GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[LayzeeDayzee]

IMO, I don't think it would have been golf club that was used, it just doesn't seem like a very efficient weapon to use. You have a long skinny shaft and the end/head of a golf club would have to make exact contact with the victim's head. IMO, a killer would use an item where they'd have much more control over making good, disabling/fatal contact with the head (not a long golf club where there's a good chance you could swing and miss)........like a crowbar, small shovel or any number of tools or gardening implements that most people would have on hand in their garage. Even a tire iron.

 

[Hickory Born]

It is still haunting me about their home being so clean and "immaculate" according to Sheriff Sills. We have been told they did not have outside cleaning help. Will somebody please tell me how Mr. or Mrs. D cleaned all those floor to ceiling windows on the back of their house which faces the lake?

 

[Yoda]

What about on the trailer? Any tools that raise and lower the third wheel support?

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Good thinking. There are long removable hitches, trailer cranks...

 

[gngr~snap]

They would say a specific weapon based on forensics. They have an pattern consistent with a crow bar.

Link didn't work.
I didn't want to link article because it has some bad injury pictures. I was trying to isolate that one pic, which was no gory.
Moo
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[Solitaryone]

:floorlaugh:

There is a little part of me that thinks MR D was decapitated to make it seems like a cult did it.
Like maybe this randomness is a little forced.
I could be wrong.

I totally agree!

 

[Hickory Born]

Jumping off your post, I think the murderers came prepared with the tools they needed. IMO, these killings were deliberate, well planned out, vengeful and appeared to have some degree of sophistication. I also think RD was the target and SD was secondary so there were no witnesses. The murderers are trying to send a message to someone, either personally related or as an example.

IMOO, if this was to be viewed as an example, the Dermonds were selected because of their age, inability to effectively fight back, seclusion of their residence, access to water (perfect ingress/egress), low probability of being caught in the act, and due to the gruesomeness of the crime, a large amount of media coverage.

IMO, the murderers had prior knowledge of the waterway, security, boating; came prepared; and robbery was not the motive. As a smart poster on the previous thread mentioned, the perpetrators may have used the golf course and Ritz Hotel as a ruse to further implement their plan. Sophisticated killers can pass themselves off as just that and not arouse suspicion. JMV

The Ritz Hotel is not in that neighborhood. It is on the other side of the lake in Greensboro, Greene County.

 

[tlcya]

The GBI Crime Lab will perform an autopsy on the body to determine a cause of death. There were no glaring signs of trauma to the body, Sills told reporters.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/authorities-return-to-lake-where-missing-eatonton-/nfydM/ So I take from this initial visual examination by those on the scene did not see any signs of obvious (glaring is teh word used by Sills) trauma to the body (which includes the head IMO) that could be attributed immediately to assault rather than effects of being in the lake or decomp.

then we have this info from post ME exam

UPDATE: Shirley Dermond, the 87-year-old Eatonton woman whose body was pulled from Lake Oconee Friday afternoon, died of blunt force trauma to the head, Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. She did not drown and she was not alive when she was put in the water, he said.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/authorities-return-to-lake-where-missing-eatonton-/nfydM/

YES! this is what I have been looking for and was unable to view at the time they aired.

sheriff Sills on May 8th regarding Mr. Dermond while Mrs. Dermon was still missing

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/raw-video-putnam-co-sheriff-on-murder-kidnapping/vCZfMx/

on May 16 Sheriff Sills speaks about the body later positively ID'd as Shirley Dermond

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Y-6UFV_jI

still no luck finding where the sheriff himself says they are searching for a crowbar or crowbar type implement. That is not to say a crowbar is not the item they seek as the murder weapon, just that I was really wanting to find video of the sheriff stating that and was unable.

If someone comes across such a video or a direct quote regarding a crowbar from Sheriff Sill could you please let me know? please and thanks.

 

[gngr~snap]

:floorlaugh:

There is a little part of me that thinks MR D was decapitated to make it seems like a cult did it.
Like maybe this randomness is a little forced.
I could be wrong.

