GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

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  • #921
What might come close but not cross the line would be if, say, Perez posted on SM that he agreed with the MMs that next time they tried to "catch" the UBM they wouldn't call LE, because the UBM was "fast," "knew the neighborhood real good," and LE took too long to respond. But.....didn't play any part (other than to raise the alarm) in hunting down or killing AA.
Good assessment.

Even still, making exaggerated or totally false claims about theft to people whom one knows are juiced up and looking for a confrontation is also pretty "head up rear".

That is doubly so, if the person making the theft claims knew that the other participants had stated their intent to confront trespassers (presumable thieves) with weapons etc.
 
  • #922
@HayleyMasonTV

Brunswick construction site owner Larry English releases new statement about GBI taking all contents of his cell phone against his requests. He also announces he will be interviewed by McMichael's attorneys this weekend.
upload_2020-5-28_18-22-1.jpeg
 
  • #923
Motions take time, which in turn generate more billing for the attorney. Whether or nor they get granted or are needed are not important to these attorneys- billing is.

My amateur opinion is that the only hope for W is to advance a theory that while W made some uhmmm…. "badly worded" social media comments, he truly believed GM had police authority.

Thus, he thought he was assisting a police officer when he joined the chase. He then very quickly quit assisting when he saw the MMs needlessly escalating the confrontation.

So, I would use any funds from W to get disclosures on any SM posts detailing that Nash "re-deputized" GM, or posts where GM stated he had police authority- or even implied that he did.

No funds need be spent by Roddy's defense team to
obtain SM material. The GBI will turn over what they've already found to the State, and the State will be obligated to turn that (and everything else investigations produce) to the defense during discovery.

The GBI has said additional videos exist that show Roddy attempting to cut off /trap AA multiple times.
IMO, that sounds like enough right thar to undermine any claim he was barely involved and only "very quickly."

I expect any decent prosecutor would further shred any such claim simply by pointing out Roddy's absolute silence and steady hand as he kept on recording through the armed confrontation, 3 gunshots, and AA falling to the ground, bleeding out.

I can go about 1/4 your way to "I thought he was a cop" defense. The difference being he could perhaps claim (as one facet of a larger strategy) that he knew LEO Robert Lee Rash had encouraged MM to "get involved," and that he assumed MM as ex-LE would know what was and wasn't legal in trying to catch the UBM neighborhood "burglar."
 
  • #924
@HayleyMasonTV

Brunswick construction site owner Larry English releases new statement about GBI taking all contents of his cell phone against his requests. He also announces he will be interviewed by McMichael's attorneys this weekend.
View attachment 249022

How exactly would the GBI be able to discern what data was relevant and what was not prior to taking said data and going through it? IME authorities when accessing a phone by warrant they "dump" the entire contents onto a law enforcement device or thumb drive and then many hours are spent looking through that data to determine what might be relevant tot the case at hand.

For instance: LE may have exchanged texts with his wife about trespassers, police interactions about those instances, interactions with others about those instances, etc. and so forth.

Did he think a warrant meant they would simply take him at his word and allow him to proffer what HE felt was relevant? Ridiculous. JMO
 
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  • #925
I honestly care nothing about anything on English's phone. Not seeing any relevance. They killed him, and nothing on this man's phone is going to change or negate that, imo
 
  • #926
I honestly care nothing about anything on English's phone. Not seeing any relevance. They killed him, and nothing on this man's phone is going to change or negate that, imo

Many ways that could be relevant , imo.

There could be:

1. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying don't do anything on my behalf.
2. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying apprehend anyone on my behalf.
3. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying apprehend only the black males on my behalf.
4. no conversation whatsoever.
5. texts/emails about plans to get the guy.
6. no texts or emails.
7. conversations that include more people than the three killers about getting guns and running the guy off.

Sky is the limit. Interesting that he is meeting with the defense attorneys. Thought he didn't know the guys. Maybe he did?
 
