Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #3

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Yes. I have a loved one that takes heart medication. If she doesn't have that, eventually her heart will go into an arrhythmia.

My mother was removed from her aFib meds on hospice. She lasted two weeks before her heart gave out.

 

[NuttMegg]

I was just going to note this myself! I was surprised to see many social media comments to the effect that they were not "buying" the official explanation, suspected extreme nefarious activities, etc. I guess too many CSI and crime shows....

Geez 7 years later they're still after Shannan Watts and her Mom, though many have been kicked off yt.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

No one knows.
Dealing with a rodent problem has to be more intensive than that tho, have to check traps daily, not every 2 weeks!

Our rodent company in NM comes monthly. There are big black boxes with traps inside, and the boxes are outdoors. The company comes, checks boxes, and leaves. Most people here use rodenticide in the boxes, but we do not because of its effects on owls and wildlife. So if they had pest visits bi-monthly that is double the norm, and it might mean Betsy was concerned about the problem.

 

[NuttMegg]

Our rodent company in NM comes monthly. There are big black boxes with traps inside, and the boxes are outdoors. The company comes, checks boxes, and leaves. Most people here use rodenticide in the boxes, but we do not because of its effects on owls and wildlife. So if they had pest visits bi-monthly that is double the norm, and it might mean Betsy was concerned about the problem.

Thanks for all your observations on the local scene. A million years ago I went to UNM, miss NM so much.

 

[FromGermany1]

Anyway, the pest control had been ordered to check the property and/or house circa 2 weeks before the spouses were found dead. So it makes much sense for me, that there may have been a severe problem, and that Betsy, who was fit to be around the property, got an infection early on. Maybe, she got the infection before pest control was ordered to check the property/house. It may have lasted a while to become really ill (as I googled).
I'm sad about their fate; what a tragic.
Their end of life, he without her or her without him, would have been tragic probably in any case, but this end I find very sad.

 

[friendlysleuther]

Anyway, the pest control had been ordered to check the property and/or house circa 2 weeks before the spouses were found dead. <RSBM>

There’s no evidence of this at all…

 

[FromGermany1]

There’s no evidence of this at all…

I read it on WS. Thought, it would be okay and the truth.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Thanks for all your observations on the local scene. A million years ago I went to UNM, miss NM so much.

oh, @NuttMegg -- I can imagine your wonderful memories of NM. So many rich retirees now and Santa Fe and Albuquerque so changed. You were lucky to be here then. It's such a beautiful state. I'm fairly new (a few years) but I was so proud of how the press conference was conducted. I actually know the family of Fire Chief Brian Moya, so it all feels very close and personal, as I'm sure it does to you knowing the landscape so well.

 

[Joe Friday]

If she did die on the 11th, and he stayed in the house with her body for a week, which the timeline seems to at least indicate, it's left to imagine that he had to have been eating or at least drinking, using the restroom, etc.

SBM

You bring up a good point about Gene using the restroom.

I wonder if any thing could be determined regarding Gene's use of the restroom, or lack there of, and use that information to determine how long it may have been since Gene was not receiving care from Betsy. In other words how long had been since he may have changed his cloths and how soiled was his clothing at the time of his death. This would perhaps give an understanding on how long Gene was alone without any help from Betsy.

Perhaps without knowing if Gene was able to bath and change his cloths on his own, it's just a shot in the dark. But maybe the physician Gene would have been seeing regarding his Alzheimer's could answer that. I would think at each visit questions would be asked such as if the patient is able to use the restroom on their own, is the patient able to bath and change their clothing on their own, in order to evaluate the independence of the patient and document the progression of the disease.

JMO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I read it on WS. Thought, it would be okay and the truth.

If it's the Wall Street Journal, that's a terrific source and definitely likely to be "truth," but it's behind a paywall. It's possible their reporters do have some detailed information.

 

[Quill]

There’s no evidence of this at all…

Sure there is.

Carbon monoxide poisoning ruled out in death of Gene Hackman and wife, police say

Investigators say ‘good assumption’ actor died on 17 February while autopsies reveal no external trauma

www.theguardian.com

Direct quote from the article below. Included a video of the sheriff himself saying it out loud.

"Authorities were contacted after a worker performing pest control came across their open door but was unable to get in touch with the couple and dispatched security in the area to check on them."

 

[formerreddingrunner]

I was so proud of how the press conference was conducted.

I thought they did such a good job! And I am one to go for conspiracy theories (sometimes), but in this case, I don't see it. Thanks to @tomstrees, some of us had already been theorizing about hantavirus since Wednesday morning, before they even announced Friday's press conference with the NM Dept of Health. (and after they announced the press conference with the NM Dept of Health, then I became even more suspicious it could be hantavirus. it's a severe illness, up to 50% mortality in the southwest).

Why do I now feel like this case is going to go on and on in the media? MEDIA CIRCUS. It's because Gene Hackman was famous, and they were extremely wealthy.

