FL - Five killed, 8 wounded in shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport, 6 Jan 2017

[katydid23]

there is zero evidence he was posting on jihadist sites right now, and he didnt claim he was talking to people online, he said he was being chased and controlled by secret online messages, hearing voices, and being forced to watch ISIS videos. i usually go with what the facts show, so if someone goes to the FBI on their own and says i dont want to hurt anyone but im being mindcontrolled by the CIA and sent secret online messages from the CIA - i dont need to come up with elaborate stories for why it might be something else that is happening.

He said he was being forced to watch ISIS videos. So he was online watching ISIS videos. The ONLY way he could watch those videos was if he was posting somewhere or downloading somewhere on a Jihadist site. Those are the facts.

He had been recently investigated by the LE/FBI for illegal and his computer was confiscated and searched. FACT.

So it is not that big of a leap to think he might have been worried that the FBI was going to find his footsteps into the Jihadist sites.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I wonder if the "voices" told him to drop the gun and lay face down, spread eagle on the floor. That seems like a rational decision in order to remain alive IMO.

We know he told the FBI he was hearing voices but I have to wonder if he was.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/07/airport-gunman-sent-panicked-passengers-fleeing-for-lives/

Despite his mental evaluation, U.S. Attorney Karen Loeffler said Santiago would have been able to legally possess a gun because he had not been judged mentally ill, which is a high standard.

 

[Inthedetails]

^bbm sbm^. katydid23 Thx for info, many links & contrib's to this thread. I know you did not ask this ^ but some posts did.

Can someone pls link basis for state, local or fed authorities to confiscate his gun(s)?
Under statutes of US, Alaska, or Florida or any other jurisdiction that would apply to him?

AFAIK---
--- despite any psych hosp stay he may have had, he was not adjudicated by a court to be mentally {insane or incompetent, dangerous to self or others, what-ev terminology in statute}.
---he had no felony convictions, which would have disqualified him from lawfully (continuing to possess) or buying firearm under many st. statutes.
---although there were dom-violence 911 or equiv. calls, no DV convictions, basis for disqualifying in some states (maybe he had DV arrests? IDK)

Anyone? TIA.

I heard on an NPR segment this afternoon that Alaska does not have laws about this, but instead defers to whatever the Federal law is regarding guns. Sorry I don't have a link - but heard it on the radio. (I will look for a link to the radio program for reference.)

jmo

ETA: I think it was on All Things Considered this afternoon. I don't have a link (yet) that goes to audio.

 

[drjones]

He said he was being forced to watch ISIS videos. So he was online watching ISIS videos. The ONLY way he could watch those videos was if he was posting somewhere or downloading somewhere on a Jihadist site. Those are the facts.

He had been recently investigated by the LE/FBI for illegal and his computer was confiscated and searched. FACT.

So it is not that big of a leap to think he might have been worried that the FBI was going to find his footsteps into the Jihadist sites.

those arent facts at all, there is no evidence he ever watched an actual ISIS video (he probably did but it is not a proven fact), if he was watching them he didnt have to be posting anything anywhere, nor did he have to be visiting any jihadist website. he may have been, but it is not a fact, nor is it necessary for any of those things to be true to explain things.

 

[drjones]

I wonder if the "voices" told him to drop the gun and lay face down, spread eagle on the floor. That seems like a rational decision in order to remain alive IMO.

We know he told the FBI he was hearing voices but I have to wonder if he was.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/07/airport-gunman-sent-panicked-passengers-fleeing-for-lives/

Despite his mental evaluation, U.S. Attorney Karen Loeffler said Santiago would have been able to legally possess a gun because he had not been judged mentally ill, which is a high standard.

he had reported hearing voices to other people going back to at least august. could he have been lying about it the whole time? sure, who knows.

 

[katydid23]

those arent facts at all, there is no evidence he ever watched an actual ISIS video (he probably did but it is not a proven fact), if he was watching them he didnt have to be posting anything anywhere, nor did he have to be visiting any jihadist website. he may have been, but it is not a fact, nor is it necessary for any of those things to be true to explain things.

