For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[WillChgo]

[CODE]

[/CODE]

Thanks you! Great Post! I too have been on this ride for 3 yrs and feel a little insulted when others just assume I didn't read the docs, the charges, the jury instructions, etc., and the fact is that the jury came back with the only verdict they could BASED ON THE LAW.

There are disagreements here about what exactly is evidence or not, how to interpret the evidence, and how to interpret the law.

Many good arguments for acquittal have been made here and I agree that it is insulting to assume that those who make them are ignorant or misinformed.

However, it is also insulting, even if you did not mean to insult anyone, to state that that it is a FACT that the jury came to the only legally valid verdict.

I strongly disagree with the jury's verdict and do not respect the manner of Jury deliberations, as described by the jurors themselves. I do respect the time and energy expended here both by those who, based on evidence and inference, argue for the merits of a guilty or not guilty verdict. This is my opinion.

 

[pcrum12]

I may be wrong, but I believe in her deposition she said something like, GA thought it was an accident that snowballed out of control and didn't believe he could raise a daughter who would kill someone.

and, i guess im really wrong, but I SWEAR I remember JA questioning RC (or the other name she uses for which I am still not sure why? Does anybody know the answer to this?) and she did admit on the stand that he said "he thought it was an accident that snowballed out of control."

and going further, what father would believe otherwise anyway? If something happened to my child (GOD FORBID) and I was somehow involved (NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS) my father would be the first one screaming IT WAS AN ACCIDENT! This doesn't mean GA knew this for fact, most likely what any father would think if their child was being accused of murder.

Here's her depo. You've got to read it all in context. This conversation starts on page 16
ETA: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/33391142/River-Cruz-Krystal-Holloway-OCSO-Interviews

 

[Deleted member 39678]

You do make some valid points. She flat out said that GA knew she was in a relationship. They were both cheaters! She obviously isn't anymore trustworthy in that sense than GA. But she still came across like she was coming clean in a sense. She came across more honest than him. And she doesn't have a daughter standing accused of murdering her own daughter. His character and demeanor is a heck of alot more important than hers. His daughter is fighting for her life FGS.

The text he sent her, Thinking of you, I need you in my life. Now I don't know about you but if that was my husband texting another woman, I'd pretty much figure somethings going on. Add to that him going over to her house multiple times while his wife thinks he is out looking for a job to "comfort" her. Sorry, If they didn't have an affair, he sure was trying too IMO.

I do believe he made the statement just as KH stated. When JA had her read the part that had "believe it was" or "think it was", she clearly pointed out that HIS statement to her was before that line and what he had her read was her words not GA's. It's certainly possible that she was looking for her 15 minutes of fame. But to me she appeared truthful. And she didn't want to admit the affair but once the media learned of it she did go back to investigators and told them the truth. I guess if she got paid for the NE article she figured it was compensation for the money GA took from her lol. Regardless, the affair didn't mean squat to me.

However, his combativeness about the duct tape, chasing Casey (or not), june 24th gas can incident, driving the car home and going to work after smelling the smell of death, some of the recorded jailhouse conversation with Casey, very weird and which gas cans shenanigans with JB did make him look suspicious. Something with his demeanor throughout from JUNE to July on to the present is off. Something not right. All of course is just my opinion.

I agree with much you say. But come on, RC/KH or what ever her real name is didn't have to say that she and George had a sexual relationship.She could have left it at their being good friends and that's why he confided in her. She changed her story to make it sound better to sell to the media.Just MOO.

 

[GracieLu]

BBM - I believe her real name is Krystal Holloway. She also goes by River Crews because her father used to call her River and Crews is her mother's maiden name. Odd - but that's the explanation she gave in an interview I believe.

thank you so much.... and not to be snarky or get a time out - I thought River Crews was her professional name (not going to say what profession because I might get a time out - and not that i have a problem w/that anyway - although its something I couldn't do - but as long as you're not hurting anyone, live and let live I guess)....

