Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #3

[MrsEmmaPeel]

It does happen in the US. Check out Jerry Lewis’s will for an interesting read.

Yes it clearly does happen, since it happened twice in my family. My uncle's will stated that if we challenged the terms in any way, my sister and I would lose the little granted to us. It is a way to make a will more ironclad in the wishes of the deceased.

 

[Knox]

But police never said she died on the 11th no matter what the MSM said. The 11th was the last day they had proof she was alive ** without the phone records.** The ME said specifically at the press conference she couldn't say if she died on the 11th.
MOO

Jumping off your post ...

At the end of the day, what does it really matter? There was no foul play involved, just a set of tragic circumstances, where each of them died separately in the home.

Both LE & the ME said they are some questions which can never be answered. The media is perpetuating details for their own obvious reasons, particularily the DM.

 

[Cherwell]

Jumping off your post ...

At the end of the day, what does it really matter? There was no foul play involved, just a set of tragic circumstances, where each of them died separately in the home.

Both LE & the ME said they are some questions which can never be answered. The media is perpetuating details for their own obvious reasons, particularily the DM.

Yes, but I would welcome some evidence that Betsy was alive for a few more days, so that Gene wasn't alone for so long.

 

[Cherwell]

The best way to not have a will be contested, is to leave a minimal amount to those you would ‘disinherit’.
In Canada, I’ve never heard of naming those who are to be disinherited. Perhaps adding a letter explaining why, in case it goes to court but that’s it. Explain the minimal inheritance.

I've heard of people being left a nominal amount ("cut off with a shilling" comes to mind) which proves that they weren't just forgotten about. I don't think it requires an explanation though.

Of course sometimes people have been financially rewarded during the testator's lifetime. This is a common way in the UK of reducing inheritance tax.

 

[Kudzuu]

I've always been told to leave something to the kids or next of kin, in my case siblings. That way they can't claim the were promised something and more easily sue. I m o

 

[Luna20]

There is a stipulation that *Luigio’s grandmother put in her Will. Anyone who has been charged with a crime is excluded from her Will/inheritance *(guy who killed UHC Brian Thompson VP). I may have misspelled his name.

Not sure if that is an unusual clause but it’s interesting considering where he is now.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This article states that Betsy spoke with a doctor on the morning of Feb 12th, and made an appointment for herself for later that day, totally unrelated to the hantavirus or a respiratory issue, but she never showed up. I'm guessing her time of death is somewhere between the call and the appointment time, given that she appeared to be very reliable and responsible.

Hackman doctor claims wife called him 24hrs AFTER police say she died

perplexing..this certainly raises new questions. And essentially, does require answers.

 

[Kudzuu]

perplexing..this certainly raises new questions. And essentially, does require answers.

DM is not quoting the medical examiner correctly. The last time Betsy was communicating or seen was on February 11. This is in the press conference clearly stated. The officials were very careful about this information probably for this very reason.
Just some misinformation that is easily cleared up if you watch the press conference.

On another note this can clear up the Will problem.
MOO.

 

[tlcya]

The best way to not have a will be contested, is to leave a minimal amount to those you would ‘disinherit’.

In Canada, I’ve never heard of naming those who are to be disinherited. Perhaps adding a letter explaining why, in case it goes to court but that’s it. Explain the minimal inheritance.

No one is ‘entitled’ to the money or assets of the deceased, blood relative or not.

here stateside it is common to contain specific exclusionary language if an heir is being left out of a will

"for reasons known to myself and [name] I leave nothing to [name] under this, my last will and testament" and then add no contest clause to discourage will contests in general

 

[RedHaus]

In Canada, I’ve never heard of naming those who are to be disinherited.

RSBM
... and my maternal Grandmother who lived and died in London ON, in her Will, stipulated her son (one of two children) would get most of her modest estate ONLY if he divorced his wife of many years. That friction caused my Uncle and his wife to divorce. My Mother got a toaster and some token % of the estate. Pretty brutal I'd say...

