Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[IceIce9]

Gene Hackman's Family Friend Says Late Actor's Health 'Was Really Slipping' Over the 'Last Couple Months' (Exclusive)

Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa's family friends spoke exclusively to PEOPLE about the late couple's health before their recent deaths, noting that the Oscar-winning actor's health began to decline in the last couple of months.

people.com

So his heath had declined in recent months, if she died before him he likely wouldn’t be able to care for himself or get himself off the floor if he fell.

 

[ttjo]

What they are saying here is that there was no apparent injury occasioned by a fall that would have been fatal.
Not that they didn't fall.

I agree, it was LE that said it looked like there was a sudden fall which was based on the surroundings, the heater was on the ground and the scattered pills , and for Gene, glasses and cane nearby, and just the fact that he was on the ground suggested a fall, not that it was what killed either one of them .

 

[Cedars]

A bit unusual in her case, but not in the case of a 95 year old. But we don’t know a thing about her health history. Did she have heart problems? A history of blood clots? High blood pressure? Etc. many things that could contribute to a sudden death.

That is why I think maybe she died first, he fell, then unable to get up without her help suffered a cardiac event.

It is possible, certainly.

 

[Sphinx]

<modsnip>

There was no blunt force trauma or evidence of strangulation or bodily harm on either of their bodies, the police have ruled out foul play, there was nothing stolen or evidence anyone had been rifling through their possessions/drawers to find money or jewellery or anything, an intruder/burglar being responsible for their deaths is something I would offer 1000000-1 odds on if I was a bookmaker

I hear you, but until the autopsy is completed they cannot rule out strangulation, or even suffocation. Perhaps a hyoid bone in the neck will be fractured, an indication of strangulation.

I would just like to say that an elderly single female neighbour of mine, who lives alone in a good neigbourhood, was very startled to find a young man in her bathroom rummaging through her medicine cabinet, opening her pill bottles. She screamed, and he fortunately ran out. I think she left her back door unlocked, so there were no signs of forced entry. Apparently this is far too common.

One possibility is that a neigbourhood kid, who was looking for drugs thought an elderly wealthy couple might have pain killers in the house that he could steal. I hope the police look for fingerprints on the pills, and the pill bottles. Perhaps there was a struggle upsetting the heater, and she died from hitting her head on the sink or counter, or he could have put his arm around her neck, shutting her airway off, until she died, when he meant to render her unconscious so he could get away. They show this technique too much on tv in crime shows. It would not leave much of a mark on the neck, and might not even break that tell tale neckbone. All speculation on my part, but because that happened in my neighbourhood, it just got me thinking.
Gene might have come back from a walk, found his wife dead in the bathroom, or the intruder knocked him over when he fled, and Gene had a heart attack in the mudroom, from the extreme stress.
With them both dead, there was no one to take the dog out of the dog crate, and he could have died from lack of water and food.
IMO

 

[ttjo]

I am waiting to see if he had a broken hip, b/c even at 95 with a cane, I still think he was just tough enough to fight his way up.
Something stopped him, broken hip? heart? If it was something that required her help and she wasnt around?
With betsy, something made her scatter those pills, a medical event? couldnt just be nerves or she wouldnt have been found in the bathroom. she would have made her way back to Gene to help him.
Either way it feels like one died, and the other was aware and frantic or Gene died waiting for Betsy to come back.

 

[Micheline]

I think it could have been natural causes.

If Betsy died first Gene could have been outdoors at the time and fallen when he came inside. Without Betsy to help him he might not have been able to get up from the floor, or he could have suffered sudden cardiac arrest. It’s not hard to imagine that a 95 year old man could have suffered death by natural causes.

The two dogs that were able to freely move about the home and outdoors would have survived. The dog that was either in a cage, crate, kennel, or closet was unable to get to food or water.

All JMO

Betsy suddenly died while taking her meds? People drop dead instantly rarely imo.
And then followed by her husbands sudden death without either one being able to call for help. It makes me sad to even discuss this, but its so odd.

I can imagine it being hard for him to survive if anything were to happen to his wife. But if he would not be able to call for help in such a case there are ways to enable someone by just pressing a bottom or carry one in case of an emergency if his wife were to go shopping.

Something literally happened to her while taking her medication. Or the meds had no relation to her condition, she just took her daily statins (or was getting her husbands daily medication) and got unwell while opening the box, completely unrelated. I guess its possible. Very sad.

 

[Micheline]

Reporter | 00:09:15
Were you able to determine whether they fell or not? Was there any trauma evidence on the bodies to suggest a fall?

Sheriff Adan Mendoza | 00:09:28
No, I don’t think there was any indication of that. Again, there was no trauma indicated on the body. I'm assuming if they would have fallen or injured themselves, or if there was a head injury or brain injury, that would have been discovered by the pathologist.

source

But both must have fallen?

 

[ttjo]

It might help to know whose blood pressure pills those were. Was she taking them for herself or was she going to help him ?.

 

[Cherwell]

Betsy suddenly died while taking her meds? People drop dead instantly rarely imo

But they do. A neighbour of mine dropped dead from a pulmonary embolism a few months ago. No warning at all.

 

[ClearAhead]

Didn't the Sheriff state there was no cctv on the estate or in the house?

This may’ve referred to the Hackmans not having private CCTV but nothing has been reported regarding security measures within the gated community.

