GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #10

[dancinunderthemoon]

My grandfather kept antique coins in a suitcase in his shed, worth THOUSANDS, many thousand............just a thought, he was in his late 70's probably the age of the D's today, his grandson stole them.............however there was no murder

 

[christine daae]

Were the D's in some witness protection or have old feuds/enemies?

The killings were brutal and very personal, i can't imagine it's over a "money stash"-like scenario. Likely a professional from the details that have been released so far, but there could be lots of mistakes hidden from us

 

[Montjoy]

Were the D's in some witness protection or have old feuds/enemies?

rsbm

Definitely not in witness protection.

As for having old feuds/enemies -- I wouldn't doubt it, but for sure local LEOs and the FBI would know about these by now.

And I don't know that it has to be a professional, seeing as there was evidence left; unfortunately, it would seem that the evidence does not suggest anyone on file.

 

[wildebeest]

Were the D's in some witness protection or have old feuds/enemies?

The killings were brutal and very personal, i can't imagine it's over a "money stash"-like scenario. Likely a professional from the details that have been released so far, but there could be lots of mistakes hidden from us

Love your user name! :takeabow:

The only thing that comes to mind is the murder of their grown son, years ago.

 

[Sonya610]

I have a feeling he has a suspect in mind but he needs for that suspect to make another mistake to solidify the conviction. Sills not giving much info has to mean he's stalking his suspect and waiting for him to slip. Giving very little info but careful to leak he has dna, fibers etc then saying nothing for a year seems like he's playing poker with the suspect.

Yeah it does sound like a threat/bluff.

If they really had a suspect (vs a person of interest) couldn't he get a court order for a DNA sample?

Now if the DNA is a bluff or may not be from the killer then I can see why they wouldn't want to do that. If they demanded a DNA sample and it didn't match (even though the suspect IS the killer) that would create big problems.

 

[Sonya610]

Dont' understand how the cinder block news by SS to the public would lead him to the suspects if someone reported cinder blocks missing...

Small thing but when I want a couple of cinder blocks I just grab a couple of discarded ones at the local recycling center/trash center when I drop off my trash.

I would think the killers could easily do that too (in fact they could go to the one I use, it is that close).

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm not sure of just why/how the FBI became involved, though there may well be some explanations in the early MSM links that I have just forgotten...but I bet one reason may have been that it appeared, at first, that Shirley might have been abducted and was being held hostage. If I remember correctly, there were billboards put up with the Dermonds' picture...? That sounds to me that there was at least a glimmer of hope that she was still alive and might be sighted.

My thoughts too on why the FBI was brought in. I think possibly they were thinking there may have been a ransom request; though, I'm sure the family would have been contacted quite soon if Mrs. D had been kidnapped. I think of the billboards that went up with Shirley's picture. I think the person who did this had some knowledge that not finding Shirley with Russell would hamper the investigation. They didn't count on her being found either. So a few smarts, but not as smart as they thought they were... like all criminals.

 

[Bootsctr]

Geez Sonya! That gives me cold chills! I was thinking there might be a receipt somewhere floating around somewhere with cinderblocks, rope, duct tape, etc. But, I agree, cinderblocks are something common that you can get for free.

Thinking of Mark Twitchell - the Canadian guy who murdered Johnny Altinger using Dexter as a role model. He had purchased knives and saws that are used in processing game, such as deer.

"Jurors were then bombarded with disturbing police photos detailing the alleged slaying of Altinger.

The pictures – shown on a large screen in the darkened Edmonton courtroom – included images of a hunters game processing kit, which city police Const. Nancy Allen described to the jury as a 12-piece “butchering set.”

Among the tools in the kit was a butcher knife, a skinner knife, a boning/fillet knife, shears, a saw, a carving fork and rib spreaders.

Allen testified the only item that didn’t have suspected blood on it was the rib spreaders."

http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=2939.15

Opposite of Russell's murder. IIRC, not much blood splatter in the garage, if any.

 

[Bootsctr]

I never knew "butchering sets" were sold as a kit...

Then, again, I am not a hunter, nor do I have any desire to butcher anything or anyone dead or alive.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Love your user name! :takeabow:

The only thing that comes to mind is the murder of their grown son, years ago.

Its still interesting that it finally came out recently that the son was also arrested in NY or NJ on drug charges, where the D's lived prior to GA, SS said this crime didnt' pertain to that situation but never knew the son was also arrested there before the D's came to GA, the only one we ever heard about was near SS or in atl, whichever it was........still wonder why they left NJ/NY to come to GA, so that was after the sons arrest.....then after sons murder moved from Sandy Springs to Oconee, I think it was some time passed but purchased it soon after his death. Reaching.....

 

[Sonya610]

I never knew "butchering sets" were sold as a kit...

