FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

[Curious Me]

I can't force myself to watch the interview again. I remember when the father said AH was working in Dad's dental office and getting too personal with patients and I think he used the word "religious", but when Dr.P asked him to explain then the father said AH was telling patients how he wanted to help people. Is the father confusing being religious with wanting to help people? I have doubts that AH was actually talking religion that much. Are there other examples of what Dr.P diagnoses as religiosity?

Saying something about the devil to his friend one time doesn't mean getting religious or being mentally ill. People blame the devil all the time for tempting them to drink again or go back to steroids. Just saying, hey..."The devil made me do it."

Father also said AH saw homeless people for the first time. I must have heard that wrong though. I guess I think maybe the father would find it extremely weird for AH to not want to stay ambitious and competitive just to go help poor or homeless people. AH said he didn't want to live as a lie anymore. What did he mean then? How was AH living a lie?

I know his father loves his son, but I think he also might have had some of his own rigid opinions for his son's future. I just wonder if the father felt there'd be some kind of stigma if he took AH for real mental help. Dad said he called a psychologist friend that day, if I believe it, but he never actually had a conversation with him before AH became completely, mysteriously unhinged.

Just my own thoughts

 

[CARIIS]

Had not seen this one Googles images, only sharing thoughts not being mean, I cant imagine where more than one other person could be with the couple!

Levity break: Its got a Key West, after a tornado, look/feel!

Another thing to ponder is the tox may just come back unable to ascertain. I would think steroid would be easier ti detect moo

 

[CARIIS]

 

[Curious Me]

This is just a funny story I want to share. It really happened, but seems unbelievable now.

Long, long ago in the horse and buggy days, :giggle: my OB/GYN's medical office kept pap smear slides near the front window in a little box. I was making my next appt. and my toddler was standing quietly nearby. Somehow he reached into that box and stole some woman's pap smear slide! Honest! I didn't find out about it until we got to the playground. I had to go back to return it to the doctor's office.

 

[CARIIS]

younger !

 

[Curious Me]

CARIIS, thank you for the enlarged pic of the Stevens couple's garage. I don't see very many bottles of caustic fluids around. There's that cupboard, maybe in there, but the first place I'd try if I was thirsty is that cooler. I'm surprised AH didn't get tangled in all those hanging lights.

 

[CARIIS]

CARIIS, thank you for the enlarged pic of the Stevens couple's garage. I don't see very many bottles of caustic fluids around. There's that cupboard, maybe in there, but the first place I'd try if I was thirsty is that cooler. I'm surprised AH didn't get tangled in all those hanging lights.

i thought the sem thing about anticpating seeing like paint , thinners paint stuff like that . The only thing I can find of danger would be a cocktail , trip and fall over the stuff on the floor. I have yet to see a tv in there, and after this pic floored that neighbors would not complain about an eyesore - generally speaking communiites like that like perfection. Almost unlived in inside, everything perfect and in their place etc etc

Generally speaking of course. I can deal with clutter above my knee! I am almost break my neck 4.5 x aday from my babies toys! pitts getting old!

moo

 

[glf]

Had not seen this one Googles images, only sharing thoughts not being mean, I cant imagine where more than one other person could be with the couple!

Levity break: Its got a Key West, after a tornado, look/feel!

Yes, their "garage Maj hal", sorry, don't know how to spell that, looks more like a garage mess hall! How could people feel relaxed and having fun out there? Just too much stuff around for me!

 

[danid.dd55]

Yes, their "garage Maj hal", sorry, don't know how to spell that, looks more like a garage mess hall! How could people feel relaxed and having fun out there? Just too much stuff around for me!

Ia this after they were attacked. Maybe it looks like this cause there was a struggle?

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

 

[Curious Me]

Ia this after they were attacked. Maybe it looks like this cause there was a struggle?

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

LE mentioned that everything in the garage was covered in blood after the attacks.

 

[Public_Hysteria]

This case just makes me so incredibly sad. So many lives ruined, and so many questions left unanswered.

IMO, metal illness doesn't explain the whole thing. I strongly believe that he ingested some kind of drug, bath salts being the obvious possibility, because it sounds eerily similar to other cases I've heard about where people have ended up killing and/or cannibalizing other people. I just don't think a sudden mental break explains what happened. From what I've seen, this kid was going through some extreme mental stress, and may have been struggling with an undiagnosed mental illness, but something else had to have happened for him to end up killing two people in such a way.

 

[DropthePuck]

Yes, their "garage Maj hal", sorry, don't know how to spell that, looks more like a garage mess hall! How could people feel relaxed and having fun out there? Just too much stuff around for me!

I think this was taken after the attack, hence the look of disarray. There appears to be blood spatter on the floor by the coffee table and even on the side of the table. There also appears to be broken pieces of a ceramic dish or tray on the floor by the yellow chair. JMO.

 

[glf]

I think this was taken after the attack, hence the look of disarray. There appears to be blood spatter on the floor by the coffee table and even on the side of the table. There also appears to be broken pieces of a ceramic dish or tray on the floor by the yellow chair. JMO.

That could be blood splatter, but I'm not certain. And I would think it would be on things besides the floor if that were the case. I can't imagine getting in a physical fight in there with stuff everywhere! Looks like they needed to have a yard sale!

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Had not seen this one Googles images, only sharing thoughts not being mean, I cant imagine where more than one other person could be with the couple!

Looking inside the garage it has struck me with the animal motif, especially with the stuffed deer head and possibly stuffed bird. I wonder if that played any role in him making animal noises when LE arrived. I know the father blamed chemicals for him making those noises, but I don't think that explains it if he was able to verbalize at least that he'd pass a drug test. Also I wonder what entrances there are to the garage, like I'm not seeing the bar - which AH apparently went to - where if that was on the left, the wife could have entered from a door on the right or at least it could have somehow entered his brain that she's an animal rather than a human. If she started talking, it could have seemed to AH that the deer was talking. I'm sort of reminded from Fawlty Towers when the major thinks he's talking to an animatronic moose. I do really wonder what else - if anything - AH said before going into a coma and what it was in response to with him denying any drug use.

