FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[kaen]

If he bought his gun safe new, he would have been given the keys (if there were keys) or the combination on a card (if it was a combination). We should not forget that he was trained as part of his school's JROTC marksmanship team. I am sure they went over gun safety and storage.

 

[x_files]

It is actually the other way around. He could not bond with anyone or anything

That's what I'm thinking he already had a severe anti-social disorder. What a nightmare. Therapy can help but it needs to happen asap and it doesn't seem enough people are trained in it.

 

[kaen]

re: the gun cabinet purchase

"They made Cruz buy a locking gun safe to put in his room the day he moved in. Cruz had a handful of guns, including the AR-15 and two other rifles that James Snead said would be considered assault rifles. Cruz, a hunter, also had knives, BB guns and pellet guns.

Snead thought he had the only key to the cabinet but has figured out Cruz must have kept a key for himself. The family kept their own rifles, bought after a burglary a couple of years ago, in a separate locked cabinet."

"Kimberly Snead said she took Cruz to a therapist five days before the shooting. He took a business card and was figuring out what his health insurance could cover, according to the Sun Sentinel. The Sneads insisted Cruz take adult education classes and drove him to school every day. He did not have a car, but rode a bicycle to work at a nearby Dollar Tree."


http://nbc4i.com/2018/02/18/family-...ct-after-death-of-his-parents-speaks-out/amp/

I doubt he bought one that had a single key because that is unusual. But, gun cabinet manuals come with a serial number that can used to get a duplicate key if needed. The number is usually somewhere on the back of the manual.

 

[Elley Mae]

It could very well be that the boys already had such severe behavioral issues that she didn't think she could raise them as a single mother.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Exactly what I thought. I have wondered about the father’s heart attack.

 

[Betty P]

This might have been posted yesterday, but I missed it. Interesting article about the family that first took in NC after his mom died:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...amily-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

From your link

James, 48, is a decorated army veteran and a military intelligence analyst who served stints in the Middle East between 1988 and 1996. Kimberly, 49, is a neonatal intensive care nurse who cares for premature and ill babies.

They told Cruz there would be strict rules in their home.

“I told him there’d be rules and he followed every rule to the T,” James said.

BBM

Two people with past training that would have allowed them to notice symptoms of severe mental illness. In addition, NC demonstrates he is very capable of following rules and presenting himself well to these people. No problem with his social skills in this instance.

From what these people observed, it doesn't sound like NC is autistic or mentally ill to the degree that he can't adapt his behavior and do what's necessary to get along with others. The fact he did so with these people, who he needed to give him a place to live and food to eat, indicates he is capable of manipulating people to get what he wants.

IMO, this looks like classic sociopathic behavior. He's very capable of getting along with others, of socializing of getting along in the world. He just didn't want to do that all the time. He made his own choices about behavior that ended up getting him kicked out of school. Those actions were deliberate. He's very much in control of himself.

ETA: As for his reports of "hearing voices", that seems very unlikely. Someone with that degree of mental illness (auditory hallucinations) would definitely be exhibiting other symptoms, especially if they're not taking medication. As a highly trained nurse, Kimberly would have recognized those symptoms.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

In one of the previous reports upthread & so that we don’t cast disrespect to NC’s adoptive mother, it stated N.C. at age 4 was diagnosed with “developmental delays”.

What do these “developmental delays” look like in a day in day out, living with this person manifest itself to be? How difficult was it?

Did N.C. refuse to urinate and deficate in the bathroom or was he still wearing diapers? Was he smearing all over the walls & peeing on the rugs?
Could he not feed himself? In frustration, would he throw food everywhere?
Could he not speak and therefore in frustration, pound his head into walls until he bled?
Would he commit harm to others and animals because his “delay” caused him to have a lack of feelings?
Would he react inappropriately to normal stimuli such as hugging or cuddling which would induce outbursts, retaliation, pinching, harming?

My point is this: how does “developmental delays” manifest themselves in real life at age 4? And before we cast stones against a parent of one who has a child with this diagnosis......what symptoms are expressed? Are they difficult to deal with?

Are they continued into teen hood and how do they express? What’s daily living like?

And we have heard from articles that he was at age 19 “hearing voices”.

 

[CARIIS]

I wonder if NC stayed in the ROTC program the whole time he was a student at MKD High School. This group is
highly structured with rules and discipline. These boys are sort of preparing to go into the real military after graduation.
My own son was in Civil Air Patrol in HS and had to wear a uniform, very short haircut, etc. and were looked upon
as sort of straight laced students. Doesn't seem like NC would have fit in very well with his demeanor.

I dont know i find the rotc stuff bewildering. Its not like socialization skills come and go !! It seems as if peers in the program would have the same response to unusual behaviors and the rotc leaders would too

i wonder if this is something that got into the narrative and is confused. It same thing with good grades being held back two times does not indicate academic performance.

