GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[kirkassoc]

Thanks for listening and giving us a chance! I hope the episode wasn't too long. I didn't want to go over an hour, but so many of the guests made such good points, it was hard to edit everything down to an hour.

Fantastic podcast. I listened on my cell phone last night. So interesting the way each guest had a different theory (even Tricia). This case has haunted me too.

I learned some new details as well. I never knew that SD was struck twice and so hard that part of her skull was missing.

It seemed to be the most popular theory that the killer/killers arrived by boat, and that would explain a sharp fish filet knife and the mesh bags for storing fish in water to keep them fresh (also concrete blocks in mesh bags could serve as an anchor). As far as the towels...we, too, always keep towels in our garage, but it would be great to know if these towels came from inside the house or if there were identical towels in the garage. Towels might not be something carried on a boat, unless it's a cabin cruiser, etc.

So many theories mentioned, it is hard to get my mind around which is more plausible. One guest mentioned the rage theory (sort of like road rage) which might have involved RD telling some fishermen at his boat dock to get off his property (and they came back with a vengence). I would imagine the Ds owned a boat at one time. Who purchased it? She was fully clothed, and he was in his robe and slippers, who was killed first?

This was a wonderful and interesting podcast. I've been scratching my head and going over it all morning. Great guests and hosts. Thank you so much!!! I look forward to more! I pray this is one day solved. We'll probably all be shocked if/when we learn the who, why and how regarding this senseless, horrific crime.

 

[kirkassoc]

Larry Levine was very doubtful, it was Mafia related. There wasn’t any reason for the Mafia to have interest in this elderly couple. I’ve always maintained, it was a hired hit, and the demented hit man decided to improvise, hence the beheading, just because. While listening last night, I finally had a feeling where the head was disposed. I think the head, along with Shirley’s body, were thrown from the boat into the lake.

IMHO

After watching crime programs on youtube, I was wondering if perhaps the head was taken and the body and head photographed, separately, to prove he was deceased. They may have taken another photo of SD bound and on the boat. I have watched numerous "hits for hire" where the bodies have been posed to make the person hiring them "believe" they were dead. There would have been no way to fake photographs of something this horrific. Just another theory, and I actually have no clue.

Look forward to the next podcast.

 

[wildebeest]

Thanks for the kind words in your post above.

So I 100% believe that the separate killings were a diversion. I also beleve it was a trio of people. The guy on the lawn tells me that’s probable. How do we know the Dermonds knew their killers? Half finished crossword puzzle, unlocked doors and nothing was distributed.

These people definitely wanted to make SD seem like the bad person briefly. Husband is headless in the garage and she vanished for 10 days. Did they tie 30lbs or 60lbs to the body? Regardless it was in the tree line, the body didn’t weigh enough to not drift once it rose.

I know the kids are cleared and I’m not saying they did it or even hired someone that did but I think they know more than they’re letting on. This happened 5 years ago and one of them has said a word once! Well a few words but that’s sketchy.

This had to do with money. Nothing else makes sense. Maybe SS should have a different forensic accountant go over the records. SS if you ever check in get DD to comb over the records he was the forensic accountant in the Tex McIver case.

Just too many coincidences IMO. Alarm disabled over Easter. Camera’s not working. A family member was not truthful. This couple was not just randomly killed on the first weekend of boating season when they were headed to a party the same evening.

Obviously people didn’t want to imitate the welfare check. Follow the money and someone close to the family knows more than they’re telling us. My Opinion are my own but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

Couldn’t have said it better, tennispro. IMHO, it is the likeliest scenario. I firmly believe there was more than one person involved, and I don’t believe they knew the elder Dermonds. These killers were instructed to do a thorough job with the”hit,” and I think they got carried away with their work. Whoever chose to behead Mr. Dermond is one sick puppy, and needs to be apprehended. They succeeded in puzzling the authorities with the manner of death. SS is a dedicated officer of the law, and I believe he has a good idea who was behind this crime, but can’t make a solid case, at this time.

IMHO

 

[deugirtni]

Is there a way to listen to it now, after the fact, and on a laptop versus a cellphone? and if so, how? Thanks!

 

[TJtennispro]

S1E1: Murder Mystery At Great Waters Into The Case podcast

 

[TJtennispro]

The above link should work in a browser.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Listened to the podcast and it was much better than I expected. Great job and I hope the next is even better. Dianne moody said it was probably a mob hit from up north but Atlanta also has a mafia family so maybe it was them. I still believe this was revenge, if this was about money something would have been stolen , if this was about sending a message what was the message with both parents dead? My thoughts on this is, Mrs D was probably up in the early morning when the killers got her and brought her to the garage, on the way to the garage she screamed and Mr D awoke and went to check on her ( I suspect this because Mrs D was dressed for the day and Mr D was in a robe still) I believe Mr D made it to the garage and that's where the killers grabbed him, this contains the crime scene area to 1 place the garage. I believe this is where they were killed hence the house being undisturbed. Not sure why Mrs D was dumped in the lake except to gain a few days to get out of the area and set up an alibi .

