GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[deugirtni]

It’s a lake! People boat on the lake that’s literally what it’s for and nobody knew anyone was murdered. My house that I’m in this moment is as secluded as the D’s lake house. I can’t tell you if 5 or 35 cars have driven by this morning. I also don’t go investigate when they do. It’s not illegal.

I'm not saying it's illegal, and i'm sure you don't go looking out the window when a car drives by... however.. like others have mentioned, at the time of year when this happened, the lake is not yet busy with boaters (and I am not sure about fishing seasons?), so it *may* have been more unusual to hear/see a boat at that particular time? Plus if it was at night, which one might presume it would have been, considering the cargo, that makes it even more unusual. I would have thought someone might have noticed, even if it was after the fact.

 

[FinePrint]

Thanks, I realized just after I posted...
But if MD did have a child, would it have made sense for that now much older child to kill them, considering that child was not apparently included in the couple's Wills? (SS said the estate was split equally amongst the Ds' 3 children)

That is what I'm getting at...

 

[FinePrint]

Regarding type of boat they may have used...I was thinking along the lines of a pontoon type boat. They come in all shapes and sizes with and without privacy. My brother's family owned one for years. They can run rather quietly on the water as well (depending on the type of motor). Just throwing that out there.

And are typically the most often type of boat rented, easy to operate.

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

@TJtennispro
Are there any unsolved murders in Putnam County or Greene County from say 1970- 2014 that involve a gunshot wound and LE has a bullet from that murder in evidence?

JMO and wondering

 

[Valiant]

@Tricia and @Levi ,

I wanted to ask whether they had a cleaner and if so whether they were questioned? Did they do a walk through of the house with the cleaner to see if anything was missing? It would seem odd that that they didn't have a cleaner especially with such a large house and both being in their late 80s, I don't see how they could have kept it so spotless as it was described.

An intriguing part of your podcast was the Sheriff episode , when he said he had some suspects in mind that gave me goosebumps.

Is there a link to the full transcript of the 911 call?

My own view is that this was a revenge killing, I think the killers arrived by car and were known to the victims, JMO

I think any car that came to their house would have needed to pass through a security gate. That’s why a boat was likely used.

 

[Valiant]

It was listed below value, sold below value and was an arms length transaction. Non relative transfer. Exposed to the market for nearly 5 months.
qPublic.net - Putnam County, GA

147 Carolyn Dr, Eatonton, GA 31024 MLS# 07369803 - Movoto.com

There are homes on the lakes that have been for sale for over a year. I’m sure the price was lowered to hope for a faster sale to close the estate and reduce the carrying cost of the property.

 

[TJtennispro]

The body was found at Wallace Dam on Lake Oconee it was caught up in a tree line. It really couldn’t float but one way and let’s say it reached the end of a floating destination.

As I kid I was fascinated seeing water flow through a dam in Tennessee on the way to my grandparents.

*speculation below*

I can imagine them thinking one of two things would happen. Body sinks to the bottom or at some point in time the body could flow through Wallace Dam and now it’s in Lake Sinclair which is a different lake.

That’s why you hear Lawrence Shoals boat ramp often mentioned. It’s the end of the line. Last place to pull a boat out which happens to be at the Wallace Dam.

If you’re familiar with Atlanta I’ll make an analogy. MARTA last stop going North is the North Springs MARTA station. If a body was found in the North Springs rail line then I would assume that the killer got off at North Springs. Got in a car and drove away.

Thanks for your comments, and I'm happy to take your word for it. The thing I keep asking however, is how do you/SS know that SD was 'dumped' in the same place in which her body was discovered? ie, couldn't she have been 'dumped' (awful word, sorry) somewhere, and then the motion of the water carried her somewhat, over the 10 days until she was discovered? I'm not sure, since it is a man-made lake, if there are still underwater currents, or whatever.. to make things move, or do they just sit there wherever you place them? Wouldn't the normal winds also possibly move things along the bottom? And as her body started the decomp process which made her eventually 'float', then wouldn't that happen even moreso? I realize that you are saying the location where she was *discovered* cannot be accessed any other way, but I am asking if it is not possible she was dropped somewhere completely different?