I honestly feel bad for some of the investigators now b/c it's not their fault. The Medical Examiner didn't invent hantavirus, she's just doing her job. Furthermore, the fact that Betsy and Gene lived in isolation without external help like most celebrities (caregivers, cleaning personnel, personal chefs, etc.), or regular phone calls from family members to discover the bodies sooner isn't law enforcement's fault. And now they'll be blamed for it! [sarcasm]

 

[SMK777]

SBM

You bring up a good point about Gene using the restroom.

I wonder if any thing could be determined regarding Gene's use of the restroom, or lack there of, and use that information to determine how long it may have been since Gene was not receiving care from Betsy. In other words how long had been since he may have changed his cloths and how soiled was his clothing at the time of his death. This would perhaps give an understanding on how long Gene was alone without any help from Betsy.

Perhaps without knowing if Gene was able to bath and change his cloths on his own, it's just a shot in the dark. But maybe the physician Gene would have been seeing regarding his Alzheimer's could answer that. I would think at each visit questions would be asked such as if the patient is able to use the restroom on their own, is the patient able to bath and change their clothing on their own, in order to evaluate the independence of the patient and document the progression of the disease.

JMO

Agreed, that would go a long way toward determining how long he'd been without her care.

An initial article I'd read interpreted the ME statements as indicating his wife had died 7 days before him, but others are surmising it may only have been a few days.

As he showed no indication of dehydration he may have been at least drinking. But using the bathroom, cleaning up, etc. would have to be as you say determined by certain factors.

 

[NCWatcher]

Here's where I'm stuck...

Alzheimers is progressive

Gene had a pacemaker and needed medication so he was being seen by a doctor.

Betsy was the sole caregiver and would have been in touch with his medical team.

How would a medical team allow a person in his state,which would have been diagnosed, to only be cared for by a non medical professional?

Alzheimers is progressive. For it to be at that late of a stage he obviously couldn't care for himself and requires round the clock care.

In the US you can have a family memeber be your primary care giver but it is still regulated with regular checkins. Given the passage of time and lack of communication it does not appear this was the case.

How could a person on medications and with his level.of disease be taken so far off the grid with zero check ins or regulations

I think becky was just blinded by her love and devotion

The space heater on the floor tells me she had a fever with chills. Gives.me some hope she was so delirious that she went quick. Maybe I. The only one here but if she kept suffering for days I can't imagine how painful it was as a caregiver to be so far incapacitated you couldn't help

As others have said, I'm not sure a physician would intervene if the caretaker appeared competent, said everything was being handled, and said they had friends in the area they could call on if necessary. (I don't know that she said that but it was probably true. Lots of people in the Santa Fe area are speaking up.,)

We don't really know how advanced the effects of Gene's Alzheimer's were on his behavior in the last few months. We don't know how impaired he appeared at any recent doctor's appts. It doesn't matter if the ME said the disease was "advanced" yesterday. She doesn't know either how impaired he was in daily life. All she knows is that his brain had lots of Alzheimer's abnormalities. But with all kinds of brain damage/disease, not just Alzheimer's, actual impairment doesn't necessarily correlate with degree of brain damage. More education has long been known as a moderator. While Gene didn't finish college he wasn't a high school dropout. And being an actor required good verbal and memory skills. Some studies suggest being male with good social support predicts a better quality of life with Alzheimer's too.

Predictors and Moderators of Quality of Life in Alzheimer's Disease Patients - PubMed

These results reinforce the importance of gender, psychological morbidity, social support, and functionality, with special emphasis on the role of spirituality, regarding intervention programs that promote QOL, in patients with mild AD.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

While the couple was reclusive recently, I don't think there is any doubt Gene felt fully supported by Betsy. And I don't know that she took him "so far off the grid with zero check ins or regulations." We don't know that SHE decided in the should move to Santa Fe shortly after they married. Certainly 35 years ago it's unlikely he had signs of Alzheimer's! And he was active in Santa Fe for many years as she was.

We don't know there were zero check-ins. I'm not sure what you mean by "regulations" but all Alzheimer's patients and their families don't want an institutional life or a home life filled with strangers paid by the hour. Besides, patients often decline when moved to a new setting or there are home changes. And at some point, patients and their families have a right to self-determination.

It may be Gene would have lived longer in an institutional setting but maybe he would have died sooner. It's hard to say about Betsy too. She probably wouldn't have caught that rodent virus living in a mansion in the LA area. But without having Gene to care for every day she might have died early.

Regardless, the case IS sad, but how long would we have expected Gene to live? He was 95! With a pacemaker. And with an angioplasty in 1990. And with a possible head trauma in the 1980s when a car hit him when he was bicycling in the Florida Keys. He apparently was not dehydrated when he died so he must have done some self-care if Betsy did die days before he did.

MOO

 

[Sunshynn]

I thought they did such a good job! And I am one to go for conspiracy theories (sometimes), but in this case, I don't see it. Thanks

I agree.
I think they worked together well to make sure all the i’s were dotted and t’s were crossed as best they could be.

Even if they were not a wealthy and famous couple the original, presenting circumstances of the deaths were odd.