 

[Micheline]

These articles...
Gene Hackman and his wife were obviously still very much in love, their story was very beautiful. How many people with such an age difference would still feel that way and prefer to be in each others company mostly.
It makes me sad, Gene even when very old still looked good, and holding his wife's arm. I hope this is a rare case of two people passing suddenly. Very touching.

 

[Micheline]

It might help to know whose blood pressure pills those were. Was she taking them for herself or was she going to help him ?.

She took 3 sorts of pills, probably for him, morning routine. IMO

 

[Knox]

Barbara also told PEOPLE that “Betsy was in perfect health” and “was so fit.”

Gene Hackman's Family Friend Says Late Actor's Health 'Was Really Slipping' Over the 'Last Couple Months' (Exclusive)

Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa's family friends spoke exclusively to PEOPLE about the late couple's health before their recent deaths, noting that the Oscar-winning actor's health began to decline in the last couple of months.

people.com

 

[ClearAhead]

I did post this on the other thread.
Any bruising caused by a fall would be camouflaged by post-mortem lividity.
Blood stops circulating after death and in a process called hypostasis, it will settle in the lowest parts of the body.
So when someone has fallen and died where they fell, there wll be discolouration of the parts touching the ground.

What they are saying here is that there was no apparent injury occasioned by a fall that would have been fatal.
Not that they didn't fall.

Makes sense to me, there was NO indication falling was the cause of death in either of them. An example of trauma related to falling is hitting one’s head causing a brain injury, however officials have ruled this out.

 

[Sarahlou]

But they do. A neighbour of mine dropped dead from a pulmonary embolism a few months ago. No warning at all.

Yep this happened to my friend's dad last year. He was in his 60s, just collapsed and died in the shower.

 

[Luna20]

<modsnip>

There was no blunt force trauma or evidence of strangulation or bodily harm on either of their bodies, the police have ruled out foul play, there was nothing stolen or evidence anyone had been rifling through their possessions/drawers to find money or jewellery or anything, an intruder/burglar being responsible for their deaths is something I would offer 1000000-1 odds on if I was a bookmaker

The police ruled out foul play on the Murdaugh case also and they held that for 9 long months. When that is said this early on, it often means that ‘there isn’t a reason to be afraid of a killer on the loose’ because they know that isn’t the case.

Saying that so quickly when an investigation hasn’t been completed, could mean that they know it is a health issue or an internal homicide.

 

[slowpoke]

This friend of the couple’s words got me thinking. He said,

‘If you knew the love they had for those doggies, they were a huge part of their life,’ he said.

‘Betsy drove a Land Cruiser. Coming down the highway, all you’d see would be four ears of these huge German Shepherds, and beautiful Betsy behind the wheel.

Now, earlier the article says this friend had not seen Gene or Betsy since before the Covid-19 pandemic—so I guess before 2020? But I took notice where he says “you’d see four ears of these huge German Shepherds”. (bbm)
So, if by that he means two dogs (two pairs of ears), I am wondering if the Hackman’s third dog is a newer dog, gotten sometime more recently, that this friend was not familiar with. Could that have been the one in the crate, still a younger pup, and in the crate as part of training?

Just thoughts.

Gene Hackman's friend speaks out on conspiracy theories after deaths

A close friend of Gene Hackman's is speaking out after the actor and his wife were found dead in their home with their dog.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Chimera]

The autopsies are still pending ?

 

[friendlysleuther]

Dr.Heather Jarrell would have conducted a thorough examination of both bodies, including opening them up and closely inspecting them from head-to-toe.
​

She would have been able to assess... (Source)
-If there was bleeding in the brain
-If there was blunt force trauma to the brain (such as a fall or being struck with an object)
-If they had a heart attack, aneurysm, blood clot, infection, & so much more.
---Note: Both individuals tested negative for carbon monoxide. (Source)

"An autopsy was performed. Initial findings noted no external trauma to either individual. The manner and cause of death have not been determined. The official results of the autopsy and toxicology reports are pending." (Source)​

---

One may argue, "the official results aren't ready yet!"

However, a pathologist can (& often will) make a determination on cause and manner of death
before the paperwork is finalized.​

---

IMO, the reasoning for not knowing the cause/ manner of death is because they absolutely could not find anything.
So, that leaves us with... What else could it realistically be?
(If they have to wait on other toxicology /tests in order to determine cause & manner of death?)

it was totally natural, but the true reason may not be ever found. <snipped> A clot, an arrhythmogenic event, a heart attack, an aneurysm, whatnot.
<snipped>

<snipped> Did she have heart problems? A history of blood clots? High blood pressure? Etc. many things that could contribute to a sudden death.
That is why I think maybe she died first, he fell, then unable to get up without her help suffered a cardiac event.

I am waiting to see if he had a broken hip, b/c even at 95 with a cane, I still think he was just tough enough to fight his way up. Something stopped him, broken hip? heart? If it was something that required her help and she wasnt around?
With betsy, something made her scatter those pills, a medical event? <snipped>

 

[formerreddingrunner]

The autopsies are still pending ?

It's my understanding that the autopsy is done fairly quickly after the bodies are found deceased, however the autopsy report is what they are waiting for. AND the toxicology results take months (it's my understanding). So, for the final report (& final cause of death), it includes both the physical examination of the deceased person, and a toxicology report.

They may be testing for all sorts of drugs/substances/poisons. It's my understanding: that takes a while.

they talked about it here