OK, if we assume he never watched any ISIS videos, just went to the FBI to confess to doing so, then you are correct. But I have a hard time believing that. Especially after seeing the picture of him doing the one finger 'Allah is the one' salute.

I don't know where he would be watching Jihadist videos if he was not on a pro-jihadi site. Maybe there are sites that have them and I have just not run across them?

But if he felt he was doing something wrong and was being mind controlled then I would think he was going to sites that were against his Army regulations. JMO

 

[katydid23]

OK, if we assume he never watched any ISIS videos, just went to the FBI to confess to doing so, then you are correct. But I have a hard time believing that. Especially after seeing the picture of him doing the one finger 'Allah is the one' salute.

I don't know where he would be watching Jihadist videos if he was not on a pro-jihadi site. Maybe there are sites that have them and I have just not run across them?

But if he felt he was doing something wrong and was being mind controlled then I would think he was going to sites that were against his Army regulations. JMO

I know I am not explaining myself clearly but I will try one more time, lol...

I believe there is credible evidence that he was posting on middle Eastern pro-Jihadist sites as early as 2007.

Then he went into the National Guard and then the US Army. [2010]

After he returned stateside, he got caught up in a investigation and his computer was taken by LE/FBI and searched. [2011/12]

He was in Reserves at this time I believe.

I think it is quite possible that he became paranoid about being investigated and his online presence being tracked. And that might have been the motivation for him to go to the FBI and say he was having mental problems and thought the CIA was mind controlling him.

Especially if he had actually continued to communicate with the enemy....

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

he had reported hearing voices to other people going back to at least august. could he have been lying about it the whole time? sure, who knows.

I wonder if any of those people he reported to tried getting him help.

 

[Inthedetails]

I know I am not explaining myself clearly but I will try one more time, lol...

I believe there is credible evidence that he was posting on middle Eastern pro-Jihadist sites as early as 2007.

Then he went into the National Guard and then the US Army. [2010]

After he returned stateside, he got caught up in a investigation and his computer was taken by LE/FBI and searched. [2011/12]

He was in Reserves at this time I believe.

I think it is quite possible that he became paranoid about being investigated and his online presence being tracked. And that might have been the motivation for him to go to the FBI and say he was having mental problems and thought the CIA was mind controlling him.

Especially if he had actually continued to communicate with the enemy....

I think this is very possible, but would add that he could've worried about being monitored even if he didn't communicate with any enemy in recent times (or ever). It would seem reasonable for LE to tell him during the child investigation that whatever he did on the computer could be detected. Nothing is truly "deleted." If he had viewed ISIS videos in the past, that might have haunted him more and more over the years until he was convinced he was not only being watched but being lured.

jmopinion, thinking aloud

 

[drjones]

"I believe there is credible evidence that he was posting on middle Eastern pro-Jihadist sites as early as 2007."

are you referring to the articles that also mention this http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/esteb...florida-facebook-new-jersey-victims-military/ ;

[FONT=&amp]"However, Iowa Congressman Steve King raised a story [/FONT]circulating on conservative media sites[FONT=&amp] that alleged Santiago had gone by a Muslim name on MySpace 10 years ago and “and recorded Islamic religious music on the site” with one song’s name meaning “there is no God but Allah.”

is that what you are referring to, and the other claims made by the articles mentioned there?[/FONT]

 

[human]

So he went to Iraq. Watched buddies get blown up and is on the side of ISIS?

Right

 

[Inthedetails]

So he went to Iraq. Watched buddies get blown up and is on the side of ISIS?

Right

I am now questioning the story about his buddies being blown up. I believed it at first (and it could certainly be true), but I read yesterday that he never saw combat. For the moment, I'm not taking his word that his mates were killed by a grenade in front of him until there is confirmation.

JMO at the moment.

 

[Tawny]

This thread is so far down a rabbit hole.

I'm stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill waiting for someone to show me one example of a jihadist who has ever in their entire life gone to the FBI for help because they "didn't want to hurt anyone."

