GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

[Boxer]

MOO WB chased Arbery for 4 minutes. MOO he was shocked it ended with Arbery's death and is trying to undo his involvement. I don't think the Ms set out kill Arbery, but they assumed they had superior status to Arbery because they had suspicions he was a neighborhood thief.
When Arbery refused to submit Travis made a final blockade with a truck and a shotgun attempting to illegally detain Arbery by threat of gun violence.

 

[Cryptic]

Maybe. You only get 3, I think. And it's linked constantly here. I did see the two anonymous women who say AA was a frequent jogger in the n'hood. But I didn't see the one "who identified that AA grew up in the neighborhood." What neighborhood, and did he live there when he was shot?

Good grief...

Neither I, nor anybody, can prove a negative: Prove that he does not live some where else.

Do you have a source for the 11 mile jog claim? Or, are there discrepancies that cause you to doubt this particular New York Times article?

All in all, the New York Times is not citing say that AA was in the midst of training for a run across Georgia to raise money for childhood cancer. Nor is the area across highway a luxury resort.

Rather, the New York Times is stating that AA lived in the lower income and predominately black neighborhood on the other side of the highway. AA then, on some occasions, liked to jog in a nearby neighborhood that is not exactly behind a series of guarded security gates and populated by CEOs.

In the absence of sources evidence to the contrary, the NYT articles seems pretty plausible to me.

 

[firebird]

Good grief...

Neither I, nor anybody, can prove a negative: Prove that he does not live some where else.

Do you have a source for the 11 mile jog claim? Or, are the discrepancies that cause you to doubt this particular New York Times article?

All in all, the New York Times is not citing say that AA was in the midst of training for a run across Georgia to raise money for childhood cancer. Nor is the area across highway a luxury resort.

Rather, the New York Times is stating that AA lived in the lower income and predominately black neighborhood on the other side of the highway. AA then, on some occasions, liked to jog in a nearby neighborhood that is not exactly behind a series of guarded security gates and populated by CEOs.

In the absence of sources evidence to the contrary, the NYT articles seems pretty plausible to me.

I never claimed he lived 11 miles away and I never asked for proof that he doesn't live somewhere else. I think you're arguing with the wrong person.

 

[tlcya]

Ahmaud Arbery was chased for over 4 minutes before being shot, killed, attorney says

The video in it's entirety will be most telling. Makes one wonder why only the last seconds of the video were released by attorney Tucker in a misguided attempt to "quell tensions" and illustrate why we should beleive GM and TM did nothing wrong.

Those few seconds initially released were intended to explain to the public why it was "necessary" to shoot AA. The rest of the 4 minute video cannot be good for the Ms or for WB. MOO

 

[Nadi]

I never claimed he lived 11 miles away and I never asked for proof that he doesn't live somewhere else. I think you're arguing with the wrong person.

No you may not have not have claimed that but when the OP posted it without citing a source you never asked for a source. Only sources that support the victim seem to be required, how far he lives, if he even jogs etc, and then when provided while following TOS aren’t good enough for you.

 

[Cryptic]

I never claimed he lived 11 miles away and I never asked for proof that he doesn't live somewhere else. I think you're arguing with the wrong person.

No, you expect me to prove a negative by proving that he does not live somewhere else. I cant do that.

 

[Boxer]

It's sad all the way around. Gregory McMichael.
Why was he living at his sons house? Why was he so careless to leave his sons truck unlocked with a handgun in it? Travis has a young son who could have got a hold of it.
Why pull his son into a a hot pursuit?
And finally why mount a seperate defense from his son? A seperate defense which ultimately means trimming his own guilt at the expense of his son.
GM should be trying collect as much blame to himself as he can.

 

[kaen]

It seems to me that the reason the GBI moved so fast is that the only "facts" that were originally released were not all of the information gathered by LEO and the DA's office. Once they saw more, it became clearer that this was not a "heat of the moment" issue but rather a build to a confrontation issue. What time did the accused killer's father start his 911 call? Before or after the chase was in motion? Four minutes is a long, long time to chase someone on foot. Mr. Arbery was probably trying to escape for most of that time. My heart sinks for hi once again. I can't imagine my 20 something child being in terror for four minutes or even two. I am thinking of Mr. Arbery's family again as they must be devastated and feeling betrayed once more.