ETA: Kind of like how they can't seem to find people who drown, even though they know where they went into the water. I realize she was tied down with some 60lbs of weight, but that is why I am asking. Is it not possible for that weight to move with whatever current/winds over 10 days?

 

[FinePrint]

The body was found at Wallace Dam on Lake Oconee it was caught up in a tree line. It really couldn’t float but one way and let’s say it reached the end of a floating destination.

As I kid I was fascinated seeing water flow through a dam in Tennessee on the way to my grandparents.

*speculation below*

I can imagine them thinking one of two things would happen. Body sinks to the bottom or at some point in time the body could flow through Wallace Dam and now it’s in Lake Sinclair which is a different lake.

That’s why you hear Lawrence Shoals boat ramp often mentioned. It’s the end of the line. Last place to pull a boat out which happens to be at the Wallace Dam.

If you’re familiar with Atlanta I’ll make an analogy. MARTA last stop going North is the North Springs MARTA station. If a body was found in the North Springs rail line then I would assume that the killer got off at North Springs. Got in a car and drove away.

I'm trying to follow this. Please help me out with this. Are you saying that the body was found on the other side of the dam? Can you access the Dermonds from the Lawrence Shoal ramp? Can you access the area that the body was found from the Dermonds house (via boat). Or was the body located on the other side of the dam and the only way to access the area where the body was found was from the other side of the dam by boat?

 

[TJtennispro]

I’m trying my best here but no the body was not found on the other side. Yes to question number 2. Yes to number 3.

Just completely throw out everything about the other side of the dam. I obviously somehow confused you.

I'm trying to follow this. Please help me out with this. Are you saying that the body was found on the other side of the dam? Can you access the Dermonds from the Lawrence Shoal ramp? Can you access the area that the body was found from the Dermonds house (via boat). Or was the body located on the other side of the dam and the only way to access the area where the body was found was from the other side of the dam by boat?

 

[FinePrint]

I’m trying my best here but no the body was not found on the other side. Yes to question number 2. Yes to number 3.

Just completely throw out everything about the other side of the dam. I obviously somehow confused you.

Thanks for helping me out on that, I thought I had it right in my head but then I got confused....

By the way I'm looking forward to your go pro ride on the lake.

 

[Timekeeper65]

Thanks for helping me out on that, I thought I had it right in my head but then I got confused....

By the way I'm looking forward to your go pro ride on the lake.

Yes me too. I’ll be on the lookout.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Let me ask a question about the area. If SD was dumped in the lake at the dam area how close is that to the Boat launch? Another question how many areas can someone launch a boat from between where SD was found ( I assume you can't go any further) and the Dermonds house?

Here's another question. How far is it from the boat launch to a main rd? Is this area deserted ? I'm just trying to figure out the area and whats around there mostly hoping to find a place on the way out of the dam that might have a camera

 

[Valiant]

Let me ask a question about the area. If SD was dumped in the lake at the dam area how close is that to the Boat launch? Another question how many areas can someone launch a boat from between where SD was found ( I assume you can't go any further) and the Dermonds house?

Here's another question. How far is it from the boat launch to a main rd? Is this area deserted ? I'm just trying to figure out the area and whats around there mostly hoping to find a place on the way out of the dam that might have a camera

Why does a boat need to be launched? What if one already on the lake was used?
There are boat ramps all over the lake that wouldn't need gated access to get to the lake.
look at the lake on Goggle maps. It's huge.

 

[drama_farmer]

My Dad owned a brown fishing boat with a built in floorboard that were removable for storage of gear or fish. It was big enough to fit me in as a 14 year old which would make me the size of SD.

Maybe that’s why they decapitated RD. Trying to make his body fit in the boat storage compartment which it just wouldn’t.
That’s obviously just speculation but could be a possibility.

I was thinking about scenarios that included decapitation, and IMO, some of the categories that it might fall under:

Ease of transport or temporary concealment (like in boat, as you mentioned).

Failed complete dismemberment: There's the "ran out of time" possibility, the "overwhelmed by the gore" hypothesis, and the "misunderstanding the plan" scenario, which would necessarily mean there was more than one perp involved in the murders. IMO

IMO, Injury inflicted that would leave evidence tying the perp to the crime: bite marks/signet ring impression/shoe print.

