GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #10

[Bootsctr]

'I've always lived by the philosophy of study long, study wrong, dancinunderthemoon'.. I feel that there is a specific reason for Keith Dermond's statement and theory.' I also feel that the strange phone calls that he received soon after the murders may also be significant, and may shed light on why he came to this conclusion.. Wished Sheriff Sills would be asked by reporters, what the specifics of these phone calls were, and the interpretation or meaning of Keith Dermond's statement..

I wish a reporter would have asked Keith Dermond that question when he was interviewed later. Is he the son that lives in Florida? If he was receiving strange phone calls, his phone should have been tapped... if it was a landline. Otherwise, he should have handed his cell phone over to try to extract any data from that phone call.

 

[Foxfire]

I wish a reporter would have asked Keith Dermond that question when he was interviewed later. Is he the son that lives in Florida? If he was receiving strange phone calls, his phone should have been tapped... if it was a landline. Otherwise, he should have handed his cell phone over to try to extract any data from that phone call.

<BBM for Focus>

Yes, Jacksonville, FL. I agree that follow up questions should have been asked and phone forensics completed by investigators. Maybe they were, but just not revealed. It just seems strange that anyone would have been contacting the sibling of a murder victim days after the heinous crime. Mrs Dermond had not been located when the phone interview of Keith Dermond was conducted by WSB TV 2’s Richard Elliot.
____

http://m.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/son-putnam-victims-blames-cult-moms-disappearance/nfyJ2/
Keith Dermond doesn’t believe someone specifically targeted his parents for this brutal crime. He believes it’s random, maybe the work of a cult.

“It’s bad enough what happened to dad, but mom missing is like this, the thought of her suffering is too much to bear,” Keith Dermond said.

Chief Still still believes the killer specifically targeted the Dermonds because of the relative inaccessibility of their house and the fact there were no signs of struggle.

"You have two elderly people. There is no sign of struggle.There is no sign of forced entry. That would lead one to believe the door was opened,” said Stills.

 

[jonnyrock]

I totally agree ("these guys must be from 'round here") -- the murderers had very intimate knowledge of the lake and its surroundings. One or more had experience with power boats. And one or more may have been acquainted with either of the Dermonds. What keeps coming back to me is how the murder of Russell Dermond seems staged for shock value and effect, but to what end? The other interesting aspect of these murders was the emergence of the body of Shirley Dermond, revealing the only mistake the murderers made. If all had gone as planned (Shirley's body never found), that would have had a huge impact in a probate sense: the State would have to allow sufficient time to pass before Shirley could be declared legally dead. I believe that would have indefinitely delayed any distribution of jointly held estate assets, likely all marital property in this case.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I've been following this case since the weekend it happened through online news and came across this site about a year ago. This forum is great and I see lots of information which I hope leads to the arrest of the murder or murderers. This is just my opinion but I really think this is someone in the family whether immediate family or extended family. Sorry this might be long but I just want to explain why I have come to this conclusion.

1. Sills said during a press conference once that he interviewed many people and will only reinterview those who weren't totally truthful with him. I realize it might be procedure to interview the family multiple times but I think he threw us a clue on that.

2 Sills once said he had discovered a recording device that was given to the FBI to evaluate. No mention what type of recording device or the results. http://www.cbs46.com/story/25580297...ecovered-in-lake-oconee-double-murder-mystery

3 The Dermond family has not said anything outside of the initial statement. For a family who's parents were brutally murdered you would think they'd be pressing the police for answers. The only Dermond family member who has made a statement is the son Keith. I can see the family being patient for awhile but after a year and no leads I think I would start pressuring the police to find them some answers.

4 and this is a big reason I believe it's a relative of some sort and not a random killing. Money- Yes I know there wasn't any money taken and nothing of value taken from the home but that doesn't mean money wasn't the reason. Maybe they rejected a family members loan request, financial help or something like that. Bottom line is as tight as a family can be there's always 1 family member who is considered unstable or a failure. Sills said once he has DNA, finger prints and fibers and I think the DNA he has is the type that might be a partial match (family) but can be contested because of the face that it's family and they can always say they have visited the dermonds at their home.

I'm probably wrong and I hope I am and I just want closure of this case and justice for Russell and Shirley. Nobody should be killed especially in the way they were killed.