From New video shows Ahmaud Arbery chased for 4 minutes by father and son who shot him: lawyer:


Ahmaud Arbery, the Georgia jogger gunned down by a white father and son with links to local law enforcement, was chased for more than four minutes by the duo and a neighbor who filmed the incident before he was shot and killed, an attorney for Arbery's family said.

Lawyer Lee Merritt confirmed Monday that the new video shows William Bryan, Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son Travis McMichael, 34, chasing the unarmed black man for several minutes in the quiet Satilla Shores neighborhood near Brunswick, Ga., before opening fire.

 

[Nadi]

It's sad all the way around. Gregory McMichael.
Why was he living at his sons house? Why was he so careless to leave his sons truck unlocked with a handgun in it? Travis has a young son who could have got a hold of it.
Why pull his son into a a hot pursuit?
And finally why mount a seperate defense from his son? A seperate defense which ultimately means trimming his own guilt at the expense of his son.
GM should be trying collect as much blame to himself as he can.

You would think that his employment history and his loss of power to arrest for so many years because of lack of training would have taught him something and he would have not put himself or his son in this position. Maybe it had the opposite effect? Maybe he had years of pent up frustration and embarrassment over his job limitations.

 

[Hope4More]

About the pursuit being 4 minutes. This we already knew, from piecing together the timing of 911 calls and surveillance video. That Roddy's video, as released, only captured the approximately last minute of 4 we also already knew.

The new reporting on a 4 minute pursuit is muddled. It doesn't sound like what's being said is that there's video showing the entire 4 minutes. What it sounds like is that an attorney for AA's family is saying that after putting together all the known pieces, Roddy's video shows only the end of a 4 minute chase.

If the latter is the case, this isn't new news. If there IS a 4 minute long video, then it's very surprising that Roddy hasn't been charged, at least as an accomplice of some sort. Because it would mean he began filming almost literally from the first moment of pursuit, implying he knew precisely what was unfolding and was a full participant.

 

[branmuffin]

One thing this NYT piece did was make me realize I've been wrong about the layout of the neighborhood's roads. I thought Satilla Drive looped all the way around, but misremembered and/or misread the interactive maps I looked up. Sorry for posting inaccurate info, and then inaccurate conclusions based on bad info.

Seeing the actual layout of roads, the path of pursuit is puzzling, and imo, way more disturbing.

The MMs chased AA on Holmes going in one direction but killed him while pointing in the other direction, and just yards away from the intersection of Satilla and Holmes. From beginning to end, the pursuit lasted about 4 minutes. That's a long time, actually, to account for the trivial distance between the beginning and final locations the MMs and Roddy supposedly drove.

I'm even more convinced that either Roddy deliberately didn't begin recording until a trap was in place, or that as one of the attorneys for AA's family has suggested, his video has been edited, as in, parts of it deleted. The fact GM lied about locations and sequence strengthens that suspicion

Given the amount of time that elapsed from Buford to the end, and the location/ direction GM's truck was pointing in, I also really wonder if another person and vehicle was involved, specifically, on Holmes, forcing AA to turn back again, this time while on Holmes, towards Satilla.

Wondering that makes me curious about where Perez went after he drove into surveillance camera sight one minute before AA appears on the video. And then drove past his house, only to appear again -twice, the second time on Jones, shortly after LE arrived on the scene, darting from there into his driveway.

Perez's vehicle is seen more than once driving around the neighborhood before LE is on the scene. It's all on the security tape set up at 219 Satilla Dr. After ending up behind a police car driving to the scene of the crime he loops around coming up Jones Rd then enters his own driveway, gets out of his vehicle and runs toward the scene.

I find it odd that people listed on the 'witness' list are people who were supposedly not actually there when the whole thing went down. First there's Perez and then there's Matthew Albenze who lives at 307 Jones Rd. What good are witnesses if they arrive on the scene after the fact?

I think that security film provides a wealth of information to the GBI. I'm also thinking the GBI are going to be interested in why the 'mystery ' man standing across the street from 230 Satilla Dr stayed there after AA left the construction site. He was still on the phone but to who? TM couldn't be in two places at once. Supposedly on the 911 call eyeballing a trespasser 'there he goes now' and being inside his own home when his dad bursts in to the house yelling the suspected burglar is running up the road and to grab his shotgun. It especially seems suspect considering the suspects' sister and daughter was supposedly watching a movie and had no idea what was going on until she heard shots fired.

