GA - Ex-POTUS Donald Trump and others indicted, 13 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, Aug 2023 *4 guilty* #3

[IzzyBlanche]

In case y'all haven't read it, Willis completely torched Jim Jordan in her letter to him.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23941366/jim-jordan-letter.pdf

 

[Lilibet]

In case y'all haven't read it, Willis completely torched Jim Jordan in her letter to him.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23941366/jim-jordan-letter.pdf

It was a thing of beauty! Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

 

[BritsKate]

In thinking about who wasn't charged - some people may be cooperating to avoid charges; some may be more valuable to the State as material fact witnesses, but the politicians may have been deliberately exluded so as not to wade into having to argue Constitutional issues. Congress, unlike the White House, does actually have a role to play in elections and throw in the Speech and Debate Clause too I'm not really shocked they were left on the editing floor.

But man, would I like to see Lindsey Graham indicted.

JMO and FWIW

(Oh and Fani Willis letter? Extra shade there was 'as a non-member of the bar you can purchase a copy for price of $249' - Jim Jordan has a law degree but never took the bar. Nice little reminder for the Congressman that she's a REAL lawyer.)

 

[LibraStarr]

In case y'all haven't read it, Willis completely torched Jim Jordan in her letter to him.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23941366/jim-jordan-letter.pdf

She is my hero. This is amazing.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Wonder who this refers to?

A majority of the Grand Jury believes that perjury may have been committed by one or more witnesses testifying before it. The Grand Jury recommends that the District Attorney seek appropriate indictments for such crimes where the evidence is compelling.

And it doesn't appear to me that the jurors thought the whole thing was a political ploy by Willis. BBM:

The Grand Jury wishes to acknowledge the hardworking attorneys and staff of the Fulton County District Attorney's office. Any legal errors contained in this report should not be laid at their feet, however, because that Office had nothing to do with the recommendations contained herein.

 

[BritsKate]

Wonder who this refers to?

A majority of the Grand Jury believes that perjury may have been committed by one or more witnesses testifying before it. The Grand Jury recommends that the District Attorney seek appropriate indictments for such crimes where the evidence is compelling.

And it doesn't appear to me that the jurors thought the whole thing was a political ploy by Willis. BBM:

The Grand Jury wishes to acknowledge the hardworking attorneys and staff of the Fulton County District Attorney's office. Any legal errors contained in this report should not be laid at their feet, however, because that Office had nothing to do with the recommendations contained herein.

Robert Cheeley (local attorney) and Cathy Latham (Coffee County GOP chair) were both charged with perjury. All I really have to say to the folks still claiming this is a politically motivated prosecution (I realize that's not you, Izzy), someone may want to let Ms. Willis know she forgot to indict a few Senators.

You ask me - that goes a long way to prove that theory wrong. JMO
---------------
And it probably goes without saying but BARD needs to be on the list of reasons she didn't indict. The Special Grand Jury recommendations are all about probable cause but only a prosecutor could determine if he/she can prove it to a trial jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[MyBelle]

I agree with Mr. Taylor.

JMO

About 49% of Republican voters surveyed said the Fulton charges against Trump are very serious or somewhat serious. But a whopping 94% said they think politics played a role in District Attorney Fani Willis’ decision to indict him and the other defendants.

“I can see if she wanted to bring limited charges against Trump,” Cherokee County resident Joe Lawhon said. “But to bring in the whole crowd and to make it a three-ring circus?”

Mark Taylor of Ben Hill County supports Trump for president and said the charges do not concern him.

“I feel like he’s going to make Georgia look like a bunch of idiots,” Taylor said. “He’ll make a complete circus out of what they’re trying to do.”

AJC poll: Georgia Republicans say politics behind Fulton charges

Georgia Republican voters overwhelmingly believe the charges filed against Donald Trump in Fulton County this month are politically motivated, a new Atlanta Journal-Constitution survey found.

www.ajc.com

 

[BritsKate]

I agree with Mr. Taylor.

JMO

About 49% of Republican voters surveyed said the Fulton charges against Trump are very serious or somewhat serious. But a whopping 94% said they think politics played a role in District Attorney Fani Willis’ decision to indict him and the other defendants.

“I can see if she wanted to bring limited charges against Trump,” Cherokee County resident Joe Lawhon said. “But to bring in the whole crowd and to make it a three-ring circus?”

Mark Taylor of Ben Hill County supports Trump for president and said the charges do not concern him.