 

[TDW59]

The garage is a cheerful hoard, don't you think? I would bet everything in there is a memento and has a story. Can't help but wonder if the house is a hoard and they have backed themselves out into the garage. No judgment, just observation.

I spent some time last night reading up on roid rage and bath salts, which you all have already done. We know he did weed, and alcohol and I really believe he was struggling with steroids. It is so strongly implied, some of what I have seen him say I would regard as an admission. I also read that steroids could unmask a psychiatric condition. The thought of a psychiatric breakdown + roid rage + alcohol? I have known people who get plenty scary on alcohol alone. But I think we have a strong reason to believe that he was acting under the influence of those 3 factors. Except the alcohol would have shown up right away at the hospital. Could he have been in alcohol withdrawal too? Dad being a boozer and the party in the backyard makes me think it possible Dad might have allowed underage drinking for some time. Dad is dismissive when speaking about just drinking beer. Tho we know he has been in trouble for alcohol.

Please correct me when my memory of these 81 pages is off.

Bath salts came up as a result of remarks from LE? The history and nature of attacks previously associated with bath salts? And a friend making the vague comment that AH was doing things he ought not.? That stuff is frightening in a class all it's own from what I read!

We allowed a neighbor who lives a rough road to visit for a few this week. He has no transportation and my better half takes him to the grocery etc.. I was telling him about this case as I was still working my way thro reading it and he said he had taken bath salts....very nonchalant, as if no big deal, just a stimulant, self medicating. I was too astonished to think what to say in response.

I also went to bed thinking about the conversation about religiosity above. I do see it also but am trying to think of a way to explain what I see. After more coffee lol.

Please forgive my difficulty remembering names.but I think the poster on the previous page pinned it with the understanding of AH drinking a caustic chemical as part of a psychotic rage and self destructiveness, from the garage of the victims. We don't see them in the photo but it is usual that any household has some in a garage. Everything points to a corrosive. I don't find it difficult to believe he shouted out in triumph that they would find no drugs even as the chemicals were taking effect.

I am just speculating and everything I say is moo, of course. Trying along with the rest of you to piece this all together.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Some medical information on pneumonia, especially in relationship to organ failure and trauma:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8273837
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2268994
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/lt.22269/pdf
From what I can tell having pneumonia with organ failure is extremely serious and greatly increases the likelihood of mortality.

 

[glf]

Try

Some medical information on pneumonia, especially in relationship to organ failure and trauma:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8273837
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2268994
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/lt.22269/pdf
From what I can tell having pneumonia with organ failure is extremely serious and greatly increases the likelihood of mortality.

Absolutely! Many people succumb to pneumonia who have other problems going on. Polio, MS, Alzheimer's, cancer, and many others. President Reagan died from pneumonia R/T Alzheimer's. In Austin's situation I believe the pneumonia is directly R/T the caustic substance he drank, weakening his immune system and what seems like slow organ death.

 

[TDW59]

There is general agreement, then, that specific criteria exist that can help to distinguish the mentally ill person with psychosis from the devoutly religious person having mystical experiences. The religious person has insight into the extraordinary nature of their claims, is usually part of a group of people who share their beliefs and experiences (culturally appropriate), does not have other symptoms of mental illness that affect their thought processes, is able to maintain a job and stay out of legal problems, does not harm himself or herself, and usually has a positive outcome over time. Of course, however, there is always the possibility that a mentally ill person (even those with psychotic illness) will have religious beliefs and mystical experiences that are culturally normative and may in fact help that person cope better with their mental illness.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0101-60832007000700013&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

1) It is very common that certain mental illnesses present with religious beliefs and/or delusions, so I am looking for it as a part of the constellation of symptoms.
2) More or less sudden onset, he is trying to cope.with his psychological stress. Normal religious conversion usually occurs in response to interaction with others, to be as succinct as I can be.
3) His focus is on himself, his role rather than a higher power.
4) He claims special powers.
5) Inspirational leaders (Ghandi) do not set out to be great leaders, they are usually working for a specific cause. There are exceptions but even the Dalai Llama calls himself a simple monk. AH does discover or develops a new interest in the homeless. It's a noble and worthy cause, things he wants to be or believes he is. We would have to watch over a sufficient period of time for realistic activities and commitment.
6) He is speaking/behaving in socially/culturally inappropriate ways. It rings true to me that he was embarrassing in the dental office, probably because I have seen it quite a few times. He can save dad. Whatever was saidin the videos that have made several of you think they /he is odd maybe? Dad said it was religious in nature but then reported it being about being of service, probably indicative of grandiosity which goes hand in hand with religiosity.
7) All of the above appears concurrently with other mental illness indicators.

That is just off the top of my head. Does it make sense? I haven't watched his youtube stuff.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Not that I think this is likely but also I don't see it out of the realm of possibility that AH could have Wilson's Disease, which these are article on two British teens who had been misdiagnosed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ctors-told-SIX-times-just-moody-teenager.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ager-emergency-transplant-turning-YELLOW.html

 

[Curious Me]

Not that I think this is likely but also I don't see it out of the realm of possibility that AH could have Wilson's Disease, which these are article on two British teens who had been misdiagnosed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ctors-told-SIX-times-just-moody-teenager.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ager-emergency-transplant-turning-YELLOW.html

I've read up on Wilson's Disease before and connected it with clumsiness and Parkinson type symptoms, but there's more to it and you may be on to something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson's_disease