GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[TJtennispro]

Please read my post instead of just assuming. That dot is not a tree. That dot is the boat I was on. It’s a point of my personal reference since I’ve got GPS coordinates.

The location the body was found, Rock Island and the boat are all on the map. I’ve marked everything but Rock Island over the past few weeks. Rock Island is easy to spot and it’s not actually an island.

If you disagree then that’s fine but you can’t diagree about where the boat I was on was located.

If you know people that were on the lake that day and have some eyes on experience then please let us know so we can help this investigation along.

Fineprint, what information do you have on this? I dont have her in the middle of the lake and accord to the PH podcast she was up above this closer to the bend, well below it but at the river split on the edge of a tree line, trees arent in the middle of the lake

 

[watcher9]

This is the location of the boat. The owner was able to pull the GPS coordinates from the navigational system. My iPhone can tell anyone with a my code exactly where I’ve been and when. It’s very creepy when I discovered this 4 or 5 years ago but it’s never wrong.

Anyway yes the body was discovered closer to the shore/tree line the boat I was on motor won’t allow us to get that class to the shore or tree line.

Here is a map of the house location compared to the GPS coordinates of the boat. I’m currently riding in the car. So this is currently the best I can do.

Thank you for this map. Just what I wanted! And more!
It magnifies how far the boat would have had to travel before dumping her. Just before the lake really narrows (which I assume is where the dam is). Why carry her that far? Was she still alive? Were they trying to get some info from her? I would think it would almost have to rule out a dinghy-type boat because someone could have reported seeing her in the boat. Even with a bigger boat someone would have seen her unless they had her down on the floorboard?
Your map also shows how your car would have driven down there. It made me think of what if they did drive her out? Trying to get some info from her (to maybe hit an ATM) but decided to kill her instead and driving down to where they had a boat, maybe at their house? Then, they would just take her out in their boat, dump her and get back to their dock very quickly? They could have had the rope, cement blocks and laundry bag at their place.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

What is a "RELEASE" on clerk of court by WElls Fargo?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Thank you for this map. Just what I wanted! And more!
It magnifies how far the boat would have had to travel before dumping her. Just before the lake really narrows (which I assume is where the dam is). Why carry her that far? Was she still alive? Were they trying to get some info from her? I would think it would almost have to rule out a dinghy-type boat because someone could have reported seeing her in the boat. Even with a bigger boat someone would have seen her unless they had her down on the floorboard?
Your map also shows how your car would have driven down there. It made me think of what if they did drive her out? Trying to get some info from her (to maybe hit an ATM) but decided to kill her instead and driving down to where they had a boat, maybe at their house? Then, they would just take her out in their boat, dump her and get back to their dock very quickly? They could have had the rope, cement blocks and laundry bag at their place.

Watcher9 The lakes have no street lights, IIRC there was no moonlight that night too. IT IS VERY Dark, no one is paying attention to night boaters, they are fishermen

No you cant use a dingy 5-6 miles, well you CAN but slow going, even in a regular boat with good sized engine, it takes longer than a regular car ride from my experience on lakes.

I dont think they'd risk that, even with her covered up with tarp at night with no moonlight

Ive said before, pontoon is the way to go, I still dont know the exact location or which tree line area she was in

I only know what SS said, it was 5 miles south,(a few years later he said 6 miles) past the bend, near the split in the river where one side goes to the Hotel, he also said it was not AT the dam

They clearly wanted RD found but not right away.........

MY same line of thinking goes with SD, if they'd dumped her at home, it would have been too suspicious and would have looked at family a little closer

SInce she was so far away, a kidnap victim, it slowed things down

THEY did NOT want her found right away either is my line of thinking

 

[watcher9]

I was thinking daytime, Saturday morning perhaps?

Looking at the distance on the river they would have had to travel, even if it were a pontoon boat, it would have taken quite a bit of time in which there would have been a chance of being noticed or stopped by the wardens, etc, especially if there were not many boaters out there. Also, the boat would have been at the Dermonds' dock for a time while they worked on RD and could have been noticed. How would they know if the neighbors were home or not?

And that thought brings up another thought of what did they do with SD while they were beheading RD?

So now I'm leaning more toward a vehicle. The killers could have taken SD by vehicle maybe in the trunk to the killers' home to get the killers' boat which they used to transport SD out onto the river and then to dump her away from the killers' house so she couldn't be found or connected to them. Then they could bring their boat back home and take the time to clean it up. I used the plural form but it could have been just one person.

 

[watcher9]

What is a "RELEASE" on clerk of court by WElls Fargo?

Not sure but it could have to do with a mortgage, loan, foreclosure or lawsuit. Not posting a link because it would show someone's name but this involved Wells Fargo as an appellant.