 

[DAMIFINO]

" that doesn't mean money wasn't the reason. Maybe they rejected a family members loan request, financial help or something like that."
Very interesting points, hockeyguy!
So you are saying that the killer not only murdered the Dermonds for revenge, he also or mainly was trying to tie up the estate so that nobody could get anything. Except, Mrs. D's body surfaced, the proof that they were both deceased and the estate could be settled. Bet the killer was really ticked, then.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

If the killer is not immediate family I don't think he could tie up the estate. Money and family squabbles often lead to murder I just think it should be looked into more. I think Sills is holding back some big clues. Dumping the body in the river could mean many things but cutting someones head off usually means it's personal. I think someone had a problem with Mr Dermond who probably manages the finances in his household and rage took over and they beheaded him, now Mrs Dermond wasn't beheaded which tells me she was just killed for being there. This is still a bad economy and some investments have broken people and or their business was lost to the economy. I think this is all about the money, not that they were after their money but payback for maybe not financing or bailing someone out of financial disaster. I still think it's someone related or close to the Dermonds. It's just to personal not to be.

 

[wildebeest]

I've been following this case since the weekend it happened through online news and came across this site about a year ago. This forum is great and I see lots of information which I hope leads to the arrest of the murder or murderers. This is just my opinion but I really think this is someone in the family whether immediate family or extended family. Sorry this might be long but I just want to explain why I have come to this conclusion.

1. Sills said during a press conference once that he interviewed many people and will only reinterview those who weren't totally truthful with him. I realize it might be procedure to interview the family multiple times but I think he threw us a clue on that.

2 Sills once said he had discovered a recording device that was given to the FBI to evaluate. No mention what type of recording device or the results. http://www.cbs46.com/story/25580297...ecovered-in-lake-oconee-double-murder-mystery

3 The Dermond family has not said anything outside of the initial statement. For a family who's parents were brutally murdered you would think they'd be pressing the police for answers. The only Dermond family member who has made a statement is the son Keith. I can see the family being patient for awhile but after a year and no leads I think I would start pressuring the police to find them some answers.

4 and this is a big reason I believe it's a relative of some sort and not a random killing. Money- Yes I know there wasn't any money taken and nothing of value taken from the home but that doesn't mean money wasn't the reason. Maybe they rejected a family members loan request, financial help or something like that. Bottom line is as tight as a family can be there's always 1 family member who is considered unstable or a failure. Sills said once he has DNA, finger prints and fibers and I think the DNA he has is the type that might be a partial match (family) but can be contested because of the face that it's family and they can always say they have visited the dermonds at their home.

I'm probably wrong and I hope I am and I just want closure of this case and justice for Russell and Shirley. Nobody should be killed especially in the way they were killed.

Well said, hockeyguy33!!! This has been my suspicion from day one. It was a contract killing by someone who had something to gain, monetarily. Mr. and Mrs. Dermond were quite elderly, but very active, and reasonably healthy, considering their age. I have the feeling they left a sizable estate. Someone needed or wanted the money, now! :twocents:

IMHO

 

[DAMIFINO]

If the killer is not immediate family I don't think he could tie up the estate. Money and family squabbles often lead to murder I just think it should be looked into more. I think Sills is holding back some big clues. Dumping the body in the river could mean many things but cutting someones head off usually means it's personal. I think someone had a problem with Mr Dermond who probably manages the finances in his household and rage took over and they beheaded him, now Mrs Dermond wasn't beheaded which tells me she was just killed for being there. This is still a bad economy and some investments have broken people and or their business was lost to the economy. I think this is all about the money, not that they were after their money but payback for maybe not financing or bailing someone out of financial disaster. I still think it's someone related or close to the Dermonds. It's just to personal not to be.

Sorry for not being clear..I was thinking that if someone had an issue (big understatement) with a Dermond family member or even someone to whom that family member owed money, and they wanted to keep them from getting the inheritance, the thing to do would be to hide the body so that the estate could not be settled. If Mrs. D's body had not been found, where would they be now settling and dispersing the estate? Lots of legal questions there which I think have been discussed way up line. So, killing and staging Mr. D sends a message from the killer "don't mess with me" and killing and hiding Mrs. D's body, which they thought would not be found, would have kept the family in limbo emotionally as well as not being able to settle the estate and distribute the assets.

 

[Foxfire]

Sorry for not being clear..I was thinking that if someone had an issue (big understatement) with a Dermond family member or even someone to whom that family member owed money, and they wanted to keep them from getting the inheritance, the thing to do would be to hide the body so that the estate could not be settled. If Mrs. D's body had not been found, where would they be now settling and dispersing the estate? Lots of legal questions there which I think have been discussed way up line. So, killing and staging Mr. D sends a message from the killer "don't mess with me" and killing and hiding Mrs. D's body, which they thought would not be found, would have kept the family in limbo emotionally as well as not being able to settle the estate and distribute the assets.

