GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[Lawdog99]

I can't seem to let this case go , Ocean I assume you are talking to me LOL...thank you for your input as well.....I guess I look for logic instead of random acts, like some or yourself saying, they cannot fathom the children doing this to their parents, though it happens...but because WE wouldnt do it, doesnt mean someone else wouldnt'......but it seems to make sense in my mind that it's not random, there is a reason *(heaven forbid) but nothing in this case makes sense and nothing logic or illogical should cause death at all much less as horrific as theirs

I remember JA telling them 2 or 3 men broke in and held them at gun point.....AND, she called the police and offered herself for questioning so hung herself but she'd have been caught anyway, yes, you are correct

Remember the alarm system of the D's being brought up, tampered with, turned off, apparently it was something significant enough to be mentioned early on, it happened close to or during the duaghters visit at easter

Also,There was a female family member that lied upon initial questioning by LE or SS, SS said he went back and re questioned her after finding her story (whatever that was, we do not know) wasn't quite truthful and he was a little more forceful in his questioning the second time he claimed

She broke down and SS determined he did not believe she was connected but SS said, "I never say never"

There were no names given....The D's have a daughter....they have a daughter in law..grandaughters..and I am sure Mrs D or Mr D had no living siblings, their family circle is very small it appears and friends are more like acquaintances it seems

I found a lien in FL and shared that with HockeyGuy, on KD, it was paid off 2 years after the D's death...I went back to the link I had sent him and I no longer find that there...I need to investigate that again to make sure

They were self sustaining as we assume...I believe they were given the companies by their father....but what debt did they have? We do not have their records. Also what about criminal activiity? We dont know that either? What about Bribery or Blackmail by someone due to possible Money Laundering, we dont know that either, There is a host of things that probably aren't or can't even be investigated without probable cause...so back to square 1 in this case...it could be anyone. family included..............but WHY would a female family member even LIE about ANYTHING in this case as horrific as it is and WHY??I can't even imagine what it was about and it was not told in the news except the info I have given above

IN this case, can we assume that it would not have taken 7 years to receive teh death cert of Mrs D?? maybe 1 or 2 max, given that he was murdered so horrifically and she was missing? Even the son assumed she was dead, even hoped she was so she didn't "suffer" IIRC

I remember thinking that maybe the parents would live to be 100..maybe someone needed money fast, maybe someone sent a message to one of the kids.....but.I need funds and cant get it right now, some people have no conscience and will get it however...hard to fathom, all i know is "follow the money"...nothing was stolen, it didnt have to be...I cant seem to find anything else that makes quite as much sense but I do find other scenarios that seem work or we can make fit

Thanks for your input, its nice to keep this thread going for the D's, mulling over scenarios helps bring clarity and new thoughts ......

hoping the killers are caught, sad to be just waiting on a phone call to find out what happned, I would have said "SOLVE IT" but a phone call isn't detective work

I am hoping for more info on this case, it's still closed tho SS says he'll open it for anyone,

anyone want to go with me to see him????BUt if we aren't doing a podcast on him, I wonder if he'd let us see the file

Count me in, I live a good ways from that area but would love to visit. I assume their are rental homes or townhouses/condos for rent in that area.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

all over the area! Lakeside homes and hotels

Count me in, I live a good ways from that area but would love to visit. I assume their are rental homes or townhouses/condos for rent in that area.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I know, this case, it's wearing me out, if SS is thinking on this half as much as I am with little to go on lol...he might be frazzled! It still bothers me too Lawdog, I wonder if he'd open his files to us

It just seems too many for there not to be a connection, because all of these people were connected in one way or another to each other.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Reading up on the Hooks case in Laurens County GA, just how some of these GA counties operate, I haev heard from the locals in Putnam, some hate SS and some worship him....not that anything like this has ever happened but we dont know what goes on behind the scenes in any county but I dont think any GA county is immune to corruption....Ijust hope like someone mentioned here before that maybe SS and the DA are blowing this case off, they know what happened, have no proof and the couple was old anyway....that woudl be horrific...still curious, if anyone can comment, why the District Atty has had nothing to say on this case or should he have anything to say........http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/ju...tigators-credibility-in-hooks-death/513188091

 

[Razz]

Reading up on the Hooks case in Laurens County GA, just how some of these GA counties operate, I haev heard from the locals in Putnam, some hate SS and some worship him....not that anything like this has ever happened but we dont know what goes on behind the scenes in any county but I dont think any GA county is immune to corruption....Ijust hope like someone mentioned here before that maybe SS and the DA are blowing this case off, they know what happened, have no proof and the couple was old anyway....that woudl be horrific...still curious, if anyone can comment, why the District Atty has had nothing to say on this case or should he have anything to say........http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/ju...tigators-credibility-in-hooks-death/513188091

Well, maybe you could email and ask. Do they have a FB page?