The agreement also contained a clause in which the parties purported to release each other from any causes of action in law or in equity that arose before the agreement.

 

[Seattle1]

well the towels belonged to the D's IIRC...........

Did they leave behind a FOOTPRINT? In blood? Toe print of the shoe? I keep wondering how they got out of there or atleast the one who did the gory deed, without stepping in blood when smearing it all over the garage floor, I mean seriously , how long were his arms? Was there a stick or mop in the garage or house they retrieved ?

knife? mask? glove? The last two would have DNAor hairs and if the perps arent in the database then they wont be caught but if it was someone close to the D's, family specifically, SS could request DNA testing to look for a match? Or does he have to have probalby cause? I mean everyone is a POI I'd imagine but not everyone is a suspect

Also, the hairs on SD autopsy were listed as gray
The hairs in BOTH OF RD"s hands were listed on his autopsy as BLOND

why the difference? I know SD seemed to have blonde hair in pics, due to being dyed not doubt so maybe he pulled on the ends out

Maybe the coroner went with the root and underneath color on SD ? Youd think he would have said blond and gray though

So maybe SS is referring to the fact they left behind their blond hair?? Maybe not shirleys? IF not, he could test the blondes in the family or "friends"?


Just brainstorming, trying to catch up

Wasn't it revealed earlier that hair in RD's hand identified as belonging to SD? I think Sheriff revealed this in podcast.... MOO

 

[TJtennispro]

A release involving a bank like that would generally be from a judgment made in court. Sometimes that can be a default judgment. Huge pain in the butt.

It depends on the dollar amount. Was this s small claims suit? Under 15K? If it’s small claims I can explain exactly what happens otherwise I’m not sure.

Not sure but it could have to do with a mortgage, loan, foreclosure or lawsuit. Not posting a link because it would show someone's name but this involved Wells Fargo as an appellant.

The agreement also contained a clause in which the parties purported to release each other from any causes of action in law or in equity that arose before the agreement.

 

[TJtennispro]

I promise you this didn’t happen where the river splits to go towards the hotel. These are pictures of the Ritz at Night before a storm, fireworks from 2017 and my back is facing Ritz in the other picture. I’ve got better ones but they include my wife and friends and I don’t think that would be appropriate.

This lake house has a perfect direct view of the hotel so even if SS said that at one point they would’ve known. Everyone on the lake knows. Why nobody that lives their posts is odd. @Levi or @Tricia did y’all interview any just normal neighbors on your trip?

The agreement also contained a clause in which the parties purported to release each other from any causes of action in law or in equity that arose before the agreement.[/QUOTE]

Watcher9 The lakes have no street lights, IIRC there was no moonlight that night too. IT IS VERY Dark, no one is paying attention to night boaters, they are fishermen

No you cant use a dingy 5-6 miles, well you CAN but slow going, even in a regular boat with good sized engine, it takes longer than a regular car ride from my experience on lakes.

I dont think they'd risk that, even with her covered up with tarp at night with no moonlight

Ive said before, pontoon is the way to go, I still dont know the exact location or which tree line area she was in

I only know what SS said, it was 5 miles south,(a few years later he said 6 miles) past the bend, near the split in the river where one side goes to the Hotel, he also said it was not AT the dam

They clearly wanted RD found but not right away.........

MY same line of thinking goes with SD, if they'd dumped her at home, it would have been too suspicious and would have looked at family a little closer

SInce she was so far away, a kidnap victim, it slowed things down

THEY did NOT want her found right away either is my line of thinking

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

oh sorry, my bad

and No, they dont typcally bother anyone except on the busy holidays where they are staked out watching or unless they see kids looking suspicious or too many on a boat with no life jackets, well thats my experience or what Ive seen on the Sinclair side but probalby the same or less at Oconee is my guess, that time of year isnt busy yet

I think like HOckeyguy said, someone dropped them off, i think they left by nightfall honestly but that just my opinion, they arent going to hang around in a boat all day at the shoreline

on the lake watcher, its DARK, typically no light posts overhead, just little dock lights, someone on that side can say or not about that area but is really realy dark on the lake at night, you can hear a boat and not know where its at

about knowing about the neighbors, i think they knew a LOT about the dermonds,

They knew they didnt have a ride with someone to the party
they knew the neighbors were gone
they knew the lake wasnt that busy as in mid summer

And Im not leaning towards vehicle

too many people in and out on the roads and risk of getting stopped at the gate

Nightfall and who knows what goes on while we normal folks sleep, you know the freaks come out at night LOL

I was thinking daytime, Saturday morning perhaps?