<BBM for Focus>

The abduction of elderly Mrs Dermond, and killing, dismembering, and staging of WWII Veteran Mr. Dermond's torso, in a normally safe and secure gated community such as Reynolds Plantation/GW would also set the case apart from other murders. This would also insure high profile crime status and local, state, and national ms media coverage..

 

[Deleted member 162919]

The silence from the family shocks me and makes me suspect them even more. If my parents were murdered like this or in any way and the police had no suspects after a year I would be talking to the media every chance I could, I would hire a private investigator ( I assume they can afford one) I would hire an attorney to press the police to do more or contact the GBI to take over the case. None of these has happened and I ask myself why. Sills says he has fibers and dna ? I am thinking if he has dna from one of the killers this isn't their 1st crime. I find it weird that during his interviews ( very few ) he doesn't stay still almost like he wants to blurt something out. He rocks in his chair , constantly fidgeting with his hands, tapping his pen all odd signs for a professional cop. I always return to the part where they had a cold case team examine evidence in the case. Well cold case teams usually don't look at cases under 5 years old but they did at around the 1 year mark. Another concern is the cold case team was from florida. Why Florida ? This is where 2 of the Dermond sons live. Was this to involve Florida in the investigation and show them the evidence they have and have them keep an eye on the sons? Maybe to see if the sons have any contact with the killer or killers ? There are cold case teams all over the country I just find it odd they chose one from Florida the home state of the 2 Dermond sons. Sorry I ramble on with theories i'm just trying to make sense of all this.

 

[Sonya610]

Well said, hockeyguy33!!! This has been my suspicion from day one. It was a contract killing by someone who had something to gain, monetarily. Mr. and Mrs. Dermond were quite elderly, but very active, and reasonably healthy, considering their age. I have the feeling they left a sizable estate. Someone needed or wanted the money, now! :twocents:

IMHO

A contract killing that involves disposing of bodies in a lake? And severing heads?

JMO but that would cost extra. A lot extra. Chopping and carting involves a whole lot more risk.

 

[charminglane]

Great thoughts, Mr. Hockey.

 

[Steleheart]

Sorry for not being clear..I was thinking that if someone had an issue (big understatement) with a Dermond family member or even someone to whom that family member owed money, and they wanted to keep them from getting the inheritance, the thing to do would be to hide the body so that the estate could not be settled. If Mrs. D's body had not been found, where would they be now settling and dispersing the estate? Lots of legal questions there which I think have been discussed way up line. So, killing and staging Mr. D sends a message from the killer "don't mess with me" and killing and hiding Mrs. D's body, which they thought would not be found, would have kept the family in limbo emotionally as well as not being able to settle the estate and distribute the assets.

BBM; Thank you. "to keep them from getting the inheritance". "the estate could not be settled".

I don't know what's so hard about that concept. This was a very personal, very angry and very focused murder involving Mr. Dermond specifically, but not necessarily primarily.

Not only did the killer(s) stage the body in the garage between his car and hers, (His body was dragged a couple feet to place it there), (they) took his head and in so doing took his face, person, memory, mind, etc., from whomever was the target.

Mrs. Dermond was not the target and so was disposed of in a manner that seems to indicate that she was not meant to be found.

By not being found their estate would be tied up and the heir(s) would not collect without a lot of years of legal struggle, during which the heir(s) of target would suffer greatly. They would not just grieve the financial, and legal loss, but also the memory of how Russell looked. Or didn't look.

The entirety of the crime scene, the lack of robbery, lack of motive, the cleanliness, neatness, silence, and lack of blood, mess and carnage keeps the entire focus on Russell and Russell alone. Not the floor, not the walls not the struggle, not the cars, nothing. Just Russell. With no head.

The disappearance of Shirley means that she was not the focus. She was gone - not there. Having been sunk and weighed down points to a plan to use her disappearance to tie up the estate. Tying up the estate seems as if there was no other way, or no better way to hurt someone close to Russell. Very close to Russell.

It feels as if it were against someone who would have gained financially, though deeply hurt, by a simple murder, but also who would be more hurt and then NOT gain by a tied up estate. And then additionally, HORIFIED by the lack of a last look at their Dad.

This was a grudge murder, well planned and cleanly executed. and IMO the family knows a lot more than is being disclosed by LE.

Perhaps the deranged killer(s) thought "the apple does not fall far from the tree".

MOO

 

[DAMIFINO]

Thanks, Steleheart. Well put.

 

[1&2&3]

Glad to read others thoughts who also believe it was a family member that committed these horrible murders.

It was Russell, the decision maker, they were after. He held the keys to the vault, so to say, and Shirley was just a witness who had to be eliminated.

This has been my belief since early on in this mysterious murder. The family was too quite from the beginning IMO. As time has passed, the lack of involvement from the
adult children has raised my suspicions even more that a family member is responsible.

