GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

[California Sunset]

The links I found are Westlaw.
Needs a subscription.

Is there a 'library' of sites on WS? A resource kind of thing that lists various URLs so you can check out their information? I have looked up stuff on government sites, like court cases, and there's a place called justia.com.
Justia is an American website specializing in legal information retrieval (wikipedia).
Another one is Caselaw: Cases and Codes - FindLaw Caselaw
I'm probably telling you stuff you already know, so my apologies, but maybe someone will benefit from this.

 

[Hope4More]

I have to wonder if the McMichaels yelled out to him as they passed by with something like "Roddie this is him!" and there was some agreement between various neighbors to round up this "suspect" prior to that afternoon.

jmo

I'm going to very, very unsurprised if we find out that Perez, driving, spotted AA jogging into the neighborhood at about 1:05 and immediately put out a SOS alert on the neighborhood's SM. (Perez is caught on surveillance tape driving by E's property at that time, about one minute before AA first comes into view).

I also wouldn't be surprised if it was an alert by Perez that sent the "witness" (and non-emergency/ first 911 caller who lives on Jones out of his house to the street corner across from E's site to check for (AA).

What WOULD surprise me is if GM really was just coincidentally hanging around in the MM family's front yard, by himself, and just so happened to see AA run by.

 

[Boxer]

Is there a 'library' of sites on WS? A resource kind of thing that lists various URLs so you can check out their information? I have looked up stuff on government sites, like court cases, and there's a place called justia.com.
Justia is an American website specializing in legal information retrieval (wikipedia).
Another one is Caselaw: Cases and Codes - FindLaw Caselaw
I'm probably telling you stuff you already know, so my apologies, but maybe someone will benefit from this.

Most of the legal codes I link or quote are from Justicia, which seems pretty easy most of the time. Some times I download the whole state code pdf from that state.
MOO each state is in a different place regarding getting their codes on line.

 

[MikeF]

If you look at the various pics taken of his memorial as well as the pathetic photo taken by the sister, you can really get a feel that the houses were all right there. I would imagine AA had it in his mind that trying to cross through those yards would have given the McMichael pair even more reason to suspect he up to no good. As well as they may have claimed they feared for the safety of whichever home he decided to try and run toward. Arbery may have felt it better to stay out in the open and just keep jogging to the exit intersection of Satilla Shores. Unfortunately that never happened.

Something else that just came to my mind is, I know there were suppose to be all these burglaries happening in the area, and no actual reports, but have we seen ANY videos from other homes in Satilla Shores that shows people (more importantly Arbery, or more widely a black male) approaching them in a manner? Any kind of casing or porch pirates? Or was this just limited to the 220 address? And as we've seen, it had other visitors past Arbery.

 

[MikeF]

I'm trying to wrap my mind around the fact that IF Roddie was just some concerned neighbor, where is his 911 call once the video ends? I mean I can let it go if within mere milliseconds LE arrived, but when they arrived was Roddie in his vehicle or out? Was he over with the McMichael's watching Arbery live his last moments?

My bet would be yes he was out of his vehicle and even still recording. IMO the video McMichael's gave his friend (to clear them) was edited at both ends.

 

[skyedaze]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before....but I am positive that I have heard several people in that neighborhood were on the Nextdoor app. My neighborhood is on that app as are some surrounding neighborhoods. People frequently post videos from the doorbell and security cameras...bears eating out of trash bins, foxes running around, coyotes in the yard and vandals doing..well vandalizing.
Pretty sure I have heard that people in that neighborhood posted on next door and if so, likely posted some of the videos from that house or at least talked about people going through the home under construction. Maybe WB and the Ms were not friends per se...did not BBQ together or anything, but were familiar through that app and communicated on and through direct message. If so, because people in my neighborhood do that, then they may not have been "friends" but they all were aware of "suspicious behavior.
Even neighbors whose names I may not know...I know their home and recognize them in their vehicles driving down the street.
It is possible WB did not really know the Ms but he prob recognized them in their truck chasing a "suspicious" person and he
decided to get involved.
If this is the case, all of this is on that app...it's social media, in writing..we all know that doesn't just go away.
If he helped block AA from his desired direction with his truck and boxed him in, and AA winds up dead, WB is in big trouble as he was technically a participant in an illegal act that lead to a death.

Anyhow, my point is, I'm pretty sure the neighborhood is on Nextdoor and prior events were discussed and videos shared. My neighborhood also does Facebook. The word was out to be on the lookout in the neighborhood...and it's still there for GBI to see as well now.

 

[oviedo]

So nice that criminals take the time to provide video evidence of their criminal activity.

Darwinism at its best.

It’s really perfect isn’t it? Justice for Ahmaud!!!

 

[skyedaze]

oh..well....duh..

A look at the Satilla Shores Facebook group mentioned in the Ahmaud Arbery investigation

 

[oviedo]

That's weird, because Roddie's lawyer said his client was working in his front yard when he saw a person he did not know run down Burford followed by a vehicle he recognized from the neighbourhood. According to that statement it doesn't sound like the McM's told him anything.

So was it just a knee jerk reaction to pile into his vehicle and follow without any knowledge of what was going on? And after four minutes of playing defense to the McMs offense he pictures himself as an unwitting accomplice to murder?

