GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 1

[noZme]

This may be disturbing to some; with that warning, read on if you will.


I have thought from the beginning the body was posed in some fashion to add shock value. The explanation of Mrs D having been ruled out so quickly (or at least not suspected) was that the body had been moved a short distance. I do not recall the exact wording, but the sheriff tiptoed around that a couple times. It is the kind of information LE would with-hold for its own purposes. Perhaps, part of the "moved" was lifting, like seated in a car. That would have been a lot more difficult than dragging a few feet for a 148 pound lady.

That's disgusting, but it has been on my mind all along. Sorry to drop such a bomb at midnight, but I am curious if anyone else had considered such.

 

[gngr~snap]

This may be disturbing to some; with that warning, read on if you will.


I have thought from the beginning the body was posed in some fashion to add shock value. The explanation of Mrs D having been ruled out so quickly (or at least not suspected) was that the body had been moved a short distance. I do not recall the exact wording, but the sheriff tiptoed around that a couple times. It is the kind of information LE would with-hold for it's own purposes. Perhaps, part of the "moved" was lifting, like seated in a car. That would have been a lot more difficult than dragging a few feet for a 148 pound lady.

That's disgusting, but it has been on my mind all along. Sorry to drop such a bomb at midnight, but I am curious if anyone else had considered such.

Makes total sense to me and would fully explain why an 87 yr old woman wouldn't have the strength.
Moo

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[LivingJuicy]

Tonight I visited with an 85 year old who is related by marriage. She's sharp as a tack but aging is still aging and our bodies and capabilities do change. Whoever did this is seriously the scum of the earth. Seeing the vulnerability and humbleness in her eyes along with her just overall appreciation of company makes me so sad for this couple. Beyond comprehension.

I waited all day to get here and read and am so glad so many are here. Foxfire, great to see you!

:-(. This is absolutely heartbreaking.

 

[Plumeria5]

My parents live near there and said the guy who does their landscaping was working next door and heard voices inside the Dermond's house late Saturday afternoon, early evening. He reported this to the sheriff.
The houses are not isolated or far apart, the lots are relatively small, though theirs was a little more wooded than most.
There is a guard at the only entrance 24/7. You either have to have a current sticker displayed to be waved through or have a resident call the guard house to get a visitor's pass.

The fact that he heard voices late Saturday afternoon or early evening is disturbing. Wasn't it said their Saturday morning paper was still on the driveway? As meticulous as Mrs. Dermond was I would think one of them made a habit to get the paper fairly early on Saturday. Were they kept in the house and terrorized for some time before the kidnapping and murder?

 

[belimom]

I have studied the two sons that are left; they are very successful by themselves and do not appear to have a motive to do something as horrific as this. Another argument could be made that in their international real estate deals, this was a message to them. Unless one of the sons transfers a large sum of money from his bank to another, this is a unfortunate situation of a disturbed individual who targets the elderly, IMO. Not the first.

bbm

This is what I think.

I did a little snooping too. It appears they were a "nice" family. I saw a grandson's photo of the Dermonds on a family trip to Europe as his tribute to them. Mr D was called "Daddoo." Other comments & photos would indicate they were all in school, working, successful & heartbroken about this tragedy.

(I think this very vague comment is allowed.)

bbm

I agree. I know one of their pastors really well, and this is what the pastor is saying on a personal FB page --- how sweet and nice they are, what wonderful memories they have over the years, etc.

 

[belimom]

It seems to me that two main questions keep popping up -- and we've all taken shots at answering them, usually considering them separately.

(1) Why the decapitation? to easily remove evidence (bullet); to send a message; psychopath's thrill-kill fantasy; organized crime/drug cartel signature ...??? (Others?)