I think it just MIGHT be because it was a rage killing/over kill. Where he started beating the old man and didn't stop until he was worn out.
I think he what he did to the old man was so bad even he was ashamed of himself. He decapitated the man to hide the fact he is an animal. In the back of his head he knows he'll get caught and there is someone he doesn't want knowing what evil he is capable of.- beyond decapitation.

Or he wanted it to appear cartel, cult members were responsible. Moo


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[Canaille]

Interesting read about the case.

Ga. killings 'a crime that can be solved,' former FBI profiler says

http://www.arcamax.com/currentnews/newsheadlines/s-1524806?fs

Maybe I misread the article, but I noticed it was mentioned about reviewing the adult children, yet no mention of reviewing any adult grandchildren.

 

[tlcya]

I think the two main theories I have seen put forth on the decapitation that feel most likely to me at this time are to horrify someone associated with the Dermonds or to deflect fro the actual reason for the killing by making it look like a sort of crime it wasn't (ie. mob or cartel hit, bizarre random sociopath or cultcrazed random group killing)

I think it less likely that the head was removed to hide physical evidence such as dna of perp via a bite wound. If the perp was bitten and was concerned about evidence, he should have been more concerned about the bite pattern to his own person or the possible infection to be had which may require treatment by a medical professional.

I am also not as fond of this theory personally because of the possiblity at Mr. D's more advanced age that he wore dentures. IF he did wear dentures it would be so much easier to simply remove the dentures and not his entire head. So that question being answered would help in figuring out if this is even a good line to continue down.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

It is still haunting me about their home being so clean and "immaculate" according to Sheriff Sills. We have been told they did not have outside cleaning help. Will somebody please tell me how Mr. or Mrs. D cleaned all those floor to ceiling windows on the back of their house which faces the lake?

My guess is that Sills was moreso referring to the inside of the house; everything being neat and tidy and orderly, nothing out of place.......and somewhat not what you'd expect to find inside the home of 2 murder victims (you'd expect to see things out of place, things strewn, knocked over, cupboard doors and drawers opened, etc).

IMO I don't believe the killers ever entered the actual house which may have been their plan......to lessen the chances of leaving any forensic evidence. Would have been very easy to lure them both outside...particularly if even one of the killers was someone known to either one or both of the Dermonds.......all they'd have to do is ring the doorbell and make up some story about needing help with something down near the boat dock, etc...Mr Dermond leaves to help........doesn't return and Mrs D gets concerned and goes outside to look for him and the killers get her there........IMO.

 

[eddie willers]

Maybe I misread the article, but I noticed it was mentioned about reviewing the adult children, yet no mention of reviewing any adult grandchildren.

You brought up a point I was thinking about last night when I read an article that mentioned one of the grandsons was in college.

I think we are so used to thinking only "children" because grandchildren are usually too young. But when the couple is 87/88, there could be many grandchildren "of age".

I sure hope they are looking hard there.

 

[Eileen730]

Maybe I misread the article, but I noticed it was mentioned about reviewing the adult children, yet no mention of reviewing any adult grandchildren.

Well Someone can have some kind of a problem with one of their children.
Like a if u don't do this for me ill kill your parents then I move on to your
wife and children.

To me this killing is personal and not that a family member did the killing but that the family member might be in some trouble too. Were any phone calls received by any family members?