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[Bootsctr]

So they did this to send a message and they picked a couple who were 87 and 88 years old who lived in a gated community. Nothing in the house was disturbed, stolen and apparently no evidence was left behind. i'm not saying it's not possible but I think it's highly unlikely imo. Maybe i'm wrong but I still think this was personal and someone close to them. Lets not forget the woman who wasn't being truthful during questioning . The family staying quiet and not hiring a private investigator. Something is seriously wrong with how the family is handling this case almost as if they know who killed them

Lest we forget, it was Keith himself who pointed the investigation in the direction of the Nuwaubian cult. I think he knew that would get the attention of the locals who were familiar with the cult and its history. SS, to me, seemed to poo poo the idea of the cult.

I'm beginning to think it was a hired hit by someone very close, familial or through some "friend" contact there in Putnam county. No overkill. Just came in and did the deed. But why behead Mr. D????

Since I first started following this case, I have tried to watch or read any case that involved a beheading to get some clue as to why? It does make sense that someone wanted to take the head if Mr. D was shot and the bullet did not exit. But, the longer this goes unsolved, the more I think the head was not removed because Mr. D was shot.

It seems a lot of the time a body is decapitated, it is to prevent or delay the identification of the victim. Makes me think of Lauren Giddings and her killer. I think only her torso was recovered. But McDaniel was sloppy. The Dermonds' killer was not. Perhaps his original intent was to kill and dismember both Mr. and Mrs. D and spread the body parts in many locations. Once he started with Mr. D's head, he realized this was not going to be an easy process to dismember 2 bodies and his plan changed. I think he felt pressure to get in and out and dismembering both was not going to allow a quick getaway. Once he completed the decapitation, I think he could have said to heck with that and just decided to dump Mrs. D's body.

In any event, it did work by giving the killer a 4-day head start on the cops. SS did question if it was Mr. D in the garage. They questioned the family about the finger that was partially amputated from an old injury. And they couldn't rule out Mrs. D as being the one who murdered Mr. D until her body surfaced.

Maybe the original plan was to dismember both and spread out the body parts, but the backup plan became take Mr. D's head and dump Mrs. D in Lake Oconee. It was ordered by someone close to the D's and it was meant to send a message to the family or to friends/neighbors in Reynold's Plantation. If something was taken, other than 2 elderly people's lives, the family isn't telling and therein lies part of the reason this case has come to a complete standstill. If it was as the profiler suggested and someone held a very, very deep grudge against the D's, it seems the family would also know the identity of that person. Or the deep-seated grudge comes from within the family itself and it is all about self-preservation.

 

[Bootsctr]

Here is the last MSM article that was updated June 2017: http://www.macon.com/news/local/crime/article74944397.html

Thanks! Had not seen this article.

Thinking back, Keith Dermond also thinks about how visitors’ license plates weren’t routinely recorded, how almost anyone could have driven in undetected. But then there is no telling whether the killer or killers came by car at all, what with Shirley Dermond’s body disposed of miles down the lake in nearly 50 feet of water.

“It’s hard to believe they took her so far away from the house. Did they really go from the house to where they left her all that way in a boat?” he said. “That’s hard to believe too. So just so many mysterious things. Just none of it seems to make sense.”

Just my opinion that Mrs. D was dumped where she was because the killer was ordered to dump her 5 miles away where the water was 50 feet deep. The plan was for the body to never be recovered. Inheritance for the most part had already been given out. Only the home was left and few belongings. Nothing to feud over. Somebody felt they had to die and it was not die from old age.

 

[FindHG]

So they did this to send a message and they picked a couple who were 87 and 88 years old who lived in a gated community. Nothing in the house was disturbed, stolen and apparently no evidence was left behind. i'm not saying it's not possible but I think it's highly unlikely imo. Maybe i'm wrong but I still think this was personal and someone close to them. Lets not forget the woman who wasn't being truthful during questioning . The family staying quiet and not hiring a private investigator. Something is seriously wrong with how the family is handling this case almost as if they know who killed them

During my visit with Foxfire, everything he shared seemed right on the mark. I see no reason to second guess him.

He discovered a lot, posted on this thread.

Besides, that area we met gave me the creeps. At the time, my DH and I, our hotel room was broken into, while we were in it, then again later, and lots of other funky stuff. Not exactly a welcoming place the various times we met for meals.

The thieves at the worst western were pretty brazen. Crime and local business seemed very much part of the swing of things.

It was a dream to have a chance to see Foxfire face to face, talk, share as much as we could. A privilege.