I didn't know that either but it makes sense! A handy kit with all of the tools in one case. Bet it even comes with instructions that would work well for deer or others.

Regarding the cinder blocks, if they were checking home improvement stores the blocks were probably new. Used blocks often have cement on them which would be even better for weighting down a body.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I am thinking the same thing. This brutal murder was personal and not the work of a cult as some believe. Robbery is doubtful since nothing of value was missing, the house was very clean except for a lampshade slightly off. People in their late 80's don't get murdered randomly and being in their mid to late 80s i'm betting they knew their killer very well. To murder someone in the gruesome way they were murdered says it was personal. Elderly people get robbed, mugged, carjacked, and assaulted but rarely beheaded and kidnapped. There were no signs of a break in and no signs of a real struggle which suggests either a family member or a close friend. I'd be looking at the family and friends and even the pastor of their church. Yes I said pastor should be looked at. I think SS really needs to call in some outside help and fast. Here's another question. Has Sills been watching the family financial statements and phone records since the murders? He had a cold case team from Florida review the case and I believe there was a reason he chose Florida. Just happens to be in the same area of one of the sons. Hmmm

Were the D's in some witness protection or have old feuds/enemies?

The killings were brutal and very personal, i can't imagine it's over a "money stash"-like scenario. Likely a professional from the details that have been released so far, but there could be lots of mistakes hidden from us

 

[wildebeest]

I am thinking the same thing. This brutal murder was personal and not the work of a cult as some believe. Robbery is doubtful since nothing of value was missing, the house was very clean except for a lampshade slightly off. People in their late 80's don't get murdered randomly and being in their mid to late 80s i'm betting they knew their killer very well. To murder someone in the gruesome way they were murdered says it was personal. Elderly people get robbed, mugged, carjacked, and assaulted but rarely beheaded and kidnapped. There were no signs of a break in and no signs of a real struggle which suggests either a family member or a close friend. I'd be looking at the family and friends and even the pastor of their church. Yes I said pastor should be looked at. I think SS really needs to call in some outside help and fast. Here's another question. Has Sills been watching the family financial statements and phone records since the murders? He had a cold case team from Florida review the case and I believe there was a reason he chose Florida. Just happens to be in the same area of one of the sons. Hmmm

:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

Yes, I think SS has an idea, but the hard part is to be patient and wait it out. Someone will slip up (hopefully):waiting::waiting::waiting:

 

[Foxfire]

Originally posted by hockeyguy33
I am thinking the same thing. This brutal murder was personal and not the work of a cult as some believe. Robbery is doubtful since nothing of value was missing, the house was very clean except for a lampshade slightly off. People in their late 80's don't get murdered randomly and being in their mid to late 80s i'm betting they knew their killer very well. To murder someone in the gruesome way they were murdered says it was personal. Elderly people get robbed, mugged, carjacked, and assaulted but rarely beheaded and kidnapped. There were no signs of a break in and no signs of a real struggle which suggests either a family member or a close friend. I'd be looking at the family and friends and even the pastor of their church. Yes I said pastor should be looked at. I think SS really needs to call in some outside help and fast. Here's another question. Has Sills been watching the family financial statements and phone records since the murders? He had a cold case team from Florida review the case and I believe there was a reason he chose Florida. Just happens to be in the same area of one of the sons. Hmmm

<BBM for Focus>
Imo, the way the Dermonds were murdered, specifically Mr Dermond, was to simply send a message..
No signs of a break in may indicate a ruse to gain entry, and likely a person of authority such as a security guard or LEO, etc.
The explanation given by Sheriff Sills for utilizing the cold case team from FL was that the Chief of Police and one of the cold case investigators attended training together at the FBI BAU @Quantico, VA. Sheriff Sills has held his position for two decades. Imo, there has only been one high profile investigation where the FBI's assistance was requested by SS, up until the Dermond murders. The GBI's help was also excluded by Sheriff Sills in the previous investigation.. Not a coincidence, imo..
Imo, the Dermond family members had no involvement in these horrific murders..

Interesting reading back through the many Dermond murders msm articles over the past twenty one months..
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?243911-GA-Shirley-and-Russell-Dermond-Putnam-County
____________

http://patch.com/georgia/barrow/cold-case-team-studies-murders-russell-and-shirley-dermond
&#8220;It just eats at you that somebody could do this and possibly get away with it,&#8221; says the slain couple&#8217;s son.
We don&#8217;t even know the motive at this point,&#8221; the couple&#8217;s son, Keith Dermond, told WSB TV. &#8220;It&#8217;s very hard to catch somebody when you don&#8217;t even know their motive, and you don&#8217;t know whether they would do it again.&#8221;

The attackers didn&#8217;t use force to enter the couple&#8217;s lakeside home. Investigators said Shirley Dermond&#8217;s wallet, cellphone, purse and car were all left behind.
____________________

Sills would not discuss specifics of what investigators have learned as they have combed the Dermonds&#8217; financial records and background to sniff out potential motives.