“I feel like he’s going to make Georgia look like a bunch of idiots,” Taylor said. “He’ll make a complete circus out of what they’re trying to do.”

AJC poll: Georgia Republicans say politics behind Fulton charges

Georgia Republican voters overwhelmingly believe the charges filed against Donald Trump in Fulton County this month are politically motivated, a new Atlanta Journal-Constitution survey found.

www.ajc.com

From your link:

The University of Georgia conducted the survey of 807 likely Georgia Republican primary voters Aug. 16-23 — after the indictment but before Trump surrendered to county authorities Thursday.

Of course Republicans overwhelmingly believe the prosecutions against him are politically motivated! There's been a concerted effort to paint it as such. But if you expand it to all voters, a different tale is told.

According to the latest figures, 52% of voters approve of the Georgia grand jury’s decision to indict Trump, matching public support for both of his federal indictments with slightly fewer voters disapproving.

Similarly, the bulk of the electorate (47%) said the Georgia grand jury’s decision reflects evidence that he committed a crime, 9 percentage points higher than the share who said it reflects motivation to damage his political career (38%). Both figures are in line with surveys conducted after his three previous indictments, showing that a plurality of the overall electorate is not inclined to believe Trump’s claims of political persecution by the Biden administration.

Most Voters Want Trump’s Georgia Case Handled by Election Day 2024

However, the bulk of GOP voters say even Trump’s imprisonment wouldn’t shake their support

pro.morningconsult.com

Fifty-nine percent of respondents — including nearly two-thirds of independents — said that the Justice Department’s decision to indict Trump in the 2020 election case was based on a fair evaluation of the evidence and the law...In fact, more people believe Trump is guilty of weaponizing the legal system than Biden. Fifty-three percent of respondents — including 56 percent of independents — said that the Trump administration actively used the Justice Department to investigate political enemies with little or no evidence of actual wrongdoing. The comparable number for the Biden administration was 45 percent across all respondents, including 43 percent of independents.

Lock Him Up? A New Poll Has Some Bad News for Trump

A new POLITICO Magazine/Ipsos poll punctures some prevailing political narratives about the Trump indictments.

www.politico.com

 

[sds71]

Federal judge rejects request from ex-Trump WH chief Mark Meadows to remove the Fulton County case to federal court

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.319225/gov.uscourts.gand.319225.69.0.pdf

 

[BritsKate]

Federal judge rejects request from ex-Trump WH chief Mark Meadows to remove the Fulton County case to federal court

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.319225/gov.uscourts.gand.319225.69.0.pdf

YES!!!!!! Thank you, sds71! Now to wait for the inevitable appeal though. And if Meadows didn't get removal ain't nobody gonna get removal. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Federal judge rejects request from ex-Trump WH chief Mark Meadows to remove the Fulton County case to federal court

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.319225/gov.uscourts.gand.319225.69.0.pdf

Thanks! I think Meadows filed that motion with a goal of appealing the decision.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Federal judge rejects request from ex-Trump WH chief Mark Meadows to remove the Fulton County case to federal court

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.319225/gov.uscourts.gand.319225.69.0.pdf

Setting aside the appeal process for a sec, this denial removes the double-jeopardy concern, right?

jmo

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I agree with Mr. Taylor.

JMO

About 49% of Republican voters surveyed said the Fulton charges against Trump are very serious or somewhat serious. But a whopping 94% said they think politics played a role in District Attorney Fani Willis’ decision to indict him and the other defendants.

“I can see if she wanted to bring limited charges against Trump,” Cherokee County resident Joe Lawhon said. “But to bring in the whole crowd and to make it a three-ring circus?”

Mark Taylor of Ben Hill County supports Trump for president and said the charges do not concern him.

“I feel like he’s going to make Georgia look like a bunch of idiots,” Taylor said. “He’ll make a complete circus out of what they’re trying to do.”

AJC poll: Georgia Republicans say politics behind Fulton charges

Georgia Republican voters overwhelmingly believe the charges filed against Donald Trump in Fulton County this month are politically motivated, a new Atlanta Journal-Constitution survey found.

www.ajc.com

Note to Mr. Taylor:

The only people in Georgia (and elsewhere) who look like a bunch of idiots to me are the ones still supporting Trump after four indictments.

JMO

 

[BritsKate]

I'd be really surprised if it is overturned on appeal - it is an absolutely meticulously researched, extremely thorough decision. However, it's also a very strong slapdown. Judge Jones is very clear that Meadows didn't even come close to proving what needed proving and he himself was unable to separate his actions as Chief of Staff from his actions campaigning for Trump.

