GA - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 10 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, 14 Aug 2023

[Lilibet]

Thanks for posting.

Another interesting article (from 2020):

Trump Is Looking for Fraud in All the Wrong Places

The defeated president tried to sow doubts about Georgia and other swing states that laboriously upgraded their voting systems, while safe red states keep using antiquated equipment.

www.theatlantic.com

From this excellent Atlantic article, it becomes clear that the faux outrage over the “untrustworthy” voting machines in Georgia is what is truly politically motivated, not Fani Willis. The investigation and charges brought by the unbiased citizens on the Fulton county grand jury are clearly based on criminal acts. JMO

From the link…
Happily, many states have heeded the advice of experts in recent years, implementing routine audits and replacing direct-recording electronic, or DRE, machines, an antiquated technology in which touch screens record choices without creating a paper ballot for the voter to inspect. Yet several states that have done virtually everything right, many at the urging of Republican officials previously seen as Trump allies, have found themselves at the center of conspiracy theories.

Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Michigan have successfully replaced their DRE machines—meaning every voter either hand-marks a ballot or is presented with a printed paper record of their selections to verify—and implemented risk-limiting audit programs. In Pennsylvania, this involved a Herculean effort: As recently as 2018, the majority of the state’s voters cast ballots with no paper trail. Michigan, meanwhile, had a slight head start, approving a major initiative to update its voting equipment back in 2017.

In practice, these changes make electronic “vote rigging” on the scale necessary to shift the outcome of a statewide election highly infeasible, especially when the margin of victory is tens of thousands of votes. Multiple hand recounts in Georgia, unsurprisingly, turned up no evidence of digital shenanigans.

Meanwhile, eight states—Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, New Jersey, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee—still use DRE machines with no paper trail, in at least some precincts. You probably haven’t heard any vote-rigging conspiracy theories concerning those states lately, because none of them is a battleground state, and Trump comfortably won all of them but New Jersey. In other words, voter anxiety about election security is being stoked in states that have behaved responsibly, while states that have been less responsive to expert advice get a free pass, because highlighting their shortcomings does nothing to advance a partisan narrative.
BBM

Trump Is Looking for Fraud in All the Wrong Places

The defeated president tried to sow doubts about Georgia and other swing states that laboriously upgraded their voting systems, while safe red states keep using antiquated equipment.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[TDoc72]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>I have quite a few family members in Georgia who do not trust the Dominion machines and believe the 2020 election was stolen as well as the 2021 Senate election. You may mock it, but they do not.

JMO

I have family that believes it too. Still doesn’t make it true.

One of the streaming services has a documentary about Four Seasons Total Landscaping. I think it's Peacock or NBC Universal.
I wish I could have seen it. (Mainly because I like quirky stuff)

It's a humorous documentary about the notoriety that the business went through. Shows the business etc.

Trailer is in the article.

Watch the trailer for the Four Seasons Total Landscaping documentary premiering this week

Philly based business that hosted Rudy Giuliani's press conference after the election premiers Sunday at 10 p.m. on MSNBC

www.phillyvoice.com

It’s available onDemand right now; it may be streaming too. It was pretty good. The company said that it was planned all along, because of access to highways and that it was free. I felt bad for the company, as they got some heat from both R & D people.

I might be spitballing here, but I expect that Trump's report confirming voter fraud in Georgia, that he said he was going to release on Monday, is stuck somewhere in a bathroom where he also keeps

1. His infrastructure plan.
2. His healthcare plan.
3. Melania's immigration documents.
4. His tax returns.

That he swore he would release but never did.

Am I missing anything?

I want to give this post 1000 likes!