And then tell me the logic, if you're planning to actually follow through with a jihadist attack, why going to the FBI and becoming known to them will help you succeed. I know I know, "building a defense..." because jihadists so often give a flying rat's furry butt about their fate after a successful attack...

(gif for humor because I need some laughs in life)

 

[katydid23]

So he went to Iraq. Watched buddies get blown up and is on the side of ISIS?

Right

There are reports that he was very upset by watching children and innocents being killed. If he was in Iraq, it is quite possible he was speaking about citizens dying from allied bombings. That could have turned him sympathetic towards Jihad.

 

[katydid23]

This thread is so far down a rabbit hole.

I'm stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill waiting for someone to show me one example of a jihadist who has ever in their entire life gone to the FBI for help because they "didn't want to hurt anyone."

And then tell me the logic, if you're planning to actually follow through with a jihadist attack, why going to the FBI and becoming known to them will help you succeed. I know I know, "building a defense..." because jihadists so often give a flying rat's furry butt about their fate after a successful attack...

(gif for humor because I need some laughs in life)

The rabbit hole exists because of the conflicting information.

BEFORE he went to the FBI he was already under investigation for possible illegal on his computer. So it is not like he was not already feeling like he was on LE's radar. It was not totally out of the blue that he might contact them about his online presence. He had already had his computer taken and searched.

I think he is a mixture of Jihadist sympathizer and mental health issues.

 

[Inthedetails]

This thread is so far down a rabbit hole.

I'm stiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill waiting for someone to show me one example of a jihadist who has ever in their entire life gone to the FBI for help because they "didn't want to hurt anyone."

And then tell me the logic, if you're planning to actually follow through with a jihadist attack, why going to the FBI and becoming known to them will help you succeed. I know I know, "building a defense..." because jihadists so often give a flying rat's furry butt about their fate after a successful attack...

Bolded and snipped by me



In dealing with a mentally-ill person, I don't think we can come up with a logical explanation. We don't need to know what makes sense to us (or to past terrorists); we need to figure out what made sense to him.

FWIW, I don't know if he was an ISIS wanna-be or just a really messed up man.

jmo

 

[human]

I am now questioning the story about his buddies being blown up. I believed it at first (and it could certainly be true), but I read yesterday that he never saw combat. For the moment, I'm not taking his word that his mates were killed by a grenade in front of him until there is confirmation.

JMO at the moment.

What was his position in Iraq?

 

[Tawny]

Bolded and snipped by me



In dealing with a mentally-ill person, I don't think we can come up with a logical explanation. We don't need to know what makes sense to us (or to past terrorists); we need to figure out what made sense to him.

FWIW, I don't know if he was an ISIS wanna-be or just a really messed up man.

jmo

I fully agree.

I think that's the problem. There are a lot of people trying to apply an extreme amount of logic (building a defense literally years in advance by lying about buddies being blown up, lying about voices etc) and mental fortitude to a dude who, by all evidence and accounts by everyone who encountered him, points to a very mentally disturbed individual who tried to get help.

But terrorism!

lol jmo

 

[Tawny]

What was his position in Iraq?

AFAIK, combat engineer.

 

[drjones]

two people from his unit were killed by an IED during the time he was deployed with them, whether or not he was there at the time i cant say, but in the normal course of duty he certainly would have been. im going to assume this has to be the story about him watching two of his friends get hit by a grenade (it was an IED roadside bomb)


he was deployed with the 1013th - http://nbc4i.com/2017/01/06/what-we-know-about-ft-lauderdale-shooting-suspect-esteban-santiago/

he was there from April 2010 until February 2011 - http://abcnews.go.com/US/esteban-santiago-suspect-fort-lauderdale-attack/story?id=44612498

two of the soldiers he served with were killed during that time - http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/01/14/pr-casualties-serve-reminder-sacrifice.html


i actually remember that story now after seeing it again, it probably stuck with me because i served 8 years as a combat engineer.

RIP Sgt. Jose M Cintron Rosado and Spc. Jose A Delgado Arroyo