GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[dancinunderthemoon]

I step over the laser light, which is the safety device to prevent a garage door from shutting on objects, every day to exit my garage while the door is closing. It's not difficult.

THank you. Never thought of this being a typical thing someone would do!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

RSBM

The hair in RD's hands was said to be (by SS) SD's hair, even though:

RD's autopsy report says:
"What appeared to be gray hairs were collected from both of his hands and his shirt."

SD's autopsy report says:
"The majority of the scalp hair has slipped off due to decompositional change. The remaining hair appears light brown-blonde and up to approximately 4 inches."

YEP, was waiting for this to come up......Yall mentioned this and I looked at her pictures and she seems to have blonde hair in most pictures, probably died

SO..........what does this mean? I am hoping and praying they did a hair analysis!!!!!!!! on both!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

RSBM

Wouldn't the clothing have been sent instead to the forensic testing lab though, as opposed to being examined and reported on by the ME, after he removed her clothing? Would he have necessarily made mention of GSR on RD's shirt, when he knew that it would be tested conclusively one way or another, by the lab?

Good point, how would he KNOW if it was there or not unless can be seen by the naked eye?
On the other hand, Why would he even mention it thought if he didnt know? DO they have a testing kit for this?

No idea, great catch! Thank you!

 

[deugirtni]

Good point, how would he KNOW if it was there or not unless can be seen by the naked eye?
On the other hand, Why would he even mention it thought if he didnt know? DO they have a testing kit for this?

No idea, great catch! Thank you!

Not sure when exactly this article was written, but....
And I believe SS said there was only a tiny bit of GSR found on RD's t-shirt?
In any case, seems there are issues with identifying GSR and coming to conclusions based on its presence.

"When a gun is fired, the gunshot residue particles - small particles produced during the gunpowder explosions - are emitted from the back of the weapon and the muzzle. These particles fly onto the skin and clothing of the person holding the gun.
....
If the lab technicians find GSR, it can come from anywhere. Police take the view that if you haven’t just left the firing range, you fired the murder weapon. This argument holds great weight if you live in a society where guns are rare, such as Singapore or Japan. If you live in other places in the world, including the United States, that argument means nothing.
GSR lasts nearly forever. It can land on anything and stay there indefinitely. .... It is human nature to see what you want to see, and the police want to see that which will solve the crime.
....
Is the count 20 or less? An individual can get that by coming in contact with the police or other people.
....
If the particles are not spheroid shaped, this may also be proof that the residue comes from brake linings and thus is not GSR.
....
Did police officers take any steps to prevent cross contamination? Did they wash their hands? Did they clean their cars?"

Gun Shot Residue Testing - Is it Still a Viable Form of Physical Evidence?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Not sure when exactly this article was written, but....
And I believe SS said there was only a tiny bit of GSR found on RD's t-shirt?
In any case, seems there are issues with identifying GSR and coming to conclusions based on its presence.

"When a gun is fired, the gunshot residue particles - small particles produced during the gunpowder explosions - are emitted from the back of the weapon and the muzzle. These particles fly onto the skin and clothing of the person holding the gun.
....
If the lab technicians find GSR, it can come from anywhere. Police take the view that if you haven’t just left the firing range, you fired the murder weapon. This argument holds great weight if you live in a society where guns are rare, such as Singapore or Japan. If you live in other places in the world, including the United States, that argument means nothing.
GSR lasts nearly forever. It can land on anything and stay there indefinitely. .... It is human nature to see what you want to see, and the police want to see that which will solve the crime.
....
Is the count 20 or less? An individual can get that by coming in contact with the police or other people.
....
If the particles are not spheroid shaped, this may also be proof that the residue comes from brake linings and thus is not GSR.
....
Did police officers take any steps to prevent cross contamination? Did they wash their hands? Did they clean their cars?"

Gun Shot Residue Testing - Is it Still a Viable Form of Physical Evidence?

OH MY GOSH! I ahve never seen that! Well the man was 89, walking was his hobby I understand bascially, quit golfing, was surely not into auto mechanics and somehow I dont see him as an avid target shooter, never was mentioned at any rate. AND< They do live in GA!