I would like to know why the man on the lawn was cleared early on, and if they have searched the bottom of the whole lake thoroughly for the head.
Is MS13 in that area? this is something they do for initiation into the gang.

Great job and can't wait for the next episode

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Thanks for listening and giving us a chance! I hope the episode wasn't too long. I didn't want to go over an hour, but so many of the guests made such good points, it was hard to edit everything down to an hour.

I liked it was not too short. They did have good points!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Yep, what I have been repeating here for 2 years......atleast... and this year will be 5th year anniv of their death! Unbelievable. Too many coincidences, yes they knew their killer........so distressing to imagine it all to try to analyze it

Thanks for the kind words in your post above.

So I 100% believe that the separate killings were a diversion. I also beleve it was a trio of people. The guy on the lawn tells me that’s probable. How do we know the Dermonds knew their killers? Half finished crossword puzzle, unlocked doors and nothing was distributed.

These people definitely wanted to make SD seem like the bad person briefly. Husband is headless in the garage and she vanished for 10 days. Did they tie 30lbs or 60lbs to the body? Regardless it was in the tree line, the body didn’t weigh enough to not drift once it rose.

I know the kids are cleared and I’m not saying they did it or even hired someone that did but I think they know more than they’re letting on. This happened 5 years ago and one of them has said a word once! Well a few words but that’s sketchy.

This had to do with money. Nothing else makes sense. Maybe SS should have a different forensic accountant go over the records. SS if you ever check in get DD to comb over the records he was the forensic accountant in the Tex McIver case.

Just too many coincidences IMO. Alarm disabled over Easter. Camera’s not working. A family member was not truthful. This couple was not just randomly killed on the first weekend of boating season when they were headed to a party the same evening.

Obviously people didn’t want to imitate the welfare check. Follow the money and someone close to the family knows more than they’re telling us. My Opinion are my own but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

 

[msphilosopher]

Interesting case! Podcast was good! I liked the different perspectives on the case.

Questions / comments:

1. Was Shirley's blood found on the garage?
2. The bashing of SD's head seems like hate/ anger motive and beheading of RD seems like hired hit/ mobish
3. In podcast, LE speaker thinks definitely mob hit because crime was too clean ... Levine thinks not a mob hit because crime wasn't clean since her body was found.
4. The diversion of disposing of SD in the lake as a way to cast suspicion on her, seems rather elaborate for a straight hired hit/ mob hit but then at the same time seems like it was calculating as someone who is familiar of crimes and how to mislead investigations.
5. If the crime was personal, then target seems to be Shirley IMO.
6. Who was the family member that was untruthful? What were they untruthful about? (mentioned in quoted post above)

Elaborating on #5 ... If Shirley was killed second then she probably witnessed the beheading. The cruelty of potentially have her witness the death of RD, experiencing a beating/crushed skull, being dumped into a lake to be frame for the murder of her husband ruins her reputation, credibility and image which is very spiteful to want to harm her as a person even after her death. If this scenario is true, then she seems more of a target then RD.

This really seems to be hired hit non mob related to me. IDK -- such an interesting case.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Interesting case! Podcast was good! I liked the different perspectives on the case.

Questions / comments:

1. Was Shirley's blood found on the garage?
2. The bashing of SD's head seems like hate/ anger motive and beheading of RD seems like hired hit/ mobish
3. In podcast, LE speaker thinks definitely mob hit because crime was too clean ... Levine thinks not a mob hit because crime wasn't clean since her body was found.
4. The diversion of disposing of SD in the lake as a way to cast suspicion on her, seems rather elaborate for a straight hired hit/ mob hit but then at the same time seems like it was calculating as someone who is familiar of crimes and how to mislead investigations.
5. If the crime was personal, then target seems to be Shirley IMO.
6. Who was the family member that was untruthful? What were they untruthful about? (mentioned in quoted post above)

Elaborating on #5 ... If Shirley was killed second then she probably witnessed the beheading. The cruelty of potentially have her witness the death of RD, experiencing a beating/crushed skull, being dumped into a lake to be frame for the murder of her husband ruins her reputation, credibility and image which is very spiteful to want to harm her as a person even after her death. If this scenario is true, then she seems more of a target then RD.

This really seems to be hired hit non mob related to me. IDK -- such an interesting case.