I think the officials took every effort to be thorough - even if they were thinking a virus originally from the start (the health records listed in the search warrant). They tried, imo, to keep speculation after c.o.d. was announced to a minimum.

 

[Knox]

Here's where I'm stuck...

Alzheimers is progressive

Gene had a pacemaker and needed medication so he was being seen by a doctor.

Betsy was the sole caregiver and would have been in touch with his medical team.

How would a medical team allow a person in his state,which would have been diagnosed, to only be cared for by a non medical professional?

Alzheimers is progressive. For it to be at that late of a stage he obviously couldn't care for himself and requires round the clock care.

In the US you can have a family memeber be your primary care giver but it is still regulated with regular checkins. Given the passage of time and lack of communication it does not appear this was the case.

How could a person on medications and with his level.of disease be taken so far off the grid with zero check ins or regulations

I think becky was just blinded by her love and devotion

The space heater on the floor tells me she had a fever with chills. Gives.me some hope she was so delirious that she went quick. Maybe I. The only one here but if she kept suffering for days I can't imagine how painful it was as a caregiver to be so far incapacitated you couldn't help

As far as I know, the choice to care for a loved one at home is still “allowed”. She wasn’t blinded by anything, nor were they living off the grid.

Gene was 95 with severe heart problems, Betsy was doing something right. This is a tragedy which occurred due to a health crisis she suffered. The outcome wasn’t pretty, but they were living their life “unregulated” in the way they saw fit. No one else needed to approve.

 

[IceIce9]

There’s no evidence of this at all…

Yes, several links have been posted on this thread that said this.

 

[Cherwell]

I agree.
I think they worked together well to make sure all the i’s were dotted and t’s were crossed as best they could be.

Even if they were not a wealthy and famous couple the original, presenting circumstances of the deaths were odd.

I think the officials took every effort to be thorough - even if they were thinking a virus originally from the start (the health records listed in the search warrant). They tried, imo, to keep speculation after c.o.d. was announced to a minimum.

I am so angry that they have been betrayed by the media.
This from the BBC simply is not true. Dr Jarrell did say Betsy probably died first, but not that she died on 11 Feb.

Actor Gene Hackman and wife Betsy Arakawa died of natural causes one week apart​

Authorities believe she passed away about seven days before her husband, to whom she had been married for more than 30 years. ... It is likely that Ms Arakawa died first on 11 February, Dr Heather Jarrell of the New Mexico Medical Investigator's Office told a news conference on Friday.

There is no excuse for this misinformation. The press conference is available to check what was said and not said. The BBC used to be a reliable source second to none. It's no better than a gutter press tabloid now.

 

[madamx]

Here's where I'm stuck...

Alzheimers is progressive

Gene had a pacemaker and needed medication so he was being seen by a doctor.

Betsy was the sole caregiver and would have been in touch with his medical team.

How would a medical team allow a person in his state,which would have been diagnosed, to only be cared for by a non medical professional?

Alzheimers is progressive. For it to be at that late of a stage he obviously couldn't care for himself and requires round the clock care.

In the US you can have a family memeber be your primary care giver but it is still regulated with regular checkins. Given the passage of time and lack of communication it does not appear this was the case.

How could a person on medications and with his level.of disease be taken so far off the grid with zero check ins or regulations

I think becky was just blinded by her love and devotion

The space heater on the floor tells me she had a fever with chills. Gives.me some hope she was so delirious that she went quick. Maybe I. The only one here but if she kept suffering for days I can't imagine how painful it was as a caregiver to be so far incapacitated you couldn't help

It could be just Money… if you pay someone (doctors) enough money they will give you the prescriptions that you need and stay out of your life.

They seemed very very private and I can totally see this happening.

There is no law that because you have Alzheimer’s/Dementia you need round the clock watching by a medical staff. Usually the family member takes care of all of this on their own or makes arrangements for help.

 

[IceIce9]

Here's where I'm stuck...

Alzheimers is progressive

Gene had a pacemaker and needed medication so he was being seen by a doctor.

Betsy was the sole caregiver and would have been in touch with his medical team.

How would a medical team allow a person in his state,which would have been diagnosed, to only be cared for by a non medical professional?

Alzheimers is progressive. For it to be at that late of a stage he obviously couldn't care for himself and requires round the clock care.

In the US you can have a family memeber be your primary care giver but it is still regulated with regular checkins. Given the passage of time and lack of communication it does not appear this was the case.

How could a person on medications and with his level.of disease be taken so far off the grid with zero check ins or regulations

I think becky was just blinded by her love and devotion

The space heater on the floor tells me she had a fever with chills. Gives.me some hope she was so delirious that she went quick. Maybe I. The only one here but if she kept suffering for days I can't imagine how painful it was as a caregiver to be so far incapacitated you couldn't help

It is very, very common for patients with Alzheimer’s and other types of dementia to be cared for by a family member even when they need round the clock care. You don’t need to be a medical professional to take care of a patient with dementia or Alzheimer’s.

There are support groups for caregivers of family members with Alzheimer’s and other types of dementia. Sadly it is a very common situation .