  • #927
Many ways that could be relevant , imo.

There could be:

1. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying don't do anything on my behalf.
2. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying apprehend anyone on my behalf.
3. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying apprehend only the black males on my behalf.
4. no conversation whatsoever.
5. texts/emails about plans to get the guy.
6. no texts or emails.
7. conversations that include more people than the three killers about getting guns and running the guy off.

Sky is the limit. Interesting that he is meeting with the defense attorneys. Thought he didn't know the guys. Maybe he did?

Agree 100%. Perhaps he's telling folks about his meeting with defense attorneys because he's afraid of what peeps will think. Reality is, the State will almost certainly depose him/call him as a witness, which means the defense would interview him in any case.

But....he's under no obligation this early on to consent to being interviewed by the defense. He's doing so voluntarily, and said so. That IS interesting.

How exactly would the GBI be able to discern what data was relevant and what was not prior to taking said data and going through it? IME authorities when accessing a phone by warrant they "dump" the entire contents onto a law enforcement device or thumb drive and then many hours are spent looking through that data to determine what might be relevant tot the case at hand.

For instance: LE may have exchanged texts with his wife about trespassers, police interactions about those instances, interactions with others about those instances, etc. and so forth.

Did he think a warrant meant they would simply take him at his word and allow him to proffer what HE felt was relevant? Ridiculous. JMO

Toss in his complaints that these pesky investigations and invasions of his privacy are worsening his health, and it sure seems like Mr. English is not only playing victim, but likely sees himself that way.

Kind of an entitled (and telling) point of view, as in, "I thought I washed my hands of all this, plus it never had anything to do with me anyway, how was I supposed to know something bad could result from allowing Perez to post my videos on the FB page to rally up a posse, and from having him (and a posse?) race over to my wide open construction site to catch a trespasser rather than my just calling LE?"
 
  • #928
I expect any decent prosecutor would further shred any such claim simply by pointing out Roddy's absolute silence and steady hand as he kept on recording....
People show emotions in different ways. For example, footage of traumatic deaths of individuals at police hands may contain silence and a steady camera. This does not mean that the person taking the footage affirmed the police action.

Therefore, I don't think Roddy's silence and steady hand are that drastic. In addition, he immiediately truned the video over to the police (of course, he thought it was exculpatory- but the defense does not need to mention that).

From a defense POV, I think the best narrative would be:

- My client is not very sophisticated (this probably does not even need a spin). He knew that GM was a retired police officer and knew that a current police officer had placed him in charge of all trespasser / burglar matters.

-He regrets any SM posts planning a confrontation- he participated because GM took the lead in what he thought was the capacity of a police officer.

- My client then presumed that GM would not only act lawfully towards apprehending trespassers or burglars, but that he was also acting with police authority.

- He then joined the chase only after GM called for assistance. I doing so, my client thought he was assisting a police officer.

- My client immediately turned his video over to the police so that a fair review could be conducted (defense does not need to state W's definition of "fairness").

- He is horrified by the actions of the MMs (actually, horrified by the thought of LWOP). He is eager to talk to the DA (does not need a spin).
 
  • #929
Many ways that could be relevant , imo.

There could be:

1. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying don't do anything on my behalf.
2. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying apprehend anyone on my behalf.
3. conversations between Mr. English and the killers which points to him saying apprehend only the black males on my behalf.
4. no conversation whatsoever.
5. texts/emails about plans to get the guy.
6. no texts or emails.
7. conversations that include more people than the three killers about getting guns and running the guy off.

Sky is the limit. Interesting that he is meeting with the defense attorneys. Thought he didn't know the guys. Maybe he did?


I live here. This is all about the defense and DA trying to cloudy the obvious. Nothing English said or did has any bearing. A citizens arrest does not involve killing someone.
 
  • #930
I live here. This is all about the defense and DA trying to cloudy the obvious. Nothing English said or did has any bearing. A citizens arrest does not involve killing someone.