He might have done better in the placement for severely impaired young people? I wonder how long he was there as well?



it was the gov of FL that started the rumor about gas masks and canisters ! Go politicians!!

 

[Elley Mae]

The gunman had clearly prepared for the attack, Senator Bill Nelson of Florida said in an interview after speaking to the F.B.I.

“The shooter wore a gas mask, had smoke grenades, and he set off the fire alarm so the kids would come out of the classrooms,” said Mr. Nelson, citing details he learned from the F.B.I.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/us/parkland-school-shooting.html

 

[CARIIS]

They are lucky to be alive and not his first victims of that day.

I still think Valentines day is component here

He stated he does not go to school on VD - found that telling and makes sense -- highlights lonliness

and if we look at a big pic for him if the gfriend was not like more exaggerated in his opinion it is the first time to be totally alone after mother died separated from sibling living in new environ

etc

 

[kaen]

In one of the previous reports upthread & so that we don’t cast disrespect to NC’s adoptive mother, it stated N.C. at age 4 was diagnosed with “developmental delays”.

What do these “developmental delays” look like in a day in day out, living with this person manifest itself to be? How difficult was it?

Did N.C. refuse to urinate and deficate in the bathroom or was he still wearing diapers? Was he smearing all over the walls & peeing on the rugs?
Could he not feed himself? In frustration, would he throw food everywhere?
Could he not speak and therefore in frustration, pound his head into walls until he bled?
Would he commit harm to others and animals because his “delay” caused him to have a lack of feelings?
Would he react inappropriately to normal stimuli such as hugging or cuddling which would induce outbursts, retaliation, pinching, harming?

My point is this: how does “developmental delays” manifest themselves in real life at age 4? And before we cast stones against a parent of one who has a child with this diagnosis......what symptoms are expressed? Are they difficult to deal with?

Are they continued into teen hood and how do they express? What’s daily living like?

And we have heard from articles that he was at age 19 “hearing voices”.

This is from a great website by the University of Michigan. I have shared this with parents of children I worked with. It is a primer on developmental delays for parents.

Developmental Delay
What is developmental delay?
Developmental Delay is when your child does not reach their developmental milestones at the expected times. It is an ongoing major or minor delay in the process of development. If your child is temporarily lagging behind, that is not called developmental delay. Delay can occur in one or many areas—for example, gross or fine motor, language, social, or thinking skills.

Developmental Delay is most often a diagnosis made by a doctor based on strict guidelines. Usually, though, the parent is the first to notice that their child is not progressing at the same rate as other children the same age. If you think your child may be “slow,” or “seems behind,” talk with your child's doctor about it. In some cases, your pediatrician might pick up a delay during an office visit. It will probably take several visits and possibly a referral to a developmental specialist to be sure that the delay is not just a temporary lag. Your child's doctor may use a set of screening tools during regular well-child visits.

The first three years of a child's life are an amazing time of development...

...and what happens during those years stays with a child for a lifetime. That's why it's so important to watch for signs of delays in development, and to get help if you suspect problems. The sooner a delayed child gets early intervention, the better their progress will be. So, if you have concerns, act early.

What causes developmental delay?
Developmental delay can have many different causes, such as genetic causes (like Down syndrome), or complications of pregnancy and birth (like prematurity or infections). Often, however, the specific cause is unknown. Some causes can be easily reversed if caught early enough, such as hearing loss from chronic ear infections, or lead poisoning.

http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/devdel.htm

 

[Gardenista]

I dont know i find the rotc stuff bewildering. Its not like socialization skills come and go !! It seems as if peers in the program would have the same response to unusual behaviors and the rotc leaders would too

i wonder if this is something that got into the narrative and is confused. It same thing with good grades being held back two times does not indicate academic performance.

He might have done better in the placement for severely impaired young people? I wonder how long he was there as well?



it was the gov of FL that started the rumor about gas masks and canisters ! Go politicians!!

I read they got that info from the FBI

 

[Elley Mae]

Israel said the suspect didn't have a gas mask during the attack, as had been previously reported. He said investigators did uncover a balaclava, or face mask.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florid...media-briefing-today-02-16-2018-live-updates/

 

[x_files]

From your link



BBM

Two people with past training that would have allowed them to notice symptoms of severe mental illness. In addition, NC demonstrates he is very capable of following rules and presenting himself well to these people. No problem with his social skills in this instance.

From what these people observed, it doesn't sound like NC is autistic or mentally ill to the degree that he can't adapt his behavior and do what's necessary to get along with others. The fact he did so with these people, who he needed to give him a place to live and food to eat, indicates he is capable of manipulating people to get what he wants.

IMO, this looks like classic sociopathic behavior. He's very capable of getting along with others, of socializing of getting along in the world. He just didn't want to do that all the time. He made his own choices about behavior that ended up getting him kicked out of school. Those actions were deliberate. He's very much in control of himself.