 

[Tulessa]

The silence from the family shocks me and makes me suspect them even more. If my parents were murdered like this or in any way and the police had no suspects after a year I would be talking to the media every chance I could, I would hire a private investigator ( I assume they can afford one) I would hire an attorney to press the police to do more or contact the GBI to take over the case. None of these has happened and I ask myself why. Sills says he has fibers and dna ? I am thinking if he has dna from one of the killers this isn't their 1st crime. I find it weird that during his interviews ( very few ) he doesn't stay still almost like he wants to blurt something out. He rocks in his chair , constantly fidgeting with his hands, tapping his pen all odd signs for a professional cop. I always return to the part where they had a cold case team examine evidence in the case. Well cold case teams usually don't look at cases under 5 years old but they did at around the 1 year mark. Another concern is the cold case team was from florida. Why Florida ? This is where 2 of the Dermond sons live. Was this to involve Florida in the investigation and show them the evidence they have and have them keep an eye on the sons? Maybe to see if the sons have any contact with the killer or killers ? There are cold case teams all over the country I just find it odd they chose one from Florida the home state of the 2 Dermond sons. Sorry I ramble on with theories i'm just trying to make sense of all this.

I'm not shocked by the family's being quiet at all. We were told to say NOTHING to ANYONE when my brother and his wife were murdered. That was four years of silence for us. The defense attorneys wanted to come to our homes to talk with us. Nope, that didn't happen.

ETA , I've not formed an opinion one way or the other.

 

[jonnyrock]

I have often wondered if the one Dermond family member who intrigues me -- the deceased son -- could have fathered a child shortly before his death.The child could have been born after the death of the deceased Dermond son. Could it be possible that those who raised this child attempted to procure financial support from the elder Dermonds? Might there have been some initial financial support but subsequent attempts rebuffed? Perhaps all attempts to garner financial support on behalf of the child met with the utmost resistance. Just a thought yet I'm somewhat skeptical. I would think the elder Dermonds would have revealed this to their children.

 

[Foxfire]

The silence from the family shocks me and makes me suspect them even more. If my parents were murdered like this or in any way and the police had no suspects after a year I would be talking to the media every chance I could, I would hire a private investigator ( I assume they can afford one) I would hire an attorney to press the police to do more or contact the GBI to take over the case. None of these has happened and I ask myself why. Sills says he has fibers and dna ? I am thinking if he has dna from one of the killers this isn't their 1st crime. I find it weird that during his interviews ( very few ) he doesn't stay still almost like he wants to blurt something out. He rocks in his chair , constantly fidgeting with his hands, tapping his pen all odd signs for a professional cop. I always return to the part where they had a cold case team examine evidence in the case. Well cold case teams usually don't look at cases under 5 years old but they did at around the 1 year mark. Another concern is the cold case team was from florida. Why Florida ? This is where 2 of the Dermond sons live. Was this to involve Florida in the investigation and show them the evidence they have and have them keep an eye on the sons? Maybe to see if the sons have any contact with the killer or killers ? There are cold case teams all over the country I just find it odd they chose one from Florida the home state of the 2 Dermond sons. Sorry I ramble on with theories i'm just trying to make sense of all this.

Hockeyguy33, I realize that we are on thread #10, but if you will do a little searching, there are plausible explanations for virtually all of your questions. The family can't request that the GBI take over the case. Only Sheriff Sills or GA Governor Deal can request their assistance. I suspect that the family has been advised to keep a low profile for their safety due to the heinous nature of the crime, lack of suspect/s, or motive, etc..
RE: Cold Case; 'Sheriff Sills stated that he doesn't have cold cases, only continuing investigations'...

 

[DAMIFINO]

I suspect that the family has been advised to keep a low profile for their safety due to the heinous nature of the crime, lack of suspect/s, or motive, etc..
RE: Cold Case; 'Sheriff Sills stated that he doesn't have cold cases, only continuing investigations'...

We don't know what the family is doing. They could have hired Perry Mason for all we know. It would be in their best interest and in the best interest of the case to be very discreet.

 

[1&2&3]

I'm not shocked by the family's being quiet at all. We were told to say NOTHING to ANYONE when my brother and his wife were murdered. That was four years of silence for us.

Snipped by me.

Tulessa, thank you for that fact that you "were told to say nothing to anyone". Those four years had to be horrendous! Did you feel that LE was working on the case during those years? Or did you think the case had gone cold? Any thoughts you can share with us on what a family does in this waiting time, might help us understand how these adult children deal/handle the unknown. TIA. Would your family have been allowed to hire a PI if they had wanted? Just curious.