Removing evidence from the scene
If a sexual assault was perpetrated on Mr S by way of his mouth (yikes! sorry for having to be so graphic), decapitation would remove all evidence (dna) that would lead to the murderer(s) IMO

If the depraved perp bit Mr S on/around his face or head, they may have worried about leaving an impression which may link to them.

I know that a gun has been bandied about as a possible murder weapon, but what if the weapon used to inflict injury/death on Mr S was an unconventional weapon?
A hunting/archery arrow: couldn't remove it from head
An object like a bowling trophy, or other unique object that could be traced back to the perp(s). Hey, if I'm going to speculate, might as well push the envelope, LOL and MOO

 

[wildebeest]

This may seem like a really stupid question, so I apologize in advance if it is, but I'm feeling confused about this.. What is the great benefit to the safety of residents in a 'gated community', if anyone at any time can simply access any property by merely entering via the water instead of the roadway?

It isn’t safer, it only is an illusion. A gate will only stop innocent gawkers.

 

[wary]

Who plans for the act of sinking a dead body with concrete blocks, but yet doesn't understand or take the time to research how much weight it would actually take to keep a 170lb body submersed once decomposition begins?

A non-professional,
Or
Not-too-smart,
Or
Wants the body to be found, after all.

I don’t have a theory

 

[deugirtni]

I was thinking about scenarios that included decapitation, and IMO, some of the categories that it might fall under:

Ease of transport or temporary concealment (like in boat, as you mentioned).

Failed complete dismemberment: There's the "ran out of time" possibility, the "overwhelmed by the gore" hypothesis, and the "misunderstanding the plan" scenario, which would necessarily mean there was more than one perp involved in the murders. IMO

IMO, Injury inflicted that would leave evidence tying the perp to the crime: bite marks/signet ring impression/shoe print.

Removing evidence from the scene
If a sexual assault was perpetrated on Mr S by way of his mouth (yikes! sorry for having to be so graphic), decapitation would remove all evidence (dna) that would lead to the murderer(s) IMO

If the depraved perp bit Mr S on/around his face or head, they may have worried about leaving an impression which may link to them.

I know that a gun has been bandied about as a possible murder weapon, but what if the weapon used to inflict injury/death on Mr S was an unconventional weapon?
A hunting/archery arrow: couldn't remove it from head
An object like a bowling trophy, or other unique object that could be traced back to the perp(s). Hey, if I'm going to speculate, might as well push the envelope, LOL and MOO

While your thoughts seem a bit over the top to me, it's great to throw around ideas, since it can spawn more ideas.
Your post made me think of another possibility in regard to the head's removal - what if, rather than the killer leaving teethmarks on RD, perhaps RD had 'bitten' his killer.. we'd never know, since killer has not been found, however if RD's mouth contained DNA belonging to his killer, it would be difficult for the killer to know if he got every trace if he tried to clean inside his victim's mouth/teeth, so perhaps he removed the head to prevent the possibility of evidence extraction that way?

RD did had injuries to his fingers (crushing injuries?/laceration?) according to his autopsy report, and hair apparently in both of his hands - it seems like he may have put up at least a bit of a fight. If your teeth are all one might have to fight back with, it is a possibility, right?

 

[TJtennispro]

I don’t have an answer to that question. SS or another law enforcement officer in that area would have to answer that info.

@TJtennispro
Are there any unsolved murders in Putnam County or Greene County from say 1970- 2014 that involve a gunshot wound and LE has a bullet from that murder in evidence?

JMO and wondering

 

[TJtennispro]

LS boat ramp is marked and the other location is the spot that has been pointed out to me by friends on that lake.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

a cop

Where would a police officer acquire the knowledge of how to decapitate a human? I used to be in law enforcement, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that we never learned how to cut someone's head off. Do you like police?

I would suggest that a person who could navigate the lake well and knew how to decapitate a person would probably fall into the hunter/park ranger/fishing guide, etc. 'OTPTarheel2018' suggested Georgia DNR, which seems like a valid line of reasoning to me as well; anyone in that kind of role would most likely have a solid understanding of lake depths, natural spring in-feeds, currents, and underwater structure (maybe even sites where boats have sank or where cars went into the lake).