ETA: As for his reports of "hearing voices", that seems very unlikely. Someone with that degree of mental illness (auditory hallucinations) would definitely be exhibiting other symptoms, especially if they're not taking medication. As a highly trained nurse, Kimberly would have recognized those symptoms.

Betty, I agree with you. He knew when to turn on the charm. Sounds like he had power issues with his adoptive mom.
Now, if we could find a cure for sociopathic/psychopathic behaviors!

 

[x_files]

I still think Valentines day is component here

He stated he does not go to school on VD - found that telling and makes sense -- highlights lonliness

and if we look at a big pic for him if the gfriend was not like more exaggerated in his opinion it is the first time to be totally alone after mother died separated from sibling living in new environ

etc

yes, I agree. It was a trigger. He also was expelled or quit HS last Feb 8th or 11th in 2017 then purchased a gun. He planned this for over a year.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The first three years of a child's life are an amazing time of development...

...and what happens during those years stays with a child for a lifetime.

Well we know that Nikolas was already 2 years old when he was adopted, and I'm guessing it would have taken many months before his parents realised there was a significant problem, so it's possible he might have already been beyond that window before anything was done to address the developmental delays.

 

[Betty P]

yes, I agree. It was a trigger. He also was expelled or quit HS last Feb 8th or 11th in 2017 then purchased a gun. He planned this for over a year.

Aha! This part of the timeline is interesting. He gets expelled from school, then purchases the AR-15 shortly thereafter. The attack on the school falls near the anniversary of his expulsion.

JMO, he was probably considering shooting up the school a year ago when he bought the AR-15. He probably planned it over that year, but managed to resist the urge. His mom's death and disruption in his private life probably spurred him on, but he waited until the anniversary/Valentines Day in order to make some sort of statement.

This guy was looking forward to the media attention he would get for doing this. It wasn't impulsive, it was planned and considered over at least 12 months. He picked a special anniversary date and seemed motivated by revenge. He didn't commit suicide, he wanted to escape and observe the attention his crimes would generate.

I'm adding some narcissism to his personality profile. We'll learn more about his motives and plans as the process moves along.

 

[x_files]

Aha! This part of the timeline is interesting. He gets expelled from school, then purchases the AR-15 shortly thereafter. The attack on the school falls near the anniversary of his expulsion.

JMO, he was probably considering shooting up the school a year ago when he bought the AR-15. He probably planned it over that year, but managed to resist the urge. His mom's death and disruption in his private life probably spurred him on, but he waited until the anniversary/Valentines Day in order to make some sort of statement.

This guy was looking forward to the media attention he would get for doing this. It wasn't impulsive, it was planned and considered over at least 12 months. He picked a special anniversary date and seemed motivated by revenge. He didn't commit suicide, he wanted to escape and observe the attention his crimes would generate.

I'm adding some narcissism to his personality profile. We'll learn more about his motives and plans as the process moves along.

I agree. It wasn't a long year of planning/plotting.
Premediated mass murder.
I wish we knew about his biological parents, DNA, genetic, if this is inherited.

 

[enelram]

Well we know that Nikolas was already 2 years old when he was adopted, and I'm guessing it would have taken many months before his parents realised there was a significant problem, so it's possible he might have already been beyond that window before anything was done to address the developmental delays.

Thanks for this. Also I wonder where he was for his first 2 yrs. Isn't this the time period when babies attach maternally and emotionally

to their primary caregiver. ?? So could this be one of reasons he was unable to bond with his parent(s)?? Too late?
Was the window of opportunity gone for infant/mother bonding?

 

[enelram]

He was only a student at MSD HS from 1/13/16 to Feb. 8, 2017 when he was expelled. Basically one year.
Where was he prior? One of the 2 private schools he was expelled from?
Why haven't we heard any reports from those 2 schools?

 

[HMSHood]

From your link



BBM

Two people with past training that would have allowed them to notice symptoms of severe mental illness. In addition, NC demonstrates he is very capable of following rules and presenting himself well to these people. No problem with his social skills in this instance.

From what these people observed, it doesn't sound like NC is autistic or mentally ill to the degree that he can't adapt his behavior and do what's necessary to get along with others. The fact he did so with these people, who he needed to give him a place to live and food to eat, indicates he is capable of manipulating people to get what he wants.

IMO, this looks like classic sociopathic behavior. He's very capable of getting along with others, of socializing of getting along in the world. He just didn't want to do that all the time. He made his own choices about behavior that ended up getting him kicked out of school. Those actions were deliberate. He's very much in control of himself.

ETA: As for his reports of "hearing voices", that seems very unlikely. Someone with that degree of mental illness (auditory hallucinations) would definitely be exhibiting other symptoms, especially if they're not taking medication. As a highly trained nurse, Kimberly would have recognized those symptoms.

I am thinking that Nikolas Cruz is a psychopath.