Ditto, hired, everything was to confuse

Luke I've mentioned before, does a knowledgeable hit man try to make a case confusing by throwing in unprofessionalisms, as in this case, for every Unpro act there was equally pro acts per SS.... or would one unprofessional throw in professionalisms to make it appear confusing...... They already are hired hit pros so I'd think they'd know what to throw in to make it confusing

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Ditto, hired, everything was to confuse

Luke I've mentioned before, does a knowledgeable hit man try to make a case confusing by throwing in unprofessionalisms, as in this case, for every Unpro act there was equally pro acts per SS.... or would one unprofessional throw in professionalisms to make it appear confusing...... They already are hired hit pros so I'd think they'd know what to throw in to make it confusing

I think the pros would know more what to confuse with, if this didnt make sense......... not sure an unprofessional would know what professionalisms look like , or they'd be considered professional LOL

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I know 1 thing and I've never killed anyone. If I were to get rid of a body the last place i'd dump a body would be in a lake. Ocean yes but a lake heck no. Mobsters or a decent hitman would know that dumping a body in the lake the body will be found sooner than later. My guess is RD's head is in that lake too. This was pure revenge

 

[wildebeest]

I know 1 thing and I've never killed anyone. If I were to get rid of a body the last place i'd dump a body would be in a lake. Ocean yes but a lake heck no. Mobsters or a decent hitman would know that dumping a body in the lake the body will be found sooner than later. My guess is RD's head is in that lake too. This was pure revenge

Not to mention they took a chance of being caught with a body and head in the boat, and all the extra time and trouble in doing this.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Not to mention they took a chance of being caught with a body and head in the boat, and all the extra time and trouble in doing this.

I know 1 thing and I've never killed anyone. If I were to get rid of a body the last place i'd dump a body would be in a lake. Ocean yes but a lake heck no. Mobsters or a decent hitman would know that dumping a body in the lake the body will be found sooner than later. My guess is RD's head is in that lake too. This was pure revenge

Just realized with clarity, they DIDNT WANT to haul her in the car, NO CAR was used........too risky to be seen traveling thru the area of homes and... forensics if anyone saw the car and reported it

WAY less likely in the boat, my 20 plus yr experience on lake sinclair, the DNR are never around much except major holidays. Night fishermen are rarely seen or atleast not paid much attention to by home owners in the area. Even if a boat lingers in a cove you may not even be noticed if no one is outside

It's been discussed waay back in the threads but these lakes are pretty quiet most of the year until memorial day and right up until school starts and/or labor day........even at that, most everyone is usually off the lake by suppertime, except like July 4th or some holiday evening rides, summer and all year.... but especially quiet during most of the year

SO not as risky as it seems, though i'd still be scared to death LOL but cars, too many people driving instead of boating

NOPE< NO CAR was used

 

[wildebeest]

Just realized with clarity, they DIDNT WANT to haul her in the car, NO CAR was used........too risky to be seen traveling thru the area of homes and... forensics if anyone saw the car and reported it

WAY less likely in the boat, my 20 plus yr experience on lake sinclair, the DNR are never around much except major holidays. Night fishermen are rarely seen or atleast not paid much attention to by home owners in the area. Even if a boat lingers in a cove you may not even be noticed if no one is outside

It's been discussed waay back in the threads but these lakes are pretty quiet most of the year until memorial day and right up until school starts and/or labor day........even at that, most everyone is usually off the lake by suppertime, except like July 4th or some holiday evening rides, summer and all year.... but especially quiet during most of the year

SO not as risky as it seems, though i'd still be scared to death LOL but cars, too many people driving instead of boating

NOPE< NO CAR was used[/QUOTE

Was Mrs. D located near the shore? I didn’t think so. IF they did transport her by vehicle, where would she have been left?

 

[TJtennispro]

Just shooting from the hip here Levi but when y’all come to town. Can you ask SS what ruled out the kids? I know their phones were “hundreds of miles away” but just because my phone is hundreds of miles away doesn’t mean I am. Also doesn’t mean they can’t know or be scared of anyone. I still think one of them knows something about all of this. MOO

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Oddly enough those cell towers can give them all numbers who made calls or texts while i'm sure there are many i'm also sure they could find that odd number out easily. I worked in cellular for many years so I know the information those towers hold. TJTennispro i'd also like to know the answer to your question and also about the female relative who was untruthful during the 1st interview and who broke down during the 2nd interview. I'd also like to know about the man on the lawn.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Dermond family established in restaurant business

Did a quick search of the dermond businesses but haven't had time to dig deeper yet but they seem to be very profitable

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Rereading some old articles and I saw this. Another case of SS misleading the public. The last paragraph was an obvious lie, how could he not notice her skull was bashed in when he pulled her from the lake. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/129892189/shirley-dermond

Incase you don't want to read the whole thing here is a quote from SS that I mentioned above.

Shirley Dermond's death was "most certainly a homicide," but there were no "glaring signs of trauma," Sills said, adding the body was found about 5 or 6 miles from the Dermond's home, which could indicate that it was transported to the lake.

SS is really playing a game here hoping the witness to this horrible crime corrects him with what really happened. Sadly I don't believe anything SS has said about this case.