 

[Inthedetails]

From this excellent Atlantic article, it becomes clear that the faux outrage over the “untrustworthy” voting machines in Georgia is what is truly politically motivated, not Fani Willis. The investigation and charges brought by the unbiased citizens on the Fulton county grand jury are clearly based on criminal acts. JMO

From the link…
Happily, many states have heeded the advice of experts in recent years, implementing routine audits and replacing direct-recording electronic, or DRE, machines, an antiquated technology in which touch screens record choices without creating a paper ballot for the voter to inspect. Yet several states that have done virtually everything right, many at the urging of Republican officials previously seen as Trump allies, have found themselves at the center of conspiracy theories.

Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Michigan have successfully replaced their DRE machines—meaning every voter either hand-marks a ballot or is presented with a printed paper record of their selections to verify—and implemented risk-limiting audit programs. In Pennsylvania, this involved a Herculean effort: As recently as 2018, the majority of the state’s voters cast ballots with no paper trail. Michigan, meanwhile, had a slight head start, approving a major initiative to update its voting equipment back in 2017.

In practice, these changes make electronic “vote rigging” on the scale necessary to shift the outcome of a statewide election highly infeasible, especially when the margin of victory is tens of thousands of votes. Multiple hand recounts in Georgia, unsurprisingly, turned up no evidence of digital shenanigans.

Meanwhile, eight states—Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, New Jersey, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee—still use DRE machines with no paper trail, in at least some precincts. You probably haven’t heard any vote-rigging conspiracy theories concerning those states lately, because none of them is a battleground state, and Trump comfortably won all of them but New Jersey. In other words, voter anxiety about election security is being stoked in states that have behaved responsibly, while states that have been less responsive to expert advice get a free pass, because highlighting their shortcomings does nothing to advance a partisan narrative.
BBM

Trump Is Looking for Fraud in All the Wrong Places

The defeated president tried to sow doubts about Georgia and other swing states that laboriously upgraded their voting systems, while safe red states keep using antiquated equipment.

www.theatlantic.com

This is worth repeating imo:
"Multiple hand recounts in Georgia, unsurprisingly, turned up no evidence of digital shenanigans."

From the link above.

 

[musicaljoke]

I wonder if the lawyers threatened to resign if he went ahead with it.

This doesn't seem like something Trump would do, on his own.

He wouldn't care if they resigned. But he might take note if they told him he could end up in prison until the trial for contempt of court. This judge isn't taking any sass.

 

[Inthedetails]

For anyone who still has lingering questions and uncertainty about the election, the scheme was designed that way. The plan was to make you uncertain and to use your uncertainty to bolster and then support the overthrow of a legal and legitimate election.

It was a dupe from the start. The uncertainty and doubt were sowed on purpose.

On Dec 23, 2020 one Trump lawyer (Eastman) emailed another Trump lawyer (Chesebro):

"The fact that we have multiple slates of electors demonstrates the uncertainty of either. That should be enough."

Let that soak in.

There is no such legal thing as "multiple slates of electors." There are legal electors, period. They created fake electors and they created "uncertainty." On purpose.

They purposely sowed uncertainty about our legal, legit elections to undermine confidence of Americans and to overthrow the election.

On purpose.

The uncertainty is a con job.

jmo


Read it yourself: page 44, Act 94.

23SC188947 - CRIMINAL INDICTMENT

www.documentcloud.org

 

[vls12345]

Indicted Trump elector Shawn Still could be suspended from Georgia Senate | Here's when

Shawn Still was one of the 19 defendants indicted in the Georgia 2020 election case.

www.11alive.com

 

[sds71]

When conspiracy theorist Alex Jones marched his way to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, riling up his legion of supporters, an unassuming middle-aged man in a red “Trump 2020” hat conspicuously tagged along.

Videos and photographs reviewed by CNN show the man dutifully recording Jones with his phone as the bombastic media personality ascended to the restricted area of the Capitol grounds where mobs of then-President Donald Trump’s supporters eventually broke in.

While the man’s actions outside the Capitol that day have drawn little scrutiny, his alleged connections to a plot to overthrow the 2020 election have recently come into sharp focus: He is attorney Kenneth Chesebro, the alleged architect of the scheme to subvert the 2020 Electoral College process by using fake GOP electors in multiple states.