But, he added, &#8220;it&#8217;s nothing random&#8221; as best he can tell for now.

Asked what kind of person or people may be responsible for the killings, Sills said, &#8220;I would say it was a particularly brutal savage that did this. Whether he did it as a result of self-preservation or he did it as a result of just pure meanness, it takes a certain level of depravity to throw an 87-year-old woman in the lake and cut off the head of an 88-year-old man.&#8221;

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/05/22/3111...#storylink=cpy

 

[DAMIFINO]

I never knew "butchering sets" were sold as a kit...

Then, again, I am not a hunter, nor do I have any desire to butcher anything or anyone dead or alive.

View attachment 87798

The butchering sets make very nice Christmas gifts for hunters, especially the ones that come in the case. You can get them at Bass Pro Shops, etc for around $60.00. However, I can't picture the perp bringing a dressing kit. He would have used one knife like the third one in the picture, popping the neck bones apart by inserting the tip and twisting. Then he would have wiped the knife off and put it back in the sheath in his belt. What did he wipe the knife off on? A rag or Mr. D's clothing?

 

[Foxfire]

'A backwards walk in time'.. One thing that has always stuck in my crawl is the way Sheriff Sills described the precise nature of the cut performed when decapitating Mr Dermond.. It was almost described as if it was caped..

<BBM for Focus>
<snipped from link> Kristen D Swilley, WMAZ 11:36 a.m. EDT May 9, 2015
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/crime/2015/04/29/dermond-murders-update/26503553/

One popular theory the sheriff doesn't believe? That organized crime was involved.

"They usually just come in and kill you," he said. "These people went through a great deal of trouble to sever a man's head from his body then carry an 87-year-old woman to a boat at some juncture, tie cement blocks to her, and throw her in a lake."

Sills says while he's not afraid of whoever killed the Dermonds, he has what he calls a far greater concern.

"My fear here is I'm not going to be able to find out who did it," he said.

Because for all his work, Sills has nothing to show for it.

WMAZ
Billboards go up across state in Dermond case

"When you are looking for one fish in a big pond, and you don't have a stump to cast from then you start casting a mighty broad net," he said.

Sills says he frequently communicates with the Dermond family and that they have cooperated completely with the investigation.

 

[watcher9]

The butchering sets make very nice Christmas gifts for hunters, especially the ones that come in the case. You can get them at Bass Pro Shops, etc for around $60.00. However, I can't picture the perp bringing a dressing kit. He would have used one knife like the third one in the picture, popping the neck bones apart by inserting the tip and twisting. Then he would have wiped the knife off and put it back in the sheath in his belt. What did he wipe the knife off on? A rag or Mr. D's clothing?

This is the part that gets me. Why a knife? Why not a gun (with a silencer)?
Would this knife be used in fishing as well as hunting?

As a side note, could the sighting by the witness have spooked the perpetrators into grabbing MrsD and leaving the scene before they had a chance to rob the home?

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Every time I see this thread in Today's Posts, I get excited hoping for a break. Can't believe it's been this long without someone talking or slipping up. What about a house keeper or groundsman? Did the Dermond's have a lot of hired help? I keep remembering the neighbor that allegedly heard men's voices the morning of the crimes.

 

[watcher9]

Every time I see this thread in Today's Posts, I get excited hoping for a break. Can't believe it's been this long without someone talking or slipping up. What about a house keeper or groundsman? Did the Dermond's have a lot of hired help? I keep remembering the neighbor that allegedly heard men's voices the morning of the crimes.

I had forgotten about the neighbor hearing men's voices. Has it been determined to be the morning (weekend of the murders)? If the neighbor lived a few doors away, wouldn't it have been impossible to hear someone talking at the Dermonds, unless they were yelling?
Maybe these men who were talking were checking each residence on the street to find an entry point?
I assume by now that non-residents who own a house in that area have checked their homes thoroughly for damage or items missing.

 

[watcher9]

I'm still looking for a link about the neighbor hearing men's voices, but found this old one. What grabbed my eye again was Sills' statement. Maybe he thought they had kidnapped her for a ATM password but ended up dumping her in the lake going in by boat from another launch site? Why a hammer? Why not a knife or gun? I'm beginning to think the weapon of choice is what was available at the location because the original intent was burglary and not murder? Did the Dermonds have a set of knives in the garage?

&#8220;I still think they came by car, but there is no question whatsoever that Mrs. Dermond&#8217;s body was, in my opinion, disposed of by boat,&#8221; Sills said. &#8220;They could have come by boat.&#8221;

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/news/local/crime/article30230859.html#storylink=cpy