It's a crazy quilt of lies, innuendos, fiction and subterfuge woven together to paint AA as a dangerous suspect everyone in the community was fearful of. But I think the story is unraveling to the point some of those steadfast defenders of the MMs will start to weigh covering for them against covering their own asses. Roddie is only the first.

 

[sds71]

About the pursuit being 4 minutes. This we already knew, from piecing together the timing of 911 calls and surveillance video. That Roddy's video, as released, only captured the approximately last minute of 4 we also already knew.

The new reporting on a 4 minute pursuit is muddled. It doesn't sound like what's being said is that there's video showing the entire 4 minutes. What it sounds like is that an attorney for AA's family is saying that after putting together all the known pieces, Roddy's video shows only the end of a 4 minute chase.

If the latter is the case, this isn't new news. If there IS a 4 minute long video, then it's very surprising that Roddy hasn't been charged, at least as an accomplice of some sort. Because it would mean he began filming almost literally from the first moment of pursuit, implying he knew precisely what was unfolding and was a full participant.

Do you think some neighbors came forward with Ring cam footage?

 

[tlcya]

Lawyer Lee Merritt confirmed Monday that the new video shows William Bryan, Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son Travis McMichael, 34, chasing the unarmed black man for several minutes in the quiet Satilla Shores neighborhood near Brunswick, Ga., before opening fire.

New video shows Ahmaud Arbery chased for 4 minutes by father and son who shot him: lawyer

I think this is not new video per se. I believe the GBI and police on the scene of the shooting saw it immediately upon becoming involved in the case. Which is why LE on the scene wanted to proceed to charge the Ms. I also believe it is why the GBI charged so quickly. I think the additional minutes of this video were only just recently seen by family or the attorney's representing the parents of Ahmaud Arbery (note: mom has Merritt and dad has Crump apparently) hence it being called new in reports

 

[Hope4More]

Perez's vehicle is seen more than once driving around the neighborhood before LE is on the scene. It's all on the security tape set up at 219 Satilla Dr. After ending up behind a police car driving to the scene of the crime he loops around coming up Jones Rd then enters his own driveway, gets out of his vehicle and runs toward the scene.

I find it odd that people listed on the 'witness' list are people who were supposedly not actually there when the whole thing went down. First there's Perez and then there's Matthew Albenze who lives at 307 Jones Rd. What good are witnesses if they arrive on the scene after the fact?

I think that security film provides a wealth of information to the GBI. I'm also thinking the GBI are going to be interested in why the 'mystery ' man standing across the street from 230 Satilla Dr stayed there after AA left the construction site. He was still on the phone but to who? TM couldn't be in two places at once. Supposedly on the 911 call eyeballing a trespasser 'there he goes now' and being inside his own home when his dad bursts in to the house yelling the suspected burglar is running up the road and to grab his shotgun. It especially seems suspect considering the suspects' sister and daughter was supposedly watching a movie and had no idea what was going on until she heard shots fired.

It's a crazy quilt of lies, innuendos, fiction and subterfuge woven together to paint AA as a dangerous suspect everyone in the community was fearful of. But I think the story is unraveling to the point some of those steadfast defenders of the MMs will start to weigh covering for them against covering their own asses. Roddie is only the first.

The man in the video is calling 911. We know who this man is. It is not TM.

Based on where and when Perez shows up in the video, I think it's a good guess that he was the first to see AA in the neighborhood. Given the immediacy of everything that followed, I'm also guessing that Perez put out an alert, perhaps on FB.

That would explain the timing of the 911 caller walking to the intersection of Jones & Satilla to check if the trespasser had actually gone on the property. IMO, it would also explain how it was that Roddy was instantly in his truck & ready to join in.

Last, witnesses doesn't necessarily mean eye witnesses. For instance, the home owner with the surveillance camera (219 Satilla) is listed as a witness, perhaps because LE viewed /intended to view his videos.

 

[Hope4More]

Do you think some neighbors came forward with Ring cam footage?

Possibly, and/or maybe old fashioned eye witnesses who saw portions of the pursuit. On Burford and/or Holmes in particular.

And/or Merritt has gained access to what was posted on the neighborhood's FB page. Who knows what treasures are to be found there, but I'm thinking a dragon's hoard.

 

[Matic]

How many houses do you reckon AA passed during this 4 minute chase? Are there any reports of him yelling for help or banging on any doors? Cutting thru neighbors yard to an adjacent street? Seems like he just keeps a steady jog going on in the road and back tracks once?