Though the 3 charged with AA's murder bear full responsibility for his death, I disagree that nothing English said or did had any bearing.

1. He knew leaving his construction site wide open was problematic, and has said so. He's fortunate that none of the many peeps wandering in, including children, were hurt while on site.

2. It only took one occasion of an UBM entering his site, in October 2019, for English to accept Perez's offer to go to the site "within seconds" of E alerting him of a trespasser. Having Perez respond rather than calling LE was grossly inappropriate, IMO. What did English think would happen if an armed Perez encountered an UBM on his construction site?

3. Although Robert Lee Rash's 2/11 incident report plainly states that English had more than once told him nothing had been taken by the UBM, it's still unknown what English did or didn't tell his neighbors about the $2k worth theft of his fishing gear, and any suspicions he had about the thief. If he even suggested the UBM might be the thief, IMO he materially contributed to the neighborhood's collective focus on the UBM.

4. English has tried to distance himself from what was posted on the hood's FB page, and what seems increasingly likely was a coordinated effort to "catch" the UBM seen on E's videos. I'm willing to bet evidence will be found on the FB page and perhaps even on his phone that English was aware of at least some of what his neighbors were discussing. And that he did not object.

Consider- we know English was active on the FB page. He knew Perez had posted the UBM videos there. And did not object. And we know how English responded on the FB page about an "incident" on Dec 18, 2019.

First post:

"Suspicious old silver Pontiac casing the house across the street 220 Satilla Dr. From the looks of the car I don't think there (sic) house shopping if you know what I mean."

A neighbor, on his way out of the hood, turns around to try to get a tag number. The same or another person reports on the car's movements and the fact no one got out of the car. Another person drives around the neighborhood looking for the car but doesn't see it.

Though his name is redacted, it's obviously English who chimes in: "this is our house that's under construction. Thanks for posting!"

Link: A look at the Satilla Shores Facebook group mentioned in the Ahmaud Arbery investigation

Nothing known suggests English felt any concern his neighbors were assigning blame for multiple crimes to the UBM in his videos. Why DIDN'T he have a problem with that?

In fact, why do you suppose English was so interested in catching just that one person of many seen on his videos? A person who he admitted to LE hadn't taken anything, hadn't vandalized anything, had done nothing other than look around while there?

5. What English could have done, but didn't, was to tell Perez no thanks, that LE could and should handle the situation. Saying yes to Perez opened the door to vigilantism, imo. And to laying the groundwork for just that: no Perez, no posting of the videos on FB.

And if the videos somehow were posted anyway, then what English should have done, but didn't, was to tell his posse- gathering neighbors thanks but no thanks and to chill out, the UBM was only one of many peeps who had been on his property, and he hadn't committed any crime. IMO.

Instead, IMO, English implicitly gave permission to a gathering posse to act on his behalf to "defend" his property. There isn't any legal liability there, but there sure is some degree of moral culpability. IMO.
 
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  • #931
What English said, didn’t say, did or didn’t do does not remove any culpability from the accused. He has to deal with his own moral shortcomings. They are not a convenient excuse for the defense.
 
  • #932
What English said, didn’t say, did or didn’t do does not remove any culpability from the accused. He has to deal with his own moral shortcomings. They are not a convenient excuse for the defense.

Reality is, the defense attys for each of all 3 accused are entitled and obligated to try to introduce every last shred of evidence they believe might exonerate their client, minimize their clients' involvement, or make their clients' decisions/actions appear "reasonable" to a jury.

What English said or did could therefore very well matter, not only morally, but to a jury.

A theoretical example:

The defense (of any or all 3 accused) learns that English DID tell GM or TM or Roddy, directly, that $2k worth of fishing gear was stolen from his construction site. And that he suspected but couldn't prove the UBM trespasser was the thief.

A defense atty/team could argue that under GA's "citizens' arrest" law, English's direct conveyance of that information to their client justified the pursuit of AA. The offense, the theft of items worth over $2k, was a felony.