Looking at the distance on the river they would have had to travel, even if it were a pontoon boat, it would have taken quite a bit of time in which there would have been a chance of being noticed or stopped by the wardens, etc, especially if there were not many boaters out there. Also, the boat would have been at the Dermonds' dock for a time while they worked on RD and could have been noticed. How would they know if the neighbors were home or not?

And that thought brings up another thought of what did they do with SD while they were beheading RD?

So now I'm leaning more toward a vehicle. The killers could have taken SD by vehicle maybe in the trunk to the killers' home to get the killers' boat which they used to transport SD out onto the river and then to dump her away from the killers' house so she couldn't be found or connected to them. Then they could bring their boat back home and take the time to clean it up. I used the plural form but it could have been just one person.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Wasn't it revealed earlier that hair in RD's hand identified as belonging to SD? I think Sheriff revealed this in podcast.... MOO

Thank you, i didnt hear it WASNT but trying to catch up on the podcast

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Not sure but it could have to do with a mortgage, loan, foreclosure or lawsuit. Not posting a link because it would show someone's name but this involved Wells Fargo as an appellant.

The agreement also contained a clause in which the parties purported to release each other from any causes of action in law or in equity that arose before the agreement.

HOW about LIEN, which could be Les Pendins even, however that is spelled but was paid off or caught up, looks like a zero balance now

thank you!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

15 or 20 minutes? 30 max??

I was thinking daytime, Saturday morning perhaps?

Looking at the distance on the river they would have had to travel, even if it were a pontoon boat, it would have taken quite a bit of time in which there would have been a chance of being noticed or stopped by the wardens, etc, especially if there were not many boaters out there. Also, the boat would have been at the Dermonds' dock for a time while they worked on RD and could have been noticed. How would they know if the neighbors were home or not?

And that thought brings up another thought of what did they do with SD while they were beheading RD?

So now I'm leaning more toward a vehicle. The killers could have taken SD by vehicle maybe in the trunk to the killers' home to get the killers' boat which they used to transport SD out onto the river and then to dump her away from the killers' house so she couldn't be found or connected to them. Then they could bring their boat back home and take the time to clean it up. I used the plural form but it could have been just one person.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Watcher, if the lake is calm and very few boaters, then you can pick up speed, if its jam packed, its like being tossed around in a jumping house, you have to go a little slower but now it depends on the boat type, or large or small pontoon

BUt i would guess that in May they could do pretty good speed, at night, middle of the river, but at night speed or time doesnt matter I would suppose, no one is out there

They knew, they probably exited at Lawrence shoals before 10 if it closes then,someone pointed out

at night going down to the docks, no one would have noticed, well NO ONE DID notice, whether by car or boat

SS reiterated that they had no neighbors, i ve been saying for years, they are on a cul de sac lot, with one neighbor who was in asia

The cops scowered the adjacent LOTS looking for her or his head

 

[Jabarn]

Cold case killings of Montana couple solved after 45 years using DNA evidence

Just wondering if DNA was found and if there is evidence to connect the killer(s) to similar crimes. It seems the motive is the missing piece.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Cold case killings of Montana couple solved after 45 years using DNA evidence

Just wondering if DNA was found and if there is evidence to connect the killer(s) to similar crimes. It seems the motive is the missing piece.

SS has said in interviews there IS all sorts of DNA and then has said he has NONE in others, unless what he had didnt pan out, I dont know what else that would imply.

I know they dusted the house very thoroughly for prints anyway

Yes, no motive here, it is said, it's not family, not friends and SD had only one cousin living

So puzzling

 

[kay74]

SS has said in interviews there IS all sorts of DNA and then has said he has NONE in others, unless what he had didnt pan out, I dont know what else that would imply.

I know they dusted the house very thoroughly for prints anyway

Yes, no motive here, it is said, it's not family, not friends and SD had only one cousin living

So puzzling

dancin, all I can think of, has it been mentioned if lawncare was being done that Friday because maybe RD yelled at someone and the guy got ticked off and attacked him and then SD. When we had an HOA and the lawn people were there, I always made sure the doors were locked. Just something I always thought of about the D's. Remember RD was a business owner, so he was probably assertive with people.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

dancin, all I can think of, has it been mentioned if lawncare was being done that Friday because maybe RD yelled at someone and the guy got ticked off and attacked him and then SD. When we had an HOA and the lawn people were there, I always made sure the doors were locked. Just something I always thought of about the D's. Remember RD was a business owner, so he was probably assertive with people.

Hey Kay.........it was always told they didnt have a lawn maintenance team but I do remember that the neighbors in Asia had a lawn crew there that saturday and said they heard loud voices coming from the D's house.............

You can look at RD picture and see it in his eyes, he's no nonsense, or can be for sure

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

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[dancinunderthemoon]

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