~

(Oh, and we shared a mountain of gossip and his fondness for y'all, especially his high esteem of roses and magz from the NOCO thread. *giggle*)

 

[Razz]

During my visit with Foxfire, everything he shared seemed right on the mark. I see no reason to second guess him.

He discovered a lot, posted on this thread.

Besides, that area we met gave me the creeps. At the time, my DH and I, our hotel room was broken into, while we were in it, then again later, and lots of other funky stuff. Not exactly a welcoming place the various times we met for meals.

The thieves at the worst western were pretty brazen. Crime and local business seemed very much part of the swing of things.

It was a dream to have a chance to see Foxfire face to face, talk, share as much as we could. A privilege.

Oh wow. So, are you saying it could be the NC?

All that just to get to SS? Or to make him look bad?

Are you thinking that your hotel break-ins were related to the NC?

Have you thought about contacting SS and meeting with him personally?

Even without this being solved, he was reelected as Sheriff. And if SS really has no clue who did this, what was the point?



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[FindHG]

Oh wow. So, are you saying it could be the NC?

All that just to get to SS? Or to make him look bad?

Are you thinking that your hotel break-ins were related to the NC?

Have you thought about contacting SS and meeting with him personally?

Even without this being solved, he was reelected as Sheriff. And if SS really has no clue who did this, what was the point?

I'm saying that I'm pretty convinced Foxfire had it exactly right.

The break-in probably had more to do with, that only non-residents are permitted not to have guns there, and the location of where we stayed and ate. My take of the place.

Foxfire met with local LE, IIRC.

Why would anyone want a clue that would compromise their capacity to thrive could be the question, especially if the dynamic continues?

Plus, the Dermonds weren't murdered by amateurs by any stretch of the imagination, based on what is known, it seems.

So, there may be no evidence to go on, besides a trail of intimidation and murder to ponder?

Whomever wanted them dead this way may have had some idea of how to bend and not break things.

Things that may be hard to pinpoint, but set parameters and tone, like any syndicate type deal.

Leaving a segment of a population scared, an area, a town, when businesses, property, etc... is at stake seems a sad reason to have this happen to two innocent people, but it seems possible the way things have played out so far.

 

[Razz]

I'm saying that I'm pretty convinced Foxfire had it exactly right.

The break-in probably had more to do with, that only non-residents are permitted not to have guns there, and the location of where we stayed and ate. My take of the place.

Foxfire met with local LE, IIRC.

Why would anyone want a clue that would compromise their capacity to thrive could be the question, especially if the dynamic continues.

Plus, the Dermonds weren't murdered by amateurs by any stretch of the imagination.

Whomever wanted them dead this way may have had some idea of how to bend and not break things.

Ok. So is the NC thriving? And what dynamic are you talking about?

Not being argumentative but I'm trying to see through the mud.

Taking out an older couple in the latter stages of their lives is not......daring enough imo for the NC to be making
"a statement". Why not a family with children?

I don't think the murders were random but it makes more sense that the murders we're meant to send a message to the family.

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[FindHG]

Ok. So is the NC thriving? And what dynamic are you talking about?

Not being argumentative but I'm trying to see through the mud.

Taking out an older couple in the latter stages of their lives is not......daring enough imo for the NC to be making
"a statement". Why not a family with children?

I don't think the murders were random but it makes more sense that the murders we're meant to send a message to the family.

Keep going, Razz, no worries about thinking this through.

The NC is a crime syndicate that keeps being reborn in various forms, and they still exist, locally.

The Dermonds may have been the easiest people within the perp's area of awareness to murder this way and get away with it clean.

The family may have been part of the victims' the perp profiled to some extent, in that no connection exists, no way to mistake it as anything to do with the family easily.

 

[Razz]

The NC is a crime syndicate that keeps being reborn in various forms, and they still exist, locally.

The Dermonds may have been the easiest people within the perp's area of awareness to murder this way and get away with it clean.

The family may have been part of the victims' the perp profiled to some extent, in that no connection exists, no way to mistake it as anything to do with them easily.

Not sure I understood your last paragraph.

Why have they not struck again?

So was their purpose to get a head?
Was it to send a message to SS or to the community?

I just don't get it.

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[Razz]

There was no way to make a connection between the family and the murdered Dermonds, for SS to find a POI among them.

There was nothing taken, for SS to think it a break-in gone awry.

There may have been a lot of cash coming into the area for NC to get involved.

NC may have wanted to launder it over time, especially in real estate.

NC, groups with similar ties, can basically function as contractors for more legit money flows.

You don't end up in a supermax for selling scented oils and ugly art.

Well, we don't really know that SS doesn't suspect family. He could but
of course he won't and can't say.

And NC laundering money. Are you thinking they wanted the Dermond house empty so the could buy the house?