I'm not a jogger but I could almost get half way out of my addition in 4 minutes. Just guestimating but that's atleast 40 houses considering there's houses on both sides of the road. And those houses are practically sitting on top of one another.

For those many people that say you would have done the exact same and run directly at someone holding a shotgun, weave right and juke left to attack that person. Wouldn't you be yelling for help and beating on some doors before actually running into a situation where you knew it was certain death? Logic says no.

 

[Cryptic]

I think the story is unraveling to the point some of those steadfast defenders of the MMs will start to weigh covering for them against covering their own asses. Roddie is only the first.

Directly said, and well said.

As you noted, one man has apparently converted from active participant to 'horrified bystander'. The GBI has said that they will "leave no stone unturned" in their investigation.

Though there could well be others with sudden conversions, additional criminal charges beyond the McMichaels could be difficult if those criminal charges are 'Party to' based.

My vague impression is that 'Party to' would need to be supported by proof of prior coordination and good knowledge that the principal actor was going to commit a crime afterwards.

In this case, proof of prior coordination might be readily available. But.... identifying a trespasser and calling the police is not a crime. Thus, direct proof might be needed that the other individuals knew that the McMichaels were probably going to commit a crime.

That level of proof maybe hard to show. A potential defense could then counter with: Ok, my client was only party to a hyper vigilant, but completely legal effort, to identify a certain trespasser and to call police. He had no knowledge that a crime would probably be committed afterwards....

 

[Hope4More]

Directly said, and well said.

As you noted, one man has apparently converted from active participant to 'horrified bystander'. The GBI has said that they will "leave no stone unturned" in their investigation.

Though there could well be others with sudden conversions, additional criminal charges beyond the McMichaels could be difficult if those criminal charges are 'Party to' based.

My vague impression is that 'Party to' would need to be supported by proof of prior coordination and good knowledge that the principal actor was going to commit a crime.

In this case, proof of prior coordination might be readily available. But.... identifying a trespasser and calling the police is not a crime. This could lead to the need for direct proof that the other individuals knew that the McMichaels were probably going to commit a crime once the trespasser had been identified.

That level of proof maybe hard to show. A potential defense could then counter with: Ok, my client was only party to a hyper vigilant, but completely legal effort, to identify a certain trespasser and to call police. He had no knowledge that a crime would probably be committed afterwards....

LE hasn't even arrested Roddy yet, and his own video proves he was involved in chasing AA down and cornering him. And "party to" is multiple degrees of legal separation from Roddy's situation.

 

[Leve]

How many houses do you reckon AA passed during this 4 minute chase? Are there any reports of him yelling for help or banging on any doors? Cutting thru neighbors yard to an adjacent street? Seems like he just keeps a steady jog going on in the road and back tracks once?

I'm not a jogger but I could almost get half way out of my addition in 4 minutes. Just guestimating but that's atleast 40 houses considering there's houses on both sides of the road. And those houses are practically sitting on top of one another.

For those many people that say you would have done the exact same and run directly at someone holding a shotgun, weave right and juke left to attack that person. Wouldn't you be yelling for help and beating on some doors before actually running into a situation where you knew it was certain death? Logic says no.

Ever heard of Renisha McBride or Jonathan Ferrell?

AA was being chased by 3 white guys with weapons, I doubt he felt safe running up to someone's door at that point.

 

[Hope4More]

How many houses do you reckon AA passed during this 4 minute chase? Are there any reports of him yelling for help or banging on any doors? Cutting thru neighbors yard to an adjacent street? Seems like he just keeps a steady jog going on in the road and back tracks once?

I'm not a jogger but I could almost get half way out of my addition in 4 minutes. Just guestimating but that's atleast 40 houses considering there's houses on both sides of the road. And those houses are practically sitting on top of one another.

For those many people that say you would have done the exact same and run directly at someone holding a shotgun, weave right and juke left to attack that person. Wouldn't you be yelling for help and beating on some doors before actually running into a situation where you knew it was certain death? Logic says no.

Always the questioning about choices the victim made. The fact that in the 4 minutes of being furiously chased down by 2 big trucks and 2 to 3 screaming men, not ONE SINGLE PERSON in the neighborhood witnessing the barbarity called 911 is evidence aplenty there was no help to be had. IMO