When asked by the House select committee where he was the first week of January 2021 and on January 6, Chesebro invoked his Fifth Amendment rights. But a CNN investigation has placed him outside of the Capitol at the same time as his alleged plot to keep Trump in office unraveled inside it.

There is no indication Chesebro entered the Capitol Building or was violent.

It was unclear why Chesebro was following Jones on January 6.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/18/politics/kfile-kenneth-chesebro-followed-alex-jones-capitol-riot-jan-6/index.html

 

[waldojabba]

Unlike a grand jury--which only needs a majority--all 12 jurors need to agree. If my family is any indication, there will not be a majority who agree with the DA's obvious political agenda.

JMO

Any juror - regardless of their current political opinion - is obligated to sit on that jury and evaluate the evidence and render a verdict in accordance with the evidence. If your family members and/or others cannot as you suggest be impartial, I would expect if they were called for jury duty that they would be honest when questioned and they would not be seated. JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Indicted Trump elector Shawn Still could be suspended from Georgia Senate | Here's when

Shawn Still was one of the 19 defendants indicted in the Georgia 2020 election case.

www.11alive.com

Shawn Still is a fake elector and serves in the Georgia state senate. He is charged with:

Violation of Georgia RICO Act
Impersonating a Public Officer
Forgery in the First Degree
False Statements and Writings
Criminal Attempt to Commit False Statements and Writings

From the article linked in the quote posted, the governor will appoint a commission to review the Georgia indictment. Attorney General Chris Carr will serve on the commission. That name sounded familiar to me. For those reading along the indictment:

On December 8, 2020 Trump called Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr to make false statements about election fraud in Georgia and elsewhere. Trump asked Carr not to discourage other state attorneys general from joining false federal lawsuit filed in Texas contesting the election in GA, MI, PA, WI.

(Reminder, that lawsuit was quickly thrown out as Texas had no right to file a suit on behalf of other states.)

I don't know if Carr's name shows up again in the indictment as I'm not all the way through it. I'm not accusing Carr of anything, just recognizing his name and seeing that Trump attempted to pull him in the scheme. imo

Info from the link in quoted post plus:

23SC188947 - CRIMINAL INDICTMENT

www.documentcloud.org

Regarding bogus Texas lawsuit:

U.S. Supreme Court throws out Texas lawsuit contesting 2020 election results in four battleground states

The lawsuit challenged election results in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. The high court said Texas did not have standing to bring the case.

www.texastribune.org

 

[Lilibet]

For anyone who still has lingering questions and uncertainty about the election, the scheme was designed that way. The plan was to make you uncertain and to use your uncertainty to bolster and then support the overthrow of a legal and legitimate election.

It was a dupe from the start. The uncertainty and doubt were sowed on purpose.

On Dec 23, 2020 one Trump lawyer (Eastman) emailed another Trump lawyer (Chesebro):

"The fact that we have multiple slates of electors demonstrates the uncertainty of either. That should be enough."

Let that soak in.

There is no such legal thing as "multiple slates of electors." There are legal electors, period. They created fake electors and they created "uncertainty." On purpose.

They purposely sowed uncertainty about our legal, legit elections to undermine confidence of Americans and to overthrow the election.

On purpose.

The uncertainty is a con job.

jmo


Read it yourself: page 44, Act 94.

23SC188947 - CRIMINAL INDICTMENT

www.documentcloud.org

This ^^^^ post deserves to be front and center!

As someone who grew up during the 1950’s and 1960’s “Red Scare” when Republicans promoted the idea that communist sympathizers were seeking to sow doubt and undermine our system of government, I find it more than ironic that it is Republicans who have succeeded in doing exactly that. At that time many Democrats/progressives were considered to be “communist dupes,” unwittingly promoting Soviet sympathy against the interests of the United States. Trump mocked the involvement of “Russia, Russia, Russia” in the 2016 election, but make no mistake, by undermining confidence in the electoral system and resisting the peaceful transfer of power, the Republicans have become the “communist dupes” they railed against in the 1950’s and 1960’s. Putin must be proud.