If a felony, skip to section 2 of the law. That a citizen has the right to pursue AND to detain a person if he has "reasonable or probable" grounds to suspect that person of a felony.

It would be up to a jury to decide if E's say -so
to a defendant was sufficient to provide those "reasonable or probable" grounds. IMO that argument might well be successful, actually.

Even in that theoretical for instance, though, legal justification for initiating the pursuit of AA wouldn't absolve any of the 3 for the actions they took during the pursuit, and it's the actions they took then that constitute the underlying felonies charged.
 
  • #933
This is really going to hinge on who is on the jury. They pull from voter registration. Too bad most lawyers I’ve had to listen to from the jury box talk in circles and spin all kinds of stories. Confuses many.
 
  • #934
This is really going to hinge on who is on the jury. They pull from voter registration. Too bad most lawyers I’ve had to listen to from the jury box talk in circles and spin all kinds of stories. Confuses many.
This is really going to hinge on who is on the jury. They pull from voter registration. Too bad most lawyers I’ve had to listen to from the jury box talk in circles and spin all kinds of stories. Confuses many.

That it will ultimately come down to a jury (juries) we agree upon. And if all involved, including the judge(s) do their job well, there shouldn't be any reason for an impartial jury (juries) to be confused by the evidence presented.
 
  • #935
This is really going to hinge on who is on the jury. They pull from voter registration. Too bad most lawyers I’ve had to listen to from the jury box talk in circles and spin all kinds of stories. Confuses many.
The fishing gear not reported, it was no better than a rumor.
That means that the MS chased AA for simple tresspassing, and that is all they had immediate knowledge of.
 
  • #936
[SBM for focus]

Reality is, the State will almost certainly depose him/call him as a witness, which means the defense would interview him in any case.

But....he's under no obligation this early on to consent to being interviewed by the defense. He's doing so voluntarily, and said so. That IS interesting.

This right here.
 
  • #937
The fishing gear not reported, it was no better than a rumor.
That means that the MS chased AA for simple tresspassing, and that is all they had immediate knowledge of.
I don't think they had immediate knowledge of that either.

The accused are neither the owner nor his agent. Thus they had no way of knowing whether or not AA had permission to enter the property.

And.... an appellate court in Georgia has evidently previously ruled that open construction sites must have either posted a 'no trespassing' notice or AA had been informed verbally not to enter for Criminal Trespassing charges to apply.

In the end, these three could fail at the first hurdle (Did AA actually commit a crime at all?). Even if they stumble over that one, they don't appear to be able to able to jump the second (direct knowledge of a crime?).

Then, there is the third hurdle assigned by the Georgia Supreme Court for Citizens Arrests (force must be proportional to the severity of the offense- cited instance involved a store owner shooting a shoplifter).

I think it is "game over" for them..... .
 
  • #938
Thank you for posting this - during house hunting I used to walk through neighborhoods under construction all the time without ever any issues, not once. I suspect the issue here is it was AA doing the walking...IMO

That's how my husband and I ended up in the house we live in now. Several areas of construction in the general area so we went and had a look. At the floor plans, the roof lines, the orientation. Looking at a little piece of paper with the proposed drawing on it doesn't work for me.
 
  • #939
Mr. English was very clear that he had no idea where the 2K of fishing gear was stolen from, but that it was stolen while being transported from the Satillo house to the house he was living in, a few hours away.

I think what he said was that the fishing gear was in the boat and because the boat had been transported from one location to another he couldn't specify where the theft went down so he didn't report it.
 
  • #940
I believe that many in this neighborhood with this crime on the books are doing the same kind of "philosophical musings" but the apps they were using and communicating through won't erase the original thinking process. JMHO.

I always thought the explanation of the thefts was a little fuzzy. Didn't GM and TM explain there were lots of thefts in the neighbourhood but nobody reported them because their insurance rates would go up. Report them to whom? The insurance company? Or LE?
 
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