France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

[Clio]

Seems the local French press also have some unanswered questions

.....

Local paper Le Dauphine raised four key questions about the crime scene, after the area was reopened this week.

Does that mean that Saad al-Hilli saw the killers coming, and did he hastily reverse? Was this the point his wife hid his 4-year-old- daughter under her skirt?" the paper asked.

Libération reported that marks in asphalt of the car park and on the slope suggested al-Hilli tried to manoeuvre, reverse and hastily drive away, with his doors locked.

Questions were raised by Le Dauphine about the scene stumbled upon by the English cyclist, a former RAF man, who found seven-year-old Zainab al-Hilli lying in the road, beaten round the head, shot in the shoulder and left for dead.

"The English cyclist who discovered the scene had to break the window of the car to cut off the engine. So how is it that the 7-year-old girl was found outside the vehicle, with the doors locked?

"And why was the body of the rider Sylvain Mollier found lying near the car, which is several feet from the road he would have taken? Was the killer hidden? Or did he threaten him?"

Crucially the paper asked why the shooters had not bothered to "clean up" and why two children had been left alive.

"Did they panic after they had to eliminate a troublesome witness [the cyclist] and flee hastily? Did they run out of ammunition?"

In the comments on Libération, locals speculated that target had been the British RAF cyclist, "who might be on Her Majesty's Secret Service", with the French cyclist killed in a case of mistaken identity, and the British family innocent bystanders.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...myst_n_1874225.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

 

[Clio]

So on the one hand we have

The British cyclist who helped save the life of a seven-year-old girl after arriving at the scene of the massacre was yesterday praised by French police for his "nerves of steel"

The RAF veteran, who owns a home in the region, discovered the bullet-ridden car moments after the shooting.

He put seven-year-old Zainab Al-Hilli in the recovery position before smashing the window of the BMW 5 series and turning the engine off. He then called the police.

.......

The cyclist was “deeply shocked” by what he witnessed, but managed to recover his composure and put Zainab in the recovery position. He called police at 3.48pm.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-cyclists-nerves-of-steel-after-massacre.html

And on the other hand we have

The first person to alert emergency services to the horrific murder of four people in the French Alps said he felt like he was "in a scene from a film".

The witness, from the Savoie region of the Alps, had planned a hike with two friends in the Alpine beauty spot on the afternoon of September 5, the day of the murders.

Speaking for the first time on Tuesday to French newspaper Aujourd’hui France / Le Parisien, the witness, known as Philippe D, recalled realising something terrible had happened when their car was approached by a panicked cyclist – the British former RAF serviceman who had discovered the crime scene.

"The man was coming down the road. He was clearly panicked and emotional. He tried to explain to me in broken French that something had happened further up the road," Philippe D said.

"He was trying to alert the emergency services, but either he did not have a phone or had no coverage."

He (Phillipe D) had to descend the mountain road in order to get a signal to call the police. Emergency services arrived within minutes of his call.

Unlike the British cyclist, Philippe D did not see a dark-coloured 4x4 and a motorbike driving away from the crime scene at the time of the murders.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120911...der&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed


So did the RAF man with nerves of steel break into the car, turn the engine off and put the girl in the recovery position before going down hill to meet Philippe D by which time he was panicked and emotional? And who actually rang the emergency services? And how come the RAF cyclist saw a dark 4x4 and a motorbike but Phillipe D didn't?

Hmmmmmmm............

Ah well, apparently Prosecutor Eric Maillaud is going to do a press conference sometime tomorrow so all should become clear

 

[Confusion]

I hate being suspicious of "good samaritans", but it's hard not to be in this case. I hope what I'm writing is acceptable, but I'll understand if it isn't.

The builder said he saw no other cars going up that road all day; the RAF cyclist said the French cyclist passed him up 5 minutes earlier; the RAF cyclist didn't hear any shots; the French hikers said the RAF cyclist was panicked and his hands were covered in blood when they saw him; the hikers apparently didn't see anyone else leaving the area as they drove up there.

What makes sense to me in relation to the 7 year-old - the shooter shot the adults through the windows of the vehicle, and a stray bullet hit the girl. She opened the door to run, but fell to the ground. Before she could get up, the shooter ran to her side of the car, knocking the door shut and hit her in the head to stop her. Before he had actually killed her, he heard the French cyclist coming. The cyclist rode up and saw the girl laying there. He went over to see if he could help, and the shooter shot him too. He checked to see if the girl was still alive, but he heard the hikers driving up before he could do anything else. Rather than shoot even more people, he rushed out and asked them for help, saying he had performed CPR on the girl to explain the blood.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

I hate being suspicious of "good samaritans", but it's hard not to be in this case. I hope what I'm writing is acceptable, but I'll understand if it isn't.

