independent life before JR and during their courtship. Please share what you know.
 
  • #1,536
One thing I feel I can say for certain about this case, is that for those of us who have followed it for many years (me from day one), there are strong opinions and emotions. The other thing that is certain, is that we do not have definitive answers on a lot of things. I sincerely hope that one day we might....seems like a long shot though. I'm not convinced that further DNA testing will give us the answers we crave, even with the advancement in that technology. But I fully agree that it's worth testing. We just have to be patient and confident that they will do that when the time is right. There is only so much DNA left is my understanding.

Yes, the police made a lot of mistakes especially on day one. But there is much more that plays into the whole story that begs questioning too. The interference and obstruction of the DA's office played a big role too.

Bottom line is we all want answers, we all want to see justice for JonBenet.
Absolutely! What ever the outcome, I hope JonBenet gets her justice. What do you think about the bowl of pineapple? That’s really strange! I’ve read about the sample from jonbenets small intestine being re tested in 1998 and it was found to contain cherries and grapes as well as the pineapple. It’s possible she ate the cherries and grapes at home, the whites apparently never served pineapple at their Christmas party. The bowl of pineapple on the kitchen table and the pineapple in jonbenets small intestine is a big “coincidence”, too big of a coincidence. I think she ate that pineapple. In the crime scene video footage of the house, there’s also a glass on the opposite end of the table matching the empty glass of tea that was next to the pineapple and two ornate silver table knives matching the spoon in the pineapple. It looks like the family or a group of people had been eating there together. It’s highly unlikely an intruder would set the table, make tea and feed Jonbenet pineapple. Do you know if the bowl, glasses and cutlery were kept as evidence so they could be DNA tested? I honestly feel like the family ate at that table before JonBenet was murdered.
 
  • #1,537
STEM stands for science, technology, engineering and mathematics and refers to any subjects that fall under these four disciplines not journalism.
Right, and thank you. I assumed that anyone who used the term STEM knew what it is. I'm curious why that claim that Patsy was a STEM girl. I think maybe she just meant Patsy managed to finish a bachelor's degree and move away.
 
  • #1,538
Well, Patsy herself did not *choose* a STEM oriented career for herself, did she? She chose a major that is primarily speaking and writing. I'm struggling to understand why you've convinced yourself Patsy was STEM material and why that's important for you.

I've not seen what Patsy did professionally to support herself after she finished her major in journalism. Do you know? That might cast some light on her abilities beyond turning class work in on time, passing tests, and paying fees. Why Atlanta after college? Did a job take her there? I'd truly love to know more of Patsy beyond just the limited view of her parenting, social life, and housekeeping. I do understand there's much more to Patsy than that, I just can't find it. I'd love to get a feel for her from those who knew her best and a history of her professional work and independent life before JR and during their courtship. Please share what you know.
I don't have all that information. I have made my points. Have a good evening.
 
  • #1,539
This is patsys writing prior to the murder.
This is cursive writing not printing.
Of course they look different
They are different styles of writing.
You would expect different letter formation. .My print writing and cursive writing are very very different.
 
  • #1,540
I'd like to add to my concerns and questions about JBR's fecal incontinence at the age of 6. Having adults wipe their butts is something toddlers come out of infancy as feeling "normal" for their routine caregivers. As they move through the developmental stages of toilet training and maturing, they eventually learn to wipe themselves, flush, pull their own pants up, wash their hands. By the age of anywhere from 3-4 mostdevelop a natural modesty and independence that leads them to want to do these things themselves. That stage is followed by a general embarrassment at anyone else being that intimately involved in their bathrooming and private parts, certainly by the age of 6.

JbR apparently lacked that natural modesty and embarrassment. In fact, she would *ask* to have her private parts attended to. She seemed to accept fecal incontinence as normal. I'm wondering if she ever was embarrassed at having to have her panties changed while playing at friends' houses and having fecally soiled panties returned to her mother and beingngiven panties that belinged to her friends. None of that is normal, at least at the age of 6.

I think I'll leave it right there for now. As a social worker, this would have been noted, highlighted, and handed over to professional counselors, doctors, and those who would have interviewed her, possibly through play therapy. Did the grand jury see those notes? If Patsy's own father sexually abused her and then Patsy let him care for JBR while she was in cancer treatment, would that be considered willfull endangerment?
 
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