 

[Rhyolite]

The GBI Crime Lab will perform an autopsy on the body to determine a cause of death. There were no glaring signs of trauma to the body, Sills told reporters.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/authorities-return-to-lake-where-missing-eatonton-/nfydM/ So I take from this initial visual examination by those on the scene did not see any signs of obvious (glaring is teh word used by Sills) trauma to the body (which includes the head IMO) that could be attributed immediately to assault rather than effects of being in the lake or decomp.

then we have this info from post ME exam

UPDATE: Shirley Dermond, the 87-year-old Eatonton woman whose body was pulled from Lake Oconee Friday afternoon, died of blunt force trauma to the head, Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. She did not drown and she was not alive when she was put in the water, he said.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/authorities-return-to-lake-where-missing-eatonton-/nfydM/

YES! this is what I have been looking for and was unable to view at the time they aired.

sheriff Sills on May 8th regarding Mr. Dermond while Mrs. Dermon was still missing

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/raw-video-putnam-co-sheriff-on-murder-kidnapping/vCZfMx/

on May 16 Sheriff Sills speaks about the body later positively ID'd as Shirley Dermond

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Y-6UFV_jI

still no luck finding where the sheriff himself says they are searching for a crowbar or crowbar type implement. That is not to say a crowbar is not the item they seek as the murder weapon, just that I was really wanting to find video of the sheriff stating that and was unable.

If someone comes across such a video or a direct quote regarding a crowbar from Sheriff Sill could you please let me know? please and thanks.

Maybe the victims were banged against an object like driveway pavers or a garage door frame?

 

[momrids6]

It is still haunting me about their home being so clean and "immaculate" according to Sheriff Sills. We have been told they did not have outside cleaning help. Will somebody please tell me how Mr. or Mrs. D cleaned all those floor to ceiling windows on the back of their house which faces the lake?

Most likely, someone was hired to do them.

 

[Zuri]

The Ritz Hotel is not in that neighborhood. It is on the other side of the lake in Greensboro, Greene County.

IIRC, the guests of the Ritz could use the golf course along with members and their guests? The green fees were pretty high too IIRC.

 

[eddie willers]

As mentioned earlier, they may be zeroing in on a crowbar (also known as pry bar, wrecking bar) because they are not normally cylindrical, but made from a rectangular peice of iron.

Here's a picture:

The odds of one being in the Dermond's garage is 90%.
That it is easily acquired is 100%.


BTW... 87% of statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[Irisha]

I think it just MIGHT be because it was a rage killing/over kill. Where he started beating the old man and didn't stop until he was worn out.
I think he what he did to the old man was so bad even he was ashamed of himself. He decapitated the man to hide the fact he is an animal. In the back of his head he knows he'll get caught and there is someone he doesn't want knowing what evil he is capable of.- beyond decapitation.

Or he wanted it to appear cartel, cult members were responsible. Moo


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I must have missed it( watching a movie) who is "he"? A person off the street? No offense but the person you speak of is vile and sick,( not that this killer isn't but,) and couldn't leave a "clean" scene and make a statement that this person has. Who is "he"?


ETA: time to eat homemade Taco Soup, starving. bbl

 

[gngr~snap]

Ok here is an example - of skull fractures.
Linear, depressed and compound/open.

If hit with a golf club a depressed fracture might be the result. A deep pitting in the skull.
If hit with a crow bar, tire iron or something similar a compound/ open fracture might result.
It depends on which part is being used to hit he victim.
If it is the bend, the injuries wouldn't be as bad and a depressed fracture could occur. If the end was being used it would likely enter the skull breaking it open.

Almost he same as if you were to hit dry wall.
Golf club- round depression.
Tire iron,crow bar if the using the end it would tear into wall.

http://www.epainassist.com/images/Article-Images/Skull-Fracture.jpg

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[Razz]

I live in rural ga. I work in agriculture. I hunt and fish and have all my life. I have been in oconee, Sinclair, Blackshear, hartwell, and Clark's hill all my life. I have lived above the Fall and below it......gators do not abound above it....they do below it.......


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OMB: I think there has been some miscommunication
here. I thought you were tweaking me about my question
3 days ago "are there gators in the lake". I had an answer w/in
2 minutes and I was satisfied that there weren't. But someone
ran w/it thinking I thought the gator had beheaded Russell.
But had this person been reading.previous threads, he/she would
have.known that I did not.. So that "gator" story took on a life of its own.
That's why I get frustrated when people jump in before reading
all the threads. Geez.

the threads.