The builder said he saw no other cars going up that road all day; the RAF cyclist said the French cyclist passed him up 5 minutes earlier; the RAF cyclist didn't hear any shots; the French hikers said the RAF cyclist was panicked and his hands were covered in blood when they saw him; the hikers apparently didn't see anyone else leaving the area as they drove up there.

What makes sense to me in relation to the 7 year-old - the shooter shot the adults through the windows of the vehicle, and a stray bullet hit the girl. She opened the door to run, but fell to the ground. Before she could get up, the shooter ran to her side of the car, knocking the door shut and hit her in the head to stop her. Before he had actually killed her, he heard the French cyclist coming. The cyclist rode up and saw the girl laying there. He went over to see if he could help, and the shooter shot him too. He checked to see if the girl was still alive, but he heard the hikers driving up before he could do anything else. Rather than shoot even more people, he rushed out and asked them for help, saying he had performed CPR on the girl to explain the blood.

Wheres the gun?,id presume the whole area was checked by LE.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Great scenario though..

 

[Skigh]

Wheres the gun?,id presume the whole area was checked by LE.

We only have RAF cyclists version of the timing and what happened.

He could have had more time.

According to some reports the police did not check surrounding area.

My head is hurting with all these changing stories.

 

[wfgodot]

This whole thing is turning into a Jean-Luc Goddard film, with plenty of jump cuts but no Jean-Paul Belmondo to solve matters.

 

[Confusion]

Wheres the gun?,id presume the whole area was checked by LE.

Do you think they actually searched the witnesses?

 

[~n/t~]

The little girl said there were the bad guys and good guys. I'm guessing she meant the men who found them were the good guys.

Or did she mean the bad guys were the good guys?


Confusion.....can I borrow your sig line?

 

[Confusion]

SBM


Confusion.....can I borrow your sig line?

Go ahead, I borrowed it from Larry Leissner!

 

[wfgodot]

My Montaigne signature translates to "What do I know?", therefore presenting a fair picture of my sleuthing capabilities if one lets the accent fall on the third syllable. (For Montaigne the genius, it would fall on the last syllable.)

 

[katydid23]

Is it possible to shoot from a bicycle? Don't you have to get off the bike to wield a gun? It seems like such an awkward way to unleash an assassination, imo.

 

[Elley Mae]

Is it possible to shoot from a bicycle? Don't you have to get off the bike to wield a gun? It seems like such an awkward way to unleash an assassination, imo.

I don't know about shooting from bicycles but what I would like to know is why the over kill on the bicyclist (5 shoots to the back)? iirc. Maybe he was the target. idk

 

[Lola]

Police probe al-Hilli's secret meetings before Annecy killing

 

[wfgodot]

Police probe al-Hilli's secret meetings before Annecy killing

"The Dutch pair" certainly seem to have been keeping a close eye on things.

 

[Clio]

And here we have the camp site staff contradicting the Dutch couples claims - in the same press article :waitasec:

A Dutch couple believed the group planned to spend a week at the three-star Village Camping Europa site in St Jorioz but they left after a two-night stay.

The campers said father-of-two Saad al-Hilli acted strangely during that time, leaving his family alone several times each day.

They also noticed an unusual man wearing a smart jacket visiting while the al-Hillis were there.

Staff at Village Camping Europa described the family as "very quiet, nice people".

A manager, who refused to give her name, said: "They came to stay with us on Saturday evening and left on Monday.

"That was pre-planned - they were here for just a few days."

She dismissed suggestions that Mr al-Hilli behaved oddly during his stay, adding: "There was nothing strange. All families leave the campsite at all sorts of times to run errands, go to the shop, organise activities, that sort of thing."

And she said comments about a mysterious man described as appearing "to come from the Balkans" were "ridiculous".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...oting-victims-had-moved-campsite-8124815.html

 

[wfgodot]

"The Dutch Pair": classic disinformation agents, or just your usual nosy parkers?

Staff at Village Camping Europa would tend to low-key this, as who wants one's money-maker associated with assassination?

 

[Skigh]

"The Dutch Pair": classic disinformation agents, or just your usual nosy parkers?

Staff at Village Camping Europa would tend to low-key this, as who wants one's money-maker associated with assassination?

But why the new stories -surely all this should have been given a week ago.

The RAF cyclist's story has changed -and now we are being dripped fed new information which changes in the telling about their stay at the different camp sites.

 

[~n/t~]

"The Dutch Pair": classic disinformation agents, or just your usual nosy parkers?

Staff at Village Camping Europa would tend to low-key this, as who wants one's money-maker associated with assassination?

I'll believe the nosy parkers over staff at a very popular money making camping business.

But.....Que sais-je?

 

[wfgodot]

I'll believe the nosy parkers over staff at a very popular money making camping business.

But.....Que sais-je?

Yes, choosing them too, if only for adding the scintillating "Balkans Guy" into the theorizing.