Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[friendlysleuther]

If they had ate something dodgy/been poisoned surely there would be vomit or diarrhoea or something on the floor next to their bodies

Not if the dogs or other bugs/ insects ate it…

 

[priyaya]

Video of Gene spotted enjoying a stroll, clad in a baseball cap, vest and flannel shirt in Santa Fe, New Mexico, on April 5, 2024 less than a year ago.

Looks to me like he was getting around pretty good then. More recent photos show him with a cane. Not sure how much his mobility would have degraded from last April.

JMO

man loves his coffee and boxed Apple Strudel

 

[BrianJohnson]

I think many people always want there to be someone to blame.

I mentioned Cilla elsewhere recently, as there had been discussion at the time as to whether her death was natural causes or accidental. Did the fall cause the stroke, or did she fall because she had suffered a stroke? I can't remember how that ended.

I haven't seen any trustworthy source saying that the crate was definitely closed. Why would it be closed, if the crate was already in a space with a closeable door, be it closet or bathroom? You would just need to shut the door if you wanted to stop the dog from roaming the house.
I can only think of one reason - that the dog had been injured or ill, and was on enforced rest to speed recovery. Poor love.

If I remember rightly Cilla had been drinking quite heavily on her balcony and fell back and hit her head on the wall causing a brain bleed, when she was found there was no visible signs of external injury

 

[priyaya]

If they had ate something dodgy/been poisoned surely there would be vomit or diarrhoea or something on the floor next to their bodies

There may have been it just wasnt mentioned

 

[PrairieWind]

Good point. I've lived in lots of old houses without those safer outlets now required by building codes so I didn't think of that.
MOO

Even if the heater was not plugged into a GFI outlet for some reason, the breaker in the breaker box should have tripped and investigators would see that pretty quickly.

 

[priyaya]

Even if the heater was not plugged into a GFI outlet for some reason, the breaker in the breaker box should have tripped and investigators would see that pretty quickly.

the thing about the heater is why did they mention it at all?

 

[Sunshynn]

the thing about the heater is why did they mention it at all?

It was out of place, imo.
Most people don't place space heaters haphazardly on the floor, like I imagine this one was, since it was mentioned that it looked like it fell during a sudden fall of Betsy.
They also mentioned the pills and the sunglasses - each pretty innocent on their own, but out of place when you look at the big picture.

 

[PrairieWind]

the thing about the heater is why did they mention it at all?

I'm guessing just because it was there. And was noted. It would take a bit of time to rule it out.

 

[NCWatcher]

Even if the heater was not plugged into a GFI outlet for some reason, the breaker in the breaker box should have tripped and investigators would see that pretty quickly.

OK. I do know though that some breakers/brands of breaker boxes are less "responsive" in tripping than is ideal. But it's my understanding this house was built/renovated fairly recently so that sort of thing is probably up to date. At any rate, I really never thought the space heater was BA's cause of death. But if it was, the autopsy should be useful to determine that.
MOO

 

[tomstrees]

To me aerial contamination, a gas leak, makes the most sense, as carbon monoxide seems to have been ruled out. They used natural gas. I hope the toxicology tests are thorough and they should be looking at every possibility. Two people dying at the same approximate time frame just is too much of a coincidence though experts have been trying to explain how that would happen. His wife was reportedly in top notch health; of course almost anyone can experience a fatal event through something internal or through an accident, but that is uncommon to say the least.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

It was out of place, imo.
Most people don't place space heaters haphazardly on the floor, like I imagine this one was, since it was mentioned that it looked like it fell during a sudden fall of Betsy.
They also mentioned the pills and the sunglasses - each pretty innocent on their own, but out of place when you look at the big picture.

Regarding the space heater, has it been mentioned if it was running when LE entered the house? Do we know if it was turned on, plugged in, or not? I imagine a space heater left running unintended for 10 days might be a problem, but admittedly, I have little experience with them.

 

[ttjo]

The fact that he had a wife/partner to take care of him lessened the responsibility and concern the children probably felt. It would be a different story if he was 95 and had no one, the children would then need to be more involved.

exactly.