Something about her wasn't right though imo. When she interviewed on IS after testifying and said something about GA having to take some responsibility for the affair too, that she walked right past CA and looked her straight in the eye because she has nothing to be ashamed of, and she was the one to make the first move, I thought WOW, what a heartless *****! Lets just forget the fact that their granddaughter was murdered and thrown away like garbage, lets just center on GA taking responsibility for an alleged (sp?) affair!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Here's her depo. You've got to read it all in context. This conversation starts on page 16

Here's a link to her statement to LE . I think that's what you are referring to.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23070163/detail.html

 

[goldenlover]

Thanks you! Great Post! I too have been on this ride for 3 yrs and feel a little insulted when others just assume I didn't read the docs, the charges, the jury instructions, etc., and the fact is that the jury came back with the only verdict they could BASED ON THE LAW.

Thank both of you...I too have followed this case from the beginning, read the docs, the charges, the jury instructions and watched the trial.. I also feel it is fact that the the jury got the verdict correct..based on the law.

 

[kelian36]

Ok. You believe that since a drowning was possible, without any evidence to support that theory,the jury should come to the conclusion that is what actually happened.I think maybe they did. Evidence Caylee got into the pool by herself is what? A picture of her in the pool with Cindy?A picture of her at the sliding door that may have been already open? Testimony from River Cruz saying George BELIEVED it was an accident and Casey tried to cover it up? Not much evidence.

Sing it sista:rocker:
bbm

 

[WillChgo]

IMO, the jury weighed the evidence of murder (which did not link Casey to murdering her child) and the evidence of an accident. They weighed the conflicting testimonies. They came up with the best verdict they could, given their instructions.

Your first two sentences above provide a reasonable explanation of what seems to have happened in the jury room.

The problem is that the evidence for an accident is very limited and IMO is not consistent with a decomposing body in the trunk for which there is tremendous evidence, even if you do not believe all of it. Was everyone who smelled a decomposing body wrong? Was the dog wrong?

The decomposing body in the trunk directly ties the evidence for murder to Casey.

 

[kelian36]

Originally Posted by beccalecca1 View Post
The scientist they referred to that was also doing studies on human decomposition. He found 80+ chemicals linked to human decomposition. Out of the 80+ chemicals he has found (and Vass/Furton both find him credible), there was only 1 chemical in the trunk that was the same. I don't like those odds.

I didn't like the odds that little Caylee was found in the freakin swampy waters behind her grandparents house, stuffed in trashbags. I didn't like that her mom was the last person to see her alive. I didn't like that her mom's bf didn't like female children.
There was no drowning.this child died at the hands of the female who gave birth to her.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

This is evidence that it's not ridiculous to think that it happened. This is evidence that the jury could use in their deliberations. This is, IMO, reasonable doubt.

Ok. But you said there was evidence that she drowned.

So you really didn't mean that?
You meant there was evidence she COULD have drowned.

Ok.

So was there evidence she slipped in the tub and hit her head?
Was there was evidence she stuck a fork in an electric socket?
Was there evidence she went to sleep and just didn't wake up???

I could go on but really, what's the point?

Any of those things COULD have happened.
But there is no evidence of any of them.

There was, however, evidence that she was murdered.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Sing it sista:rocker:
bbm

Thanks. I'm not a "sista" as far as I know. I'm just an average guy.

 

[kelian36]

Ok. But you said there was evidence that she drowned.

So you really didn't mean that?
You meant there was evidence she COULD have drowned.

Ok.

So was there evidence she slipped in the tub and hit her head?
Was there was evidence she stuck a fork in an electric socket?
Was there evidence she went to sleep and just didn't wake up???

I could go on but really, what's the point?

Any of those things COULD have happened.
But there is no evidence of any of them.

There was, however, evidence that she was murdered.

That assumption imo is pure bs. :crazy:

 

[pcrum12]

Ok. You believe that since a drowning was possible, without any evidence to support that theory,the jury should come to the conclusion that is what actually happened.I think maybe they did. Evidence Caylee got into the pool by herself is what? A picture of her in the pool with Cindy?A picture of her at the sliding door that may have been already open? Testimony from River Cruz saying George BELIEVED it was an accident and Casey tried to cover it up? Not much evidence.

I say Leave the pool theory OUT, Leave out the molestation! Look at the states evidence, Look at the DT CIC (minus pool/molestation) Look at the jury instructions. Still Not Guilty. IMO

 

[kelian36]

Look at the STATES evidence, listen to their witnesses-----
verdict should have been guilty.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Guilty as sin IMO

 

[kelian36]

Thanks. I'm not a "sista" as far as I know. I'm just an average guy.