IANAL but I think double jeopardy would remain a distant concern until an appeal is decided. It only really matters though as to when to go to trial because it's when a jury is sworn that the defendant is in jeopardy. So if Judge McAfee doesn't force everyone to trial October 23rd (and I don't believe he will), it shouldn't be an issue.

It's not a reason to suspend the case in state court but it's also not a reason to rush ahead either, if that makes sense.

JMO

Rather, the Court concludes that if it were to agree with Meadows’s arguments regarding removal, the Court would have to turn a blind eye to express constitutional power granted to the States to determine their election procedures, as well as federal statutory and regulatory limitations on political activities of executive branch officials. The Court would be ignoring the evidence Meadows himself submitted of his post-election related activities and the purpose of the federal officer removal statute. It would be legally and factually erroneous for the Court to do so.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'd be really surprised if it is overturned on appeal - it is an absolutely meticulously researched, extremely thorough decision. However, it's also a very strong slapdown. Judge Jones is very clear that Meadows didn't even come close to proving what needed proving and was he himself unable to separate his actions as Chief of Staff from his actions campaigning for Trump.

IANAL but I think double jeopardy would remain a distant concern until an appeal is decided. It only really matters though as to when to go to trial because it's when a jury is sworn that the defendant is in jeopardy. So if Judge McAfee doesn't force everyone to trial October 23rd (and I don't believe he will), it shouldn't be an issue.

It's not a reason to suspend the case in state court but it's also not a reason to rush ahead either, if that makes sense.

JMO

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks. Yet another complication to keep track of!

jmo

 

[MyBelle]

The only people in Georgia (and elsewhere) who look like a bunch of idiots to me are the ones still supporting Trump after four indictments.

JMO

Voters are allowed to vote for whomever they want. I didn't vote for Trump, but I also don't fault those who did, considering several of them are in my own family.

An indictment isn't a conviction. Especially considering the special grand jury report released today shows that none of the indictments against Trump were unanimous.

JMO

Grand jury investigations and jury trials are very different proceedings, of course. But the fact that one juror had doubts even with the lower standard to indict illustrates what a tough task it will be for Fani Willis - and all the other prosecutors who have brought charges against Mr Trump this year - to get a unanimous vote for a conviction.

The juror who backed Trump and other Georgia grand jury takeaways

One member of the Georgia grand jury voted against charging Mr Trump - that will worry prosecutors.

www.bbc.com

 

[BritsKate]

Obviously, anytime you take a case to trial there's a risk of a mistrial, hung jury, jury nullification, juror misconduct and all sorts of other nasties that are probably keeping Fani Willis and her team from getting a good night's sleep. So much to worry over and contend with - especially with a gargantuan case with some very powerful defendants under intense media scrutiny while also fielding threats to personal safety and racist abuse.

All that said though, statistically a hung jury happens in just 6.2% of cases. It's obviously not impossible but it's also not overly likely either. 75% of cases taken to trial end in conviction.

I am the very first person though to say no one ever knows how a jury will ultimately respond to the evidence put before them and that absolutely does swing both ways. So I won't say it can't happen but I also wouldn't bank on a juror hanging if I had the option of cutting a deal with the DA either.

All JMO

https://www.courtstatistics.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/30559/A-Profile-of-Hung-Juries.pdf

 

[kaen]

I am just gratified that a full airing of the evidence will occur. I am tired of the hidden. The behavior of so many of these people pushing a lie deserves sunlight. Let the people of the US see the evidence and let them mount a defense. Juries usually do the right thing. So let a jury do it’s work. Jmho.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/08/politics/giuliani-georgia-election-interference-case-challenge/index.html

 

[LaborDayRN]

The numbers are really something - overwhelming yes votes to almost every charge. Could potentially foreshadow what a trial jury may conclude. (Every charge is 19 or 20 Yes votes to 1 or 2 No.)

I didn't count it myself but msnbc is reporting that 21 people were recommended for indictment but ultimately weren't. Remember the indictment states there are 30 undindicted co-conspirators so a handful of people are missing from this report. (A couple of defendants have filed motions to have the unindicted co-conspirators names but I don't think that motion will be granted. It's standard DOJ protocol that unindicted people aren't named publicly with few caveats.)

FWIW

Does anyone think that some of these 21 people who weren't indicted may have made deals to testify?