DANG IT, cross contamination! Has to be, it was so little

SO the lab tech is not the coroner, does that happen at a different location?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Whats interesting is that if RD was murdered elsewhere, then you have to assume by him being brought back to the house, HE WAS MEANT to be FOUND

WAS SHE also MEANT to be found? 10' of water, edge of the tree line, onthe main channel, tied like 10 times but if they knew the gases would cause her to surface, perfrect fishinglocation to find her

IF they didnt want her found, they would have cut the body to release the gases (saw this in a movie lol) and so she wouldnt bloat and rise up like a helium balloon AND they could have taken her to any of the land areas surround the lake to hide her or bury her.......

THIS ALSO tells me no car was involved

SO who would wnat the bodies found?!

Also, the towels used to smear or wipe up the blood, either to slow down the flow or to get rid of prints!

What have been the working theories on why SD and RD bodies were separated? (I've only been following this for a couple of months).

The bodies being found in separate locations is very interesting to me. And I think quite significant to figuring out who did this.

Not only 'why were SD and RD separated', but 'why was RD left in the house when he could have been dumped into the water just like SD'?

The only reasons I can think of for separation is that SD was either kept alive for a while/days at a different location on purpose, or that SD had some major incriminating clues on her body which needed to be erased, hence the disposal by water.

Still doesn't answer why RD was left in the house to be found. Why not put him in the water as well. Makes no sense to me as to why he was obviously left for discovery.


JMO.

(eta clarify bodies separated, not that they were separated or divorced!)

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Not sure when exactly this article was written, but....
And I believe SS said there was only a tiny bit of GSR found on RD's t-shirt?
In any case, seems there are issues with identifying GSR and coming to conclusions based on its presence.

"When a gun is fired, the gunshot residue particles - small particles produced during the gunpowder explosions - are emitted from the back of the weapon and the muzzle. These particles fly onto the skin and clothing of the person holding the gun.
....
If the lab technicians find GSR, it can come from anywhere. Police take the view that if you haven’t just left the firing range, you fired the murder weapon. This argument holds great weight if you live in a society where guns are rare, such as Singapore or Japan. If you live in other places in the world, including the United States, that argument means nothing.
GSR lasts nearly forever. It can land on anything and stay there indefinitely. .... It is human nature to see what you want to see, and the police want to see that which will solve the crime.
....
Is the count 20 or less? An individual can get that by coming in contact with the police or other people.
....
If the particles are not spheroid shaped, this may also be proof that the residue comes from brake linings and thus is not GSR.
....
Did police officers take any steps to prevent cross contamination? Did they wash their hands? Did they clean their cars?"

Gun Shot Residue Testing - Is it Still a Viable Form of Physical Evidence?

And a tech would kniw the different of not spherical.... Still why is it in the autopsy report" no soot or gsr "

 

[deugirtni]

And a tech would kniw the different of not spherical.... Still why is it in the autopsy report" no soot or gsr "

Because he said: "No soot or gunpowder was noted by visual inspection of the body." Keyword = body. SS says it was on his t-shirt. The t-shirt would've (presumably/hopefully) been sent to their forensics lab.

 

[TJtennispro]

I really appreciate the support folks. Just trying to help. Here is some updated info between s discussion I had with the lake house owner my friend last night.


Back in July 2017 the boat was parked here before we slowly drifted towards the compass to back flip off the pontoon boat. That's when the story came out about a head being potentially in the water. Then the entire story came out. We then drove the boat to the back of the house via boat in Reynolds plantation.


I spoke to my friend last night and he said google maps and Apple maps are not showing the lake as it looks when you're on it. Rock Island is in the picture. Everything is in the picture. Nothing from my end changes except I'm now putting coordinates for the boat because that's irrefutable.

Regardless nothing I've said or been told changes. This crime happened by water or helicopter. I've seen helicopters regularly at Lake Burton but never at Oconee. So boat is definitely how it happened.

The reason the fishermen said what they did is because you can't drive a boat with a inboard motor or outboard motor further towards the compass without standing timber's making your life trouble. It's not necessarily shallow but it's completely inaccessible except via Airboat like you would see in the Everglades.

I'm not a topography expert and I've said that from the beginning. I said in the podcast that I'm also terrible with directions. I'm a professional tennis player that took an interest in this case. I posted a map to help out someone asking questions I never would've posted one otherwise.

Hopefully the podcast brings in new tips.

Just wanted you to know I really appreciate all the info you've posted on this case. And, I enjoyed your comments on the podcast. Looking forward to more info (and any/all video) you can share.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Because he said: "No soot or gunpowder was noted by visual inspection of the body." Keyword = body. SS says it was on his t-shirt. The t-shirt would've (presumably/hopefully) been sent to their forensics lab.