My apologies RANCH.
You could be a brother. j/k

 

[kelian36]

Guilty as sin IMO

:tyou:

 

[pcrum12]

Here's a link to her statement to LE . I think that's what you are referring to.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23070163/detail.html

Lol Thanks. I forgot to add the link. I went back and edited it.

 

[Littleone48]

You do make some valid points. She flat out said that GA knew she was in a relationship. They were both cheaters! She obviously isn't anymore trustworthy in that sense than GA. But she still came across like she was coming clean in a sense. She came across more honest than him. And she doesn't have a daughter standing accused of murdering her own daughter. His character and demeanor is a heck of alot more important than hers. His daughter is fighting for her life FGS.

The text he sent her, Thinking of you, I need you in my life. Now I don't know about you but if that was my husband texting another woman, I'd pretty much figure somethings going on. Add to that him going over to her house multiple times while his wife thinks he is out looking for a job to "comfort" her. Sorry, If they didn't have an affair, he sure was trying too IMO.

I do believe he made the statement just as KH stated. When JA had her read the part that had "believe it was" or "think it was", she clearly pointed out that HIS statement to her was before that line and what he had her read was her words not GA's. It's certainly possible that she was looking for her 15 minutes of fame. But to me she appeared truthful. And she didn't want to admit the affair but once the media learned of it she did go back to investigators and told them the truth. I guess if she got paid for the NE article she figured it was compensation for the money GA took from her lol. Regardless, the affair didn't mean squat to me.

However, his combativeness about the duct tape, chasing Casey (or not), june 24th gas can incident, driving the car home and going to work after smelling the smell of death, some of the recorded jailhouse conversation with Casey, very weird and which gas cans shenanigans with JB did make him look suspicious. Something with his demeanor throughout from JUNE to July on to the present is off. Something not right. All of course is just my opinion.

BBM After she testified she was on in-session and she stated that there were MANY other text but that was the only 1 they allowed in court. She stated that if you saw ALL of the text you would know that there was an affair not just a friendship that GA led us to think.

 

[Just Jayla]

I agree with much you say. But come on, RC/KH or what ever her real name is didn't have to say that she and George had a sexual relationship.She could have left it at their being good friends and that's why he confided in her. She changed her story to make it sound better to sell to the media.Just MOO.

I'm with ya, but don't think it matters much in the way of ethics. That is to say, if it was George, and it likely was, that was viewing adult sites many many times in March of 2008, that is considered a addiction and that IS considered cheating on your marriage-whether he did the nasty with RC or not, he was already cheating CA out of sexual intimacy, financial needs, and probably various emotional needs.
We write about these (sleezy) things here in so much depth because we've been dedicated to combing over every little fact in this case to try to find answers about Caylee's murder-not for the turn-on. I don't think anyone here ever was interested in George's sex life :sick: outside of how it relates to the case (not that you're saying we were/are). Basically, we know about the because we were looking at KC's computer searches. We know about RC because she went to LE and we had discovery plopped in our laps.
The juror's however, connected sex and murder in a way we never would have, IMO. Why would we deduce that a relationship that he began AFTER Caylee was murdered was of any significance to her murder? And if the jury made the deduction that George lying about RC was an implication that he was able to lie about Caylee, then they had an obligation to request a viewing of more evidence to make sure that piece fit....because JB's opening statement, that KC and GA were liars was not to be considered evidenciary. So again, why would George lying about an affair have anything to do with Caylee, unless the jurors ignored HHJP and considered what JB postulated in opening about George's lies?
If they had, they would have found that, for instance, George's July 24th interview did not fit. That George not having possession of the Sunfire did not fit. That George pointing LE to evidence that would lead back to him, if he were involved, did not fit. And that they could not consider GA to be a molester or a liar because there was no evidence of that.
I am at a loss to understand how lying about an affair, in fact, being a liar I general, matches up to any of the huge circumstantial evidence (not fascination with sex) that points back to KC. Especially when the only hypothetical lie that had to do with Caylee had zero evidenciary value. Zero. Zilch. 0.