JMO, MOO

 

[JerseyGirl]

Trump attorneys, Fulton County DA expected to meet next week: Sources

Former President Trump's attorneys are expected to meet next week with the Fulton County DA to negotiate the terms of Trump's bond package, sources say.

abcnews.go.com

Attorneys for former President Donald Trump are expected to meet early next week with the Fulton County district attorney's office in order to negotiate terms of the bond package for the former president following this indictment last Monday, sources familiar with the matter told ABC News.

The meeting between Willis and Trump's attorneys is expected to occur prior to any surrender by Trump at the Fulton County Jail.

 

[Cubby]

The former guy accuses others of what he is (for example, racist, traitor,...). Moo.

Non-stop. Every single thing he accuses others of describes himself. People should take note when he starts talking about future happenings. It's a dead giveaway to what he and his team have planned.

 

[Cubby]

Every accusation is a confession.

I love this. It should be on T-shirts with his face!

 

[MyBelle]

Any juror - regardless of their current political opinion - is obligated to sit on that jury and evaluate the evidence and render a verdict in accordance with the evidence. If your family members and/or others cannot as you suggest be impartial, I would expect if they were called for jury duty that they would be honest when questioned and they would not be seated. JMO

I didn't say my family members couldn't be impartial. They live there.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped for focus.

Are you saying that the grand jury (which I know, can indict a ham sandwich) indicted without any actual facts being presented to them?

Yes. I think biased opinions were presented to them.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

When conspiracy theorist Alex Jones marched his way to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, riling up his legion of supporters, an unassuming middle-aged man in a red “Trump 2020” hat conspicuously tagged along.

Videos and photographs reviewed by CNN show the man dutifully recording Jones with his phone as the bombastic media personality ascended to the restricted area of the Capitol grounds where mobs of then-President Donald Trump’s supporters eventually broke in.

While the man’s actions outside the Capitol that day have drawn little scrutiny, his alleged connections to a plot to overthrow the 2020 election have recently come into sharp focus: He is attorney Kenneth Chesebro, the alleged architect of the scheme to subvert the 2020 Electoral College process by using fake GOP electors in multiple states.

When asked by the House select committee where he was the first week of January 2021 and on January 6, Chesebro invoked his Fifth Amendment rights. But a CNN investigation has placed him outside of the Capitol at the same time as his alleged plot to keep Trump in office unraveled inside it.

There is no indication Chesebro entered the Capitol Building or was violent.

It was unclear why Chesebro was following Jones on January 6.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/18/politics/kfile-kenneth-chesebro-followed-alex-jones-capitol-riot-jan-6/index.html

I think he was following Jones because one of the conservative news stations was also walking with Jones. I was watching it because I was flabbergasted at the number of people who showed up. They cut away before Jones got to the Capitol.

JMO

 

[waldojabba]

Yes. I think biased opinions were presented to them.

JMO

IMO IME a grand jury does not base their decisions on people's "biased opinions", they base it on hard evidence - emails, tweets, recorded phone calls - the stuff that is irrefutable. The grand jury is made up of everyday Georgia citizens trying to do what they are tasked to do. They are told to evaluate the evidence.

Alot of what was happening to try and overturn/steal the election occured in plain sight - it was brazen. We have all heard the call with Raffensburger and Trump where Trump tells him -( paraphrasing)" Look, I just need you to "find" 11,000 plus votes - just enough to make my numbers win" - very deliberate, no mistaking his intent - not willing to take no for an answer. The President asked him to "find" more votes after all the votes were counted how many times?
How many people did he call to try and get that done etc.