(2) Why leave Mr. Dermond there but remove Mrs. Dermond (living or deceased)? to remove evidence (bullet lodged in chest, for example); for possible ransom/demands; to (try to) get information/access accounts; psychopath's thrill-kill/possibly sexual fantasy; some kind of emotional attachment/hesitation on the part of the killer/s; couple was seized elsewhere (even just outside, on the grounds) and Mrs. Dermond was never brought back to the residence; just took her as "insurance" (hostage) in case killer/s was interrupted while leaving the scene, etc. ...? (Others?)


Would it help if we consider these two questions specifically together?

I have assumed that the head was taken to remove evidence (bullet, fibers, the perp's blood maybe, etc) from the scene. I think also maybe that they were trying to send a message to someone else, or if a professional hit, prove that he was in fact killed.

I just don't want to believe that it was some sicko on a thrill kill. But no matter what, my heart aches for Shirley because she probably saw what happened.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Sorry if I am being overly morbid or gross, but what type of instrument or tool would be needed to effectively decapitate someone?
Also, taking the head (hate typing that) could be to hide evidence, such as touch DNA. Or, so the killer could relive the crime. With Mrs. Dermond still missing, I wonder if she was taken for the perp(s) to enjoy later or she retained DNA that couldn't be removed.
All gruesome thoughts, I know. But this is a very gruesome crime and will only get more so as additional details are discovered. IMO

 

[gngr~snap]

I have assumed that the head was taken to remove evidence (bullet, fibers, the perp's blood maybe, etc) from the scene. I think also maybe that they were trying to send a message to someone else, or if a professional hit, prove that he was in fact killed.

I just don't want to believe that it was some sicko on a thrill kill. But no matter what, my heart aches for Shirley because she probably saw what happened.

I know. Poor woman.
This is the 14th Mother's Day for me without my mom.
My Mother died on May 6 very close to Mother's Day.
From cancer. Funny how what I thought was the worst way for her to die suddenly seems better when compared to something like Mrs. Dermond may have endured.
Wherever you are. Happy Mother's Day! Your family is missing you.
Moo

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[atthelake]

I have assumed that the head was taken to remove evidence (bullet, fibers, the perp's blood maybe, etc) from the scene. I think also maybe that they were trying to send a message to someone else, or if a professional hit, prove that he was in fact killed.

I just don't want to believe that it was some sicko on a thrill kill. But no matter what, my heart aches for Shirley because she probably saw what happened.

Do you or anyone have a reference to a killing that someone was decapitated to remove bullet evidence or such . Not going there myself unless i hear background as don't think that at all
.
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[jaunna]

My thoughts on #2:
If the murderer/s would have killed Mrs. Dermond and left her there with her husband, the family would not have to agonize about where she is and if she is still alive. I think the killer/s wanted to not only horrify everyone with the decapitation but continue to cause mental anguish with the uncertainty of what happened to Mrs. Dermond.

Will her fate be revealed on Mother's Day? That would certainly be sending a message to the family. Was this the plan?

I agree with your conclusion regarding why they left Mr.d in the way they did and why they didn't leave Mrs. D, it's just so horrific and evil.

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[eddie willers]

Everyone is assuming the garage is attached to the house. Could it possibly be a free standing garage?

I waited until I read the whole thread and since I didn't see an answer, I'll give you mine.

As I mentioned earlier, I have been to about four houses in Great Waters and ten or so in the original Reynolds Plantation development. Now I have not been to the Dermond's house, but every single place I have been to has had detached garages.

They are usually 3 car or larger and are set at an angle on the driveway catty-corner to the main house. (Remember, this is a lake front property and no one wants a garage visible from the lake)

Since the garage is detached, there is a normal type door on the side which runs on a [usually covered] sidewalk to the mud room entrance. Guests come through the front door.

Most of these garages are large enough that the guy can set up his hobby next to his cars. Most had woodworking stuff. Meaning..."decapitating" tools could very well be right there in the garage. No need to necessarily bring them with you.

My guess is that the poor man was taken in, or just in front, of his garage and the slight movement was to hide him behind the parked cars. Since there is (more than likely) a side door, no reason to have to run under a lowering garage door to get back out.