I know you are legit, we've worked on
the same threads. But why are you just now coming out with this info? You must have met w/ FF about 2 years ago.

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[FindHG]

Hope the Dermond's horrible murder is someday solved.

Foxfire may have been wrong about NC (the LI, comment on the weather report n all), or he passed before more information became available, and he'd be thinking along completely different lines.

Maybe another kind of cult, syndicate or parties who'd benefit from a well planned and executed unsolvable horrific crime, were showing what they can do?

Maybe the decapitation was to throw things off and it was actually some other local concern or interest involved with illicit funds and intimidation?

Has there been more information beyond SS being stumped, committed, but not needing help?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Well there's an idea!

Well, maybe you could email and ask. Do they have a FB page?

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[FindHG]

Well there's an idea!

What would you ask? Thank you, for thinking of it.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

It doesnt seem as thought the market has suffered there....

That is awesome you met with FF....

Where did you stay? Milledgeville or Eatonton? I would have chosen Milledgeville LOL....only a few hotels near DQ I THINK....

You mean no weapons are permitted by guests at this establisment? WIth or without a carry permit? I can see a bar having that rule but not a hotel where people can easily be robbed

What did FF find out from LE other than what we already have and recently discovered byt the podcast

I thought the same thing as Razz, SS was re elected in spite of the terrible crime

but we have to remember that this is a small town and cliques there, there is a class

of folks that LOVE HIM, worship him, get kicks out of his comments............and there is that class of folks that do not trust him and do not like him

and then there are the out of town or state lake folks

Thanks for all this info FINDHG

I'm saying that I'm pretty convinced Foxfire had it exactly right.

The break-in probably had more to do with, that only non-residents are permitted not to have guns there, and the location of where we stayed and ate. My take of the place.

Foxfire met with local LE, IIRC.

Why would anyone want a clue that would compromise their capacity to thrive could be the question, especially if the dynamic continues?

Plus, the Dermonds weren't murdered by amateurs by any stretch of the imagination, based on what is known, it seems.

So, there may be no evidence to go on, besides a trail of intimidation and murder to ponder?

Whomever wanted them dead this way may have had some idea of how to bend and not break things.

Things that may be hard to pinpoint, but set parameters and tone, like any syndicate type deal.

Leaving a segment of a population scared, an area, a town, when businesses, property, etc... is at stake seems a sad reason to have this happen to two innocent people, but it seems possible the way things have played out so far.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Not sure what to ask the DA....I was more curious about what involvement he/she would have in regards to a case like this...any protocol....or is it all just left up to LE even as a cold case....and until there is a suspect and arrest, DA has to approve that, correct? If so, there is no arrest imminent apparently.........

but I have a few questions for LE or SS

Where was luminol used? was it inside or outside or both? or at all?

Did someone come in and clean the house? McDaniel did, luminol discovered that

What happened with the footprints in the yard investigation

Do you remember that HG?

I also wonder how bad the blood splatter was and could a gun have been used >...OR NOT....seems it would be close range and the bullet should have exited and left a certain type of splatter or atelast MORE than was suspected

SS meandered on his stance in regards to a bullet lodged ...at first said no, and then later said he'd not ever seen that I THINK but then said he thought it was the reason

What prompted the change in his opinion?

I recall there was not any or not much blood splatter except where it puddled but Ive seen no pictures of the crime scene

What would you ask? Thank you, for thinking of it.

 

[FindHG]

It doesnt seem as thought the market has suffered there....

That is awesome you met with FF....

Where did you stay? Milledgeville or Eatonton? I would have chosen Milledgeville LOL....only a few hotels near DQ I THINK....

You mean no weapons are permitted by guests at this establisment? WIth or without a carry permit? I can see a bar having that rule but not a hotel where people can easily be robbed

What did FF find out from LE other than what we already have and recently discovered byt the podcast

I thought the same thing as Razz, SS was re elected in spite of the terrible crime

but we have to remember that this is a small town and cliques there, there is a class

of folks that LOVE HIM, worship him, get kicks out of his comments............and there is that class of folks that do not trust him and do not like him

and then there are the out of town or state lake folks

Thanks for all this info FINDHG

We were about an hour away from where he lived on our way to somewhere else, if that helps?

The county mandated all resident own guns, from what I recall.

I'm sure he would've shared anything he learned on the thread at the time. I'm not remembering anything about what was said or if. He did talk to LE about so many cases all over the country, no?

I think Foxfire's posts have answers to all the questions I could answer. I always kept a fresh mind away from the thread, as it were. I have yet to read more that a dozen posts. Trusted that with Foxfire on the thread, being a local and very well researched, there wasn't much I could bring to it, besides support.