I really wish we were not in this position as a country. My hope is that the trial is televised and everyone can watch and see for themselves the evidence presented. When the news is filtered through the media that is where you then get the biased opinions from the left and right. We need to all see with our own eyes. NO FOX no CNN etc - disinformation is what got us all here in this situation. The truth needs to matter.

Just as an fyi @mybelleI am also an Independent voter. My voting record to date is 50% Rep/50% Dem.

I look forward to the trial and evaluating the evidence. Sadly for our country it's a very strong indictment. I applaud the state of Georgia for bringing it forward and doing the right thing. Accountability matters. Let it go to court and let a jury decide - its the American way.

ALL JMO

 

[MyBelle]

IMO IME a grand jury does not base their decisions on people's "biased opinions", they base it on hard evidence - emails, tweets, recorded phone calls - the stuff that is irrefutable. The grand jury is made up of everyday Georgia citizens trying to do what they are tasked to do. They are told to evaluate the evidence.

Alot of what was happening to try and overturn/steal the election occured in plain sight - it was brazen. We have all heard the call with Raffensburger and Trump where Trump tells him -( paraphrasing)" Look, I just need you to "find" 11,000 plus votes - just enough to make my numbers win" - very deliberate, no mistaking his intent - not willing to take no for an answer. The President asked him to "find" more votes after all the votes were counted how many times?
How many people did he call to try and get that done etc.

I really wish we were not in this position as a country. My hope is that the trial is televised and everyone can watch and see for themselves the evidence presented. When the news is filtered through the media that is where you then get the biased opinions from the left and right. We need to all see with our own eyes. NO FOX no CNN etc - disinformation is what got us all here in this situation. The truth needs to matter.

Just as an fyi @mybelleI am also an Independent voter. My voting record to date is 50% Rep/50% Dem.

I look forward to the trial and evaluating the evidence. Sadly for our country it's a very strong indictment. I applaud the state of Georgia for bringing it forward and doing the right thing. Accountability matters. Let it go to court and let a jury decide - its the American way.

ALL JMO

BBM. The "stuff" that you claim is "irrefutable" I believe is protected under the First Amendment. In her zeal to politically go after Trump and 19 other Republicans--over a period of nearly 3 years--Willis didn't bother gathering any real evidence other than from a few witnesses who hate Trump. That's dirty politics that I refuse to support.

I didn't vote for Trump, have no intention of voting for him in 2024 but he and the others absolutely have Constitutional rights regardless of their political affiliation.

JMO

 

[waldojabba]

BBM. The "stuff" that you claim is "irrefutable" I believe is protected under the First Amendment. In her zeal to politically go after Trump and 19 other Republicans--over a period of nearly 3 years--Willis didn't bother gathering any real evidence other than from a few witnesses who hate Trump. That's dirty politics that I refuse to support.

I didn't vote for Trump, have no intention of voting for him in 2024 but he and the others absolutely have Constitutional rights regardless of their political affiliation.

JMO

I can see that you are very passionate about this topic. I also have relatives who live in the GA - the beautiful area of the Blue Ridge Mountains and I have been in the state many times. My relatives also believe this is a witch hunt. They do spend a lot of time in front of FOX news though so there is that. C'est la vie IMO - everybody has a right to their opinion and to view whatever

Totally agree about the constitutional Rights - I am not a legal scholar so what is protected and what is not under the first ammendment I will leave to the lawyers to sort out in court.

As far as whether Willis gathered any "real" evidence other than from Trump haters ( mostly Republican btw) - I also say lets see how that plays out in court. But if the evidence is real - its valid no matter who it comes from - IMO.

Once again - Fingers crossed it is televised for the world to see -

Happy to agree to disagree
ALL IMO

ALL IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Continuing the read-along of the Georgia Indictment

Count 1: Violation of Georgia RICO Act
All 19 defendants are charged with this count. There are 161 acts under the count and I'm going through them by taking notes.

Any bolding is my me. Any mistakes are also by me. The original document is linked below.