To touch on a few things I read on the thread along the way:

This is a long, relatively thin, finger shaped peninsula sticking quite a ways into the lake. The subdivision takes up ALL of the land. The only vehicle-capable way onto the peninsula is pass the guard station. No way there are campers anywhere near there.

No way there are drifters.
No way there are gangs.
No way there are meth heads.

As unreal as it may seem, these scenarios are the least likely to have happened in this puzzling case.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

I can't help but think that whoever did this, was known to the Dermonds - which is why there's no sign of forced entry.....because the (or one the perps) perp came to their door and being such sweet kind people, they wouldn't have hesitated to let them in (or let the one they knew in and the others were waiting in the wings).

Wondering too..........who were the thugs responsible for the previous identity theft and subsequent charges on the Dermonds' credit cards? Just some random or someone who knew the Dermonds and their financial position (wealth) and were only just getting started when they got caught? And it seems odd to me to call it a case of "identity theft" if someone somehow manages to get your CC #. I've had my CC # hacked and charges made....and I wouldn't have considered that "identity theft". So what lengths did the perp who did this to them in the past go to? What ever happened to that perp? - and could what have happened here lately been some sort of retaliation or revenge?

I don't think this was all a case of robbery/burglary..........but then again, if LE or family doesn't know what valuables they had in their home (jewelry, cash money hidden somewhere) then maybe it would not be so easy to say either way?

If the Dermonds didn't use debit cards, maybe they were like lots of seniors who prefer to mainly deal in cash and as such kept a good amount of cash in the home to have easy access to for day to day expenses? Maybe someone knew this?

Curious too, did any local realtor ever approach them about selling their home (maybe had a buyer from out of the area who was interested) and they of course weren't open to it.....and someone really wanted that home so went to the extreme of getting rid of them so that that would open up the eventual possibility? (a home in which someone was decapitated isn't exactly going to be a home that any local is going to want to buy).

So new reports mentioned here state that neighbors had heard talking/voices from the Dermonds' home either late Sat afternoon or early Sat evening. Would it be usual given the proximity of the homes for them to hear voices like this or not and that would indicate that voices were raised?

It's been reported that neighbors entered the home on Tuesday and upon search of the home and then garage, that's when they found Mr Dermonds........so does this mean the front door wasn't locked?
What caused these particular neighbors to be concerned about them such that they went to check on them?
What made them go inside to look as opposed to just ringing doorbell and if no answer just assuming they weren't home? Does that mean their vehicles were NOT in the garage but were somewhere in the driveway and that's what concerned neighbors...their vehicles where there but not answering the door?

Did these neighbors have a key to the Dermonds' home?....previously given to them by the Dermonds' for some reason? (to check on home or water plants/turn on house lights if Dermonds' gone away for a few days?). If they had a key, who else might have had access to that key?.........or known they had their key?

 

[Backwoods]

I waited until I read the whole thread and since I didn't see an answer, I'll give you mine.

As I mentioned earlier, I have been to about four houses in Great Waters and ten or so in the original Reynolds Plantation development. Now I have not been to the Dermond's house, but every single place I have been to has had detached garages.

They are usually 3 car or larger and are set at an angle on the driveway catty-corner to the main house. (Remember, this is a lake front property and no one wants a garage visible from the lake)

Since the garage is detached, there is a normal type door on the side which runs on a [usually covered] sidewalk to the mud room entrance. Guests come through the front door.

Most of these garages are large enough that the guy can set up his hobby next to his cars. Most had woodworking stuff. Meaning..."decapitating" tools could very well be right there in the garage. No need to necessarily bring them with you.

My guess is that the poor man was taken in, or just in front, of his garage and the slight movement was to hide him behind the parked cars. Since there is (more than likely) a side door, no reason to have to run under a lowering garage door to get back out.