 

[technicallymissing]

New theory of mine:

1. Gene and Betsy got up in the morning as usual.
2. Their routine was to let the dogs out first (like most dog owners.)
3. Two dogs were not crated or had already been let out of their crates.
4. Betsy went to the bathroom to let the crated dog out.
5. She had a sudden health episode before she could get the dog out.
6. In falling down, perhaps grabbing the counter, she knocked the heater and the pills onto the floor.
7. Gene didn't realize she had collapsed.
8. The dogs were losing their minds because she was being slow, so Gene decided to let them out himself.
9. Because he needed so much physical assistance, letting the dogs out himself might not have been his normal routine without his wife's help.
10. Something caused him to fall (he could even have been knocked down by a hyper dog.)
11. Because of his frailty, it was a fatal fall, either quick or slow.

I think there’s also a decent chance that even if they hadn’t seen her yet the dogs might have sensed something had happened to Betsy. Dogs have way better senses than us and are so intuitive and loyal, probably none more so than German Shepherds. It would have been even easier for one of them to accidentally cause Gene to fall if they were worked up/jumping all over the place trying to get to Betsy.

 

[Sunshynn]

Regarding the space heater, has it been mentioned if it was running when LE entered the house? Do we know if it was turned on, plugged in, or not? I imagine a space heater left running unintended for 10 days might be a problem, but admittedly, I have little experience with them.

The search warrant doesn't say but I would imagine it was unplugged and not running just because it wasn't notated.
It very well could have been, I suppose, but I would think that that would deserve a mention. MOO.

From the warrant:
"After Deputy Thomas entered the residence, he immediately observed a bathroom to the left of the front door. The door to the bathroom was opened..he observed a black in color space heater near the female's head. He advised he suspected the heater could have fallen in the event the female abruptly fell to the ground."

 

[ttjo]

No new information, Just good guests.

 

[erikar]

Hey guys, I was transcribing the 911 call earlier & need some input—-

What is said at #3, below?
(Start at 00:02:00- I’m not home, or I would find the exact timestamp)
​

1. Operator: Are they breathing?​
2. Caller: I have no idea. I'm not inside the house—it's closed, it's locked—I can't go in. But, I see them. She's laying down on the floor from the window.​
3. Caller "Yep, she's gone" [under breath, or talking to other person at scene]​
4. 00:02:18 | 911 Operator Okay, okay. Do they appear to be ….​

​

I made a transcript of the Youtube video with OpenAI Whisper. English is not my native language, so I can't hear the words exactly. Sometimes the AI repeats a small section several times, so it may have a repetition error. Anyway, this is the result it gave:

Hello, my name is Wade. I think we just found two or one deceased person inside a house. What's the address here? There's no address. I'm going to wait for you at the gate. I'm going to wait for you to send somebody real quick. Okay, what's going to be the address? It's going to be one more summit drive down at the gate house. I'll meet you over there. I'll meet them over there. I'm the
caretaker for the subdivision. I'm going to bring them up here. Okay, give me one second. One summer night? One north summit drive. One north summit drive. And what is your name? One north summit drive. My name is Wade. I'm the caretaker for the subdivision. I'll take a phone number for you in case we disconnect. Okay, give me one second. Let me speak with the paramedics. Thank you. One second. Damn, damn.
Are you with the patient now? I'm sorry? Are you with the patient now?
Yeah, I'm over at their property. There's no address here. So I have to meet the ambulance or the police, whoever, down at the gate house. I'll bring them up here.
Okay. How old is the patient? I have no idea. You don't know? Okay, that's fine. Is the patient a male or a female? A female and a male, probably. I don't know. I don't know. So I'll just send somebody up here.
I'll get right to you real quick. Okay. Are they awake? I have no idea. Are they breathing? I have no idea. I'm not inside the house. It's closed. It's locked. I can't go in. But I see that she's laying down from the window. Okay.
Okay. That's good. Okay. Do they appear to be completely awake? On the way?!
On the way? Do they appear to be away?
away or alert? No, no, no, no, no, no, it's not. Okay. Okay. Did you ever hear, did you
hear them talk or cry? No, no. Okay. Okay. Are they moving at all? No, dude, they're
not moving. Just send somebody up here really quick. Okay, my units are on their way, okay?
I'm sorry? My units are on their way right now. Okay, I'll meet them down at the gatehouse
because they might not have a code. Okay. Also, is there any way... Let me tell me that
the cutoff will be cut off with you. Okay. Also, is there any way that you can open the
house or is there like a hidden key so my units can access it? I have no idea. I have
no idea. So the house is closed? The door is closed? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no. Yeah. I'm sorry? I'm on the meeting. Okay, sir, my units are on their way, but
can you confirm the address because I don't have a 1 North Summit Drive. There is a 1
North Summit that's where I work at. Okay. You don't have like the actual address of
the house of where this person lives? I have no idea. There's no address. There's a reason
for that. If you can get around, please. Okay. Okay. What is the closest intersection
for where you're going to wait for my unit?
Okay. Sir, what is the closest intersection that you're going to be...
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hey okay.
It's a 3 ??? Are you going to be on a vehicle waiting for my
unit or you're going to be ... Are you still there?
Are you going to be on a vehicle waiting for my unit or are you going to be on foot?
I'm going down to the gatehouse right now.
To the gatehouse? Okay.
We're probably going to get cut off.
Okay.
What are you wearing so my unit's not with you?
I don't even know.
I'm sorry.
Thank you.
That's fine.
Thank you.
Are you still there?
No.
Okay.
Hello, Ron.
Okay.
.
Oh, my god.
Okay.
Rebecca, where are you?
Yeah.
I'm .
I'm just like, it gets to where the ambulance is coming.
It says the ambulance is coming out here.
Okay. What are you wearing? So my again, it's not you.
I can barely understand you. You're coming in and out.
How come I don't hear anything, ambulance or anything? They're just right down there, Fort Marcy.
Okay, my guess is they're on their way, okay?
Oh yeah, I hear something now.
Okay, just to confirm, is there any way my units can get into the house?
I'm sorry?
Is there any way my units can get into the house?
It's gated.
It's gated? I don't know the code number.
But I could just bring them up to the house.
The way I got in was between these two walls.
I could just bring them up to the house and see if they come in and out all the time.
I'm going to let go.
Okay.
Here comes the unit out here.
All right, thank you for your help. I appreciate you. Bye.
Bye-bye.

 

[friendlysleuther]

thank you! I use something similar, but I go back through and listen as well! (-:

I made a transcript of the Youtube video with OpenAI Whisper. English is not my native language, so I can't hear the words exactly. Sometimes the AI repeats a small section several times, so it may have a repetition error. Anyway, this is the result it gave:

Hello, my name is Wade. I think we just found two or one deceased person inside a house. What's the address here? There's no address. I'm going to wait for you at the gate. I'm going to wait for you to send somebody real quick. Okay, what's going to be the address? It's going to be one more summit drive down at the gate house. I'll meet you over there. I'll meet them over there. I'm the
caretaker for the subdivision. I'm going to bring them up here. Okay, give me one second. One summer night? One north summit drive. One north summit drive. And what is your name? One north summit drive. My name is Wade. I'm the caretaker for the subdivision. I'll take a phone number for you in case we disconnect. Okay, give me one second. Let me speak with the paramedics. Thank you. One second. Damn, damn.
Are you with the patient now? I'm sorry? Are you with the patient now?
Yeah, I'm over at their property. There's no address here. So I have to meet the ambulance or the police, whoever, down at the gate house. I'll bring them up here.
Okay. How old is the patient? I have no idea. You don't know? Okay, that's fine. Is the patient a male or a female? A female and a male, probably. I don't know. I don't know. So I'll just send somebody up here.
I'll get right to you real quick. Okay. Are they awake? I have no idea. Are they breathing? I have no idea. I'm not inside the house. It's closed. It's locked. I can't go in. But I see that she's laying down from the window. Okay.
Okay. That's good. Okay. Do they appear to be completely awake? On the way?!
On the way? Do they appear to be away?
away or alert? No, no, no, no, no, no, it's not. Okay. Okay. Did you ever hear, did you
hear them talk or cry? No, no. Okay. Okay. Are they moving at all? No, dude, they're
not moving. Just send somebody up here really quick. Okay, my units are on their way, okay?
I'm sorry? My units are on their way right now. Okay, I'll meet them down at the gatehouse
because they might not have a code. Okay. Also, is there any way... Let me tell me that
the cutoff will be cut off with you. Okay. Also, is there any way that you can open the
house or is there like a hidden key so my units can access it? I have no idea. I have
no idea. So the house is closed? The door is closed? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no. Yeah. I'm sorry? I'm on the meeting. Okay, sir, my units are on their way, but
can you confirm the address because I don't have a 1 North Summit Drive. There is a 1
North Summit that's where I work at. Okay. You don't have like the actual address of
the house of where this person lives? I have no idea. There's no address. There's a reason
for that. If you can get around, please. Okay. Okay. What is the closest intersection
for where you're going to wait for my unit?
Okay. Sir, what is the closest intersection that you're going to be...
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hey okay.
It's a 3 ??? Are you going to be on a vehicle waiting for my
unit or you're going to be ... Are you still there?
Are you going to be on a vehicle waiting for my unit or are you going to be on foot?
I'm going down to the gatehouse right now.
To the gatehouse? Okay.
We're probably going to get cut off.
Okay.
What are you wearing so my unit's not with you?
I don't even know.
I'm sorry.
Thank you.
That's fine.
Thank you.
Are you still there?
No.
Okay.
Hello, Ron.
Okay.
.
Oh, my god.
Okay.
Rebecca, where are you?
Yeah.
I'm .
I'm just like, it gets to where the ambulance is coming.
It says the ambulance is coming out here.
Okay. What are you wearing? So my again, it's not you.
I can barely understand you. You're coming in and out.
How come I don't hear anything, ambulance or anything? They're just right down there, Fort Marcy.
Okay, my guess is they're on their way, okay?
Oh yeah, I hear something now.
Okay, just to confirm, is there any way my units can get into the house?
I'm sorry?
Is there any way my units can get into the house?
It's gated.
It's gated? I don't know the code number.
But I could just bring them up to the house.
The way I got in was between these two walls.
I could just bring them up to the house and see if they come in and out all the time.
I'm going to let go.
Okay.
Here comes the unit out here.
All right, thank you for your help. I appreciate you. Bye.
Bye-bye.

 

[PrairieWind]

To me aerial contamination, a gas leak, makes the most sense, as carbon monoxide seems to have been ruled out. They used natural gas. I hope the toxicology tests are thorough and they should be looking at every possibility. Two people dying at the same approximate time frame just is too much of a coincidence though experts have been trying to explain how that would happen. His wife was reportedly in top notch health; of course almost anyone can experience a fatal event through something internal or through an accident, but that is uncommon to say the least.

The gas company detected no gas leaks and the autopsy detected no CO toxicity in the bodies. I think we all jumped to that cause first, but those seem to be off the list now. So i think we wait to see if full autopsies are released and if so, what they say.

 

[AggieLou]

For me, the third dog indicates that Becky and Gene were both quickly incapacitated.
At first the death of the dog in the closet made me think the dog ate some of the pills and got sick (was making me think suicide by becky from grief)
but as soon as they mentioned the dog in the crate at the press conference I immediately changed into Becky had a sudden event that made it impossible to care for the dog. there is no way any dog owner would leave an animal in a crate.

What did they say about the dog in crate. Any specifics? I just can't see where this dog stayed in a crate for days and days until it died if it was a GSD. There would have been a serious mess if it did. Or unless it was seriously disabled or very sick or it was deceased prior to whatever happened to the humans. I have had more than one dog get itself out, or flat out destroy a crate when there was a reason they needed to. Medium and large dogs are strong enough to force their way out, and some figure out how to open it. Crates are not escape proof. One thing I did think though, was maybe some of the medications found were for the dog. One they said was thyroid medication. Thyroid disorders are fairly common in dogs. May explain her being in bathroom where the crated dog was. I thought they said that dog was in bathroom closet.

 

[ttjo]

Ive never heard the 911 that long. Makes sense, the gate wasn't open, the caretaker had to go between the walls to get in. "The way I got in was between these two walls"
I wonder if the maintenance guy even got up there? surely they would have had a vehicle? They were probably scheduled to arrive, but given that GH or Betsy didn't open the gates,unusual that they weren't answering, maybe heard the dogs barking? no wonder he went to get the caretaker to do a welfare check.
They were at the front doors, so was it the front door that was unlocked but not open ? it was the mudroom that had the open door?
When the caretaker reported that the door was locked, sounds like he didn't even try the door. fair enough.