One more thing - the acts are "furtherance of the conspiracy" but I don't type that for each act over and over, assuming people here understand that.

88. Dec 15, 2020: Stephen Lee (pastor) attempted to commit the felony Influencing Witnesses in Fulton County, Georgia by traveling to the home of Ruby Freeman, election worker, and knocking on her door with intent to influence her testimony in an official proceeding in Fulton County concerning events at State Farm Arena in the presidential election. This was an act of racketeering. (Reminder: this is the second time the pastor went to Ruby's home.)

89. Between Dec 15, 2020 - Jan 4, 2021: Stephen Lee (pastor) solicited Harrison Floyd (leader of Black Voices for Trump) to assist his efforts to speak to Ruby Freeman, election worker. Stephen Lee stated to Harrison Floyd that Rudy Freeman was afraid to talk to Stephen Lee because he was a white man.

90. Dec 18, 2020: Trump met with Rudy, Sidney Powell (Trump campaign lawyer), unindicated co-conspirator #20 and others at the White House. They discussed strategies to influence the outcome of the presidential election, including seizing voting equipment and appointing Sidney Powell as special council with broad authority to investigate allegations of voter fraud in Georgia and elsewhere.

91. Dec 21, 2020: Sidney Powell (Trump campaign lawyer) emailed Chief Operations Officer of SullivanStrickler LLC and instructed him that she and unindicted co-conspirators #6, #21, #22 were immediately to "receive a copy of all data" obtained by SullivanStrickler from Dominion Voting Systems equipment in Michigan.

92. Dec 22, 2020: Mark Meadows (White House Chief of Staff) traveled to Cobb County Civic Center, Georgia, and attempted to observe the signature match audit being performed by Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the Office of the Georgia Secretary of State despite the fact the audit was not open to the public. At the center, Mark Meadows spoke to Georgia Deputy Secretary of State, Office of the Georgia Secretary of State Chief Investigator, Georgia Bureau of Investigation Special Agent in Charge, and others, who prevented Mark Meadows from entering where the audit was being conducted.

93. Dec 23, 2020: Trump called Office of the Georgia Secretary of State Chief Investigator and falsely stated he won the election "by hundreds of thousands of votes" and "when the right answer comes out you'll be praised."

94. Dec 23, 2020: John Eastman (Trump lawyer) emailed Kenneth Chesebro (Trump lawyer) and unindicted co-conspirator #3 with subject "FW: Draft 2, with edits." Eastman attached a memo "PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL -- Dec 23 memo on Jan 6 scenario.doc.x" and stated "As for the hearings, I think both are unnecessary. The fact that we have multiple slates of electors demonstrates the uncertainty of either. That should be enough. And I agree with Ken that Judiciary Committee hearings on the constitutionality of the Electoral Count Act could invite counter views that we do not believe should constrain Pence (or Grassley) in the exercise of power they have under the 12th Amendment. Better for them just to act boldly and be challenged, since the challenge would likely lead to the Court denying review on nonjusticiable political question grounds."
(Notes:
* Regarding Grassley, he famously said before J6, "if the Vice President isn’t there and we don’t expect him to be there, I will be presiding over the Senate." Link below. Here we have Eastman suggesting on Dec 23 that Grassley might preside on J6.
* Regarding what "nonjusticiable political question" means, it is:
"Federal courts will refuse to hear a case if they find that it presents a political question. This doctrine refers to the idea that an issue is so politically charged that federal courts, which are typically viewed as the apolitical branch of government, should not hear the issue." Source for definition below.

I'll pause here so that Christmas Day can have it's own post.

Source for notes: pages 43-44 of Georgia Indictment

23SC188947 - CRIMINAL INDICTMENT

www.documentcloud.org

Article about Grassley Grassley suggests he may preside over Senate debate on Electoral College votes - Iowa Capital Dispatch

Legal definition source

political question doctrine

www.law.cornell.edu