Thanks

 

[TJtennispro]

Additional picture

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Here's something SS mentioned in the last podcast we need to focus on, well one of the things. He ( SS ) has something the killers left behind now what could that be? I'm trying to concentrate on the evidence SS says he has.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Also the 2 people he thinks had something to do with this refused polygraphs which doesn't concern me much but what he hinted at was 1 of them was questioned by law enforcement in their area. This tells me the person is either out of state or not in Putnam county.

 

[TJtennispro]

It’s got to be something either found with SD body or with RD body. My bet is on SD since he was very adamant in the interview posted a few days ago about not giving the GPS coordinates of the SD location.

The only other thing it could be is that he does actually know the location they were both killed because he has found that location but not told us.

MOO

Here's something SS mentioned in the last podcast we need to focus on, well one of the things. He ( SS ) has something the killers left behind now what could that be? I'm trying to concentrate on the evidence SS says he has.

 

[watcher9]

Additional picture

Thanks for posting this map.
I had always thought the location was nearer to the shore. This location gives a new perspective and looks like they may have just dropped her off as they were boating downstream.
I noticed that this map shows the varying colors of blue in the water which may be the different depths. Is the white spot at the shore the landing?
Could the map be adjusted to include where the Dermond property is in comparison to where the body was located?

 

[TJtennispro]

This is the location of the boat. The owner was able to pull the GPS coordinates from the navigational system. My iPhone can tell anyone with a my code exactly where I’ve been and when. It’s very creepy when I discovered this 4 or 5 years ago but it’s never wrong.

Anyway yes the body was discovered closer to the shore/tree line the boat I was on motor won’t allow us to get that class to the shore or tree line.

Here is a map of the house location compared to the GPS coordinates of the boat. I’m currently riding in the car. So this is currently the best I can do.

Thanks for posting this map.
I had always thought the location was nearer to the shore. This location gives a new perspective and looks like they may have just dropped her off as they were boating downstream.
I noticed that this map shows the varying colors of blue in the water which may be the different depths. Is the white spot at the shore the landing?
Could the map be adjusted to include where the Dermond property is in comparison to where the body was located?

 

[TJtennispro]

Here is a picture of the tools Putnam County has available for marine duty. I imagine they had to use an aluminum deplorable boat to get to where the body was found once arriving by one of the other boats they own.

Doesn’t look like they’ve got an Airboat

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Also the 2 people he thinks had something to do with this refused polygraphs which doesn't concern me much but what he hinted at was 1 of them was questioned by law enforcement in their area. This tells me the person is either out of state or not in Putnam county.

IM getting so far behind.........hockey was this on the Levi and Tricias podcast? I rmember there was a few more details than what we knew but nothing incriminating on any one person. Is there a third Podcast out yet?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Additional picture

Fineprint, what information do you have on this? I dont have her in the middle of the lake and accord to the PH podcast she was up above this closer to the bend, well below it but at the river split on the edge of a tree line, trees arent in the middle of the lake

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Here's something SS mentioned in the last podcast we need to focus on, well one of the things. He ( SS ) has something the killers left behind now what could that be? I'm trying to concentrate on the evidence SS says he has.

well the towels belonged to the D's IIRC...........

Did they leave behind a FOOTPRINT? In blood? Toe print of the shoe? I keep wondering how they got out of there or atleast the one who did the gory deed, without stepping in blood when smearing it all over the garage floor, I mean seriously , how long were his arms? Was there a stick or mop in the garage or house they retrieved ?

knife? mask? glove? The last two would have DNAor hairs and if the perps arent in the database then they wont be caught but if it was someone close to the D's, family specifically, SS could request DNA testing to look for a match? Or does he have to have probalby cause? I mean everyone is a POI I'd imagine but not everyone is a suspect

Also, the hairs on SD autopsy were listed as gray
The hairs in BOTH OF RD"s hands were listed on his autopsy as BLOND

why the difference? I know SD seemed to have blonde hair in pics, due to being dyed not doubt so maybe he pulled on the ends out

Maybe the coroner went with the root and underneath color on SD ? Youd think he would have said blond and gray though

So maybe SS is referring to the fact they left behind their blond hair?? Maybe not shirleys? IF not, he could test the blondes in the family or "friends"?


Just brainstorming, trying to catch up