Man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery has been arrested, GBI says

I hope all the video is collected from all the cameras in this neighborhood so the whole truth will be known IMO it will uncover a whole lot
JMO

 

[Niner]

Someone (sorry can't remember) posted a link to what happened in court yesterday for WB - but I could not access it - blocked in the EU - and Outline didn't give me anything.
Was there anything about his next court date? Must update my notes! TIA!

 

[MsBetsy]

Delete

 

[MsBetsy]

Like I said, I'm just correcting an error that keeps being repeated. No sense in saying Arbery was not committing a felony if he didn't need to be for a citizen's arrest to be made.

eta: and we do not know that none of them had "immediate" knowledge -- which is not the same as direct (but we also don't know whether any of them had direct knowledge).

Yes, you mentioned that it was an error but what you keep leaving out is the use of deadly force.

What is relevant in this case is whether or not the use of deadly force was appropriate or legal under the circumstances, whether they had knowledge of a crime or not.

According to the article posted here earlier, "The courts have previously ruled that while a citizen can detain someone, a citizens arrest doesn't necessarily allow for the uses of force."

The source is from GPD "Breaking down Georgia's Citizens Arrest Law After Arbery Ahmaud Shooting." I don't know how to link it.

"The only force reasonable under the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual arrested, the State Supreme Court said in its ruling."

So, whether any of the men had any knowledge that Arbery was trespassing, it still does not warrant a citizens arrest with intent to use deadly weapons. As far as I can tell, they did not have direct or immediate knowledge that Abery was a "burglary suspect", which was their reason for attempting a citizens arrest.

They used two trucks and three weapons to try to detain an unarmed man. That doesn't sound "reasonable" to me.

Imo

 

[Cryptic]

I have to wonder if the McMichaels yelled out to him as they passed by with something like "Roddie this is him!" and there was some agreement between various neighbors to round up this "suspect" prior to that afternoon.

The GBI stated that the arrest of R on murder charges was based on in part on SM exchanges that are said to show a prior agreement.

As a result, R's involvement in the chase was not an impulsive or spontaneous decision.

Though the director would not provide details on what the SM exchanges consisted of, he did imply that they were pretty substantial.

 

[Jax49]

Yes, you mentioned that it was an error but what you keep leaving out is the use of deadly force.

What is relevant in this case is whether or not the use of deadly force was appropriate or legal under the circumstances, whether they had knowledge of a crime or not.

According to the article posted here earlier, "The courts have previously ruled that while a citizen can detain someone, a citizens arrest doesn't necessarily allow for the uses of force."

The source is from GPD "Breaking down Georgia's Citizens Arrest Law After Arbery Ahmaud Shooting." I don't know how to link it.

"The only force reasonable under the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual arrested, the State Supreme Court said in its ruling."

So, whether any of the men had any knowledge that Arbery was trespassing, it still does not warrant a citizens arrest with intent to use deadly weapons. As far as I can tell, they did not have direct or immediate knowledge that Abery was a "burglary suspect", which was their reason for attempting a citizens arrest.

They used two trucks and three weapons to try to detain an unarmed man. That doesn't sound "reasonable" to me.

Imo

Breaking Down Georgia's Citizen's Arrest Law After Ahmaud Arbery Fatal Shooting

 

[MsBetsy]

Breaking Down Georgia's Citizen's Arrest Law After Ahmaud Arbery Fatal Shooting

Thank you! I was hoping someone would do that.

 

[Cryptic]

although English didn't make a report to LE, he did tell one or more person in the neighborhood of the theft of fishing gear worth more than $2k,.

Intentionally or not, explicitly or not, IMO Rash was definitely responsible for focusing (or reinforcing) the neighborhood's collective suspicions about crimes being committed (real or imaginary) on one individual - an unidentified black male

The GBI director stated that investigators had to determine what conduct was criminal, and what conduct was non criminal, but indicative of somebody with his "head up his rear end".

English appears to either have directly contradicted himself regarding the 2K theft- or hmmm....... "backed far away from it". If the theft was inaccurate or greatly exaggerated, he presented the image of escalating thefts to excitable dim wits.

Likewise, Rash not only reinforced collective suspicions on a particular trespasser, but also unofficially "re-deputized" GM as an LEO.

My guess is that the director could have been referring to both of these individuals.

 

[watergirl62]

The GBI director stated that investigators had to determine what conduct was criminal, and what conduct was non criminal, but indicative of somebody with his "head up his rear end".

English appears to either have directly contradicted himself regarding the 2K theft- or hmmm....... "backed far away from it". If the theft was inaccurate or greatly exaggerated, he presented the image of escalating thefts to excitable dim wits.

Likewise, Rash not only reinforced collective suspicions on a particular trespasser, but also unofficially "re-deputized" GM as an LEO.

My guess is that the director could have been referring to both of these individuals.

Yeah, first I wasn't sure that is what he actually said, but I thought he was alluding to Rash. However, there are several players here who qualify.

 

[tlcya]

Yeah, I took the director's reference about head up rear end to be directed toward Rash.

 

[tayaway]

Someone (sorry can't remember) posted a link to what happened in court yesterday for WB - but I could not access it - blocked in the EU - and Outline didn't give me anything.
Was there anything about his next court date? Must update my notes! TIA!

I don't think they mentioned the next court date; if they did, I missed it. No plea entered in court yesterday, nor was bond set. WB's lawyer filed a motion for a quick trial.

 

[Niner]

I don't think they mentioned the next court date; if they did, I missed it. No plea entered in court yesterday, nor was bond set. WB's lawyer filed a motion for a quick trial.

Thanks tayaway!