To touch on a few things I read on the thread along the way:

This is a long, relatively thin, finger shaped peninsula sticking quite a ways into the lake. The subdivision takes up ALL of the land. The only vehicle-capable way onto the peninsula is pass the guard station. No way there are campers anywhere near there.

No way there are drifters.
No way there are gangs.
No way there are meth heads.

As unreal as it may seem, these scenarios are the least likely to have happened in this puzzling case.

I have had to pop in and out of WS all day/evening. I've been thinking I (or someone!) should take a look back at the photos/aerial video, etc. of the house -- I didn't view all the visuals as they came out -- to see if we could see the likely garage location. Your description of the "typical" garage there should help, I'd think.

 

[jaunna]

I wonder if it could be that MD did indeed die but that at some point thereafter someone appropriated his identity or aspects of it. Then maybe someone from his past BOUGHT that it was really him, and came looking...?

Seems to me that the deceased son of a wealthy family might make an enticing target for an identity thief.

This is an interesting angle. And a really unlucky choice of someone to assume an identity from, for all parties.

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[KJ's Mamu]

I can't stop thinking about Mr. & Mrs. Dermond. It makes me heartsick to think of the horrors they endured.

The fact that one or more persons were able to kill Mr. Dermond and kidnap Mrs. Dermond without being seen or without seeming out of place makes it seem unlikely to me that this was a random crime committed by some crazy person. Perhaps an organized psychopath? It seems well planned...perhaps perpetrated by someone they knew? The theories within this thread on how it was done all seem plausible and some even probable. However, I find myself thinking more about why it was done rather than how it was done.

I have some questions to throw out....warning - they are gruesome...

Could Mrs. Dermond be the "primary target"? Forced to watch her husband beaten, killed and beheaded? Then forced to carry his head or at least go with his head to a different location and forced to view it for an extended period? If so, what would be the purpose of these actions? Punishment? For what? By all published accounts she was a sweet woman - loved by all that knew her.

Once I started down this path, the first theory that popped in my head was wondering if she could have given birth to and given up a baby before marrying Mr. Dermond? Could that person or perhaps an adult child of that person be the perpetrator of this crime?

Farfetched? Unlikely? Yes...but I can't quite get myself to let go of it either...

 

[Backwoods]

Did you notice who took the picture in the
article? the guard house on the right?
Good thing it wasn't Friday the 13th
and they don't live on Camp Crystal Lake!

Sorry, I had to chuckle a little.

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g-snap: I just had to reply! I've seen that photographer's name many times in credits and I never realized...!! Did not know that Voorhees was the surname from the Friday the 13th series!! Poor guy -- bet he gets lots of cracks about that.

 

[JLSChook]

Aside from the Mexican Cartel, the Mafia, Scuba-Diving Ninjas and such....Has anyone considered that the perp could have done this FOR Shirley? It's probably a long shot, but I have seen, heard and read much crazier things in my life and nothing would surprise me anymore.

Where is she?

 

[Plumeria5]

I have had to pop in and out of WS all day/evening. I've been thinking I (or someone!) should take a look back at the photos/aerial video, etc. of the house -- I didn't view all the visuals as they came out -- to see if we could see the likely garage location. Your description of the "typical" garage there should help, I'd think.

Great minds think alike...ha! I just came back from trying Google Earth but I think there are too many trees to tell.

 

[mrsobrien]

You mean at her request? Or to to take possession of her? Act of warped "love"?

Aside from the Mexican Cartel, the Mafia, Scuba-Diving Ninjas and such....Has anyone considered that the perp could have done this FOR Shirley? It's probably a long shot, but I have seen, heard and read much crazier things in my life and nothing would surprise me anymore.

Where is she?

 

[Backwoods]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - GA GA - Shirley Dermond (Abduction), 87, Putnam County, 2 - 4 May 2014

Yes, as per press conference, cadaver dogs were brought in.

I'm assuming they had to have made some "hits" -- in the garage. Really wonder if anything else was learned from having them come in!