Nice to meet a fellow Canadian (I'm dual).

 

[Cherwell]

This article states that Betsy spoke with a doctor on the morning of Feb 12th, and made an appointment for herself for later that day, totally unrelated to the hantavirus or a respiratory issue, but she never showed up. I'm guessing her time of death is somewhere between the call and the appointment time, given that she appeared to be very reliable and responsible.

Hackman doctor claims wife called him 24hrs AFTER police say she died

I wouldn't be so sure, given that they said she didn't seem unwell. Maybe something happened with Gene and while seeing to him she missed the appointment. The ABC report added that the appointment concerned "an esoteric treatment".

There's some dodgy quotes in that Mail piece:

Dr Child added: 'I am not a hantavirus expert but most patients who have that diagnosis die in hospital. It is surprising that Mrs Hackman spoke to my office on the phone on February 10 and again on February 12 and didn't appear in respiratory distress.'

An LA-based doctor told The Mail on Sunday: 'Medical professionals are all scratching their heads over hantavirus as the cause of death.
Respiratory failure is not sudden – it is something that worsens over several days. Most people get admitted to the ER because they are having trouble breathing. It's exceedingly rare for a seemingly healthy 65-year-old to drop dead of it. In fact, no one's heard of such a thing.'

They need to listen to what the ME said about the progress of the disease. That the respiratory failure occurs several days in, not straight away. It's a rare disease, so few doctors will have personal experience of it.

 

[ClearAhead]

Because we don’t know and it appears avoiding a public announcement is intentional, a snippet on the topic of beneficiaries of the trust. IIRC the children don’t live in NM.

Yet much like the media running with the Feb 11th date of death which clearly was not stated by the coroner, they seem to thrill at running stories about the children being written out of any inheritance.

BBM

Gene Hackman and wife Betsy Arakawa named each other in their wills

A month after the couple died separately in their New Mexico home, an outside party has been appointed as the representative for their estates.

www.usatoday.com

Peters noted in a March 13 petition to the court that "there are trust assets to be administered in both the GeBe Revocable Trust and the Gene Hackman Living Trust," and that the GeBe trust "passes through the Will of Gene Hackman to the Gene Hackman Living Trust."

The latter "contains mainly out-of-state beneficiaries," per her court filing.

****
ETA It annoys me how the media often jumps to a conclusion to support the most scandalous probability of various options. < Click, click, click bait >

Given it was published that the son hired an estate lawyer, why is it automatically being assumed it’s because he intends on contesting Wills or Trust Directives? Maybe he was seeking legal advice to appropriately manage his inheritance?

 

[Joe Friday]

Seen a preview on the television yesterday for an upcoming show about Gene. But I can't find it online. Believe it was to air on Tuesday. Anyone else see that?

 

[tlcya]

Because we don’t know and it appears avoiding a public announcement is intentional, a snippet on the topic of beneficiaries of the trust. IIRC the children don’t live in NM.

Yet much like the media running with the Feb 11th date of death which clearly was not stated by the coroner, they seem to thrill at running stories about the children being written out of any inheritance.

BBM

Gene Hackman and wife Betsy Arakawa named each other in their wills

A month after the couple died separately in their New Mexico home, an outside party has been appointed as the representative for their estates.

www.usatoday.com

Peters noted in a March 13 petition to the court that "there are trust assets to be administered in both the GeBe Revocable Trust and the Gene Hackman Living Trust," and that the GeBe trust "passes through the Will of Gene Hackman to the Gene Hackman Living Trust."

The latter "contains mainly out-of-state beneficiaries," per her court filing.

****
ETA It annoys me how the media often jumps to a conclusion to support the most scandalous probability of various options. < Click, click, click bait >

Given it was published that the son hired an estate lawyer, why is it automatically being assumed it’s because he intends on contesting Wills or Trust Directives? Maybe he was seeking legal advice to appropriately manage his inheritance?

Good point. No point challenging the will if it is as simple pour over will which pours any asset left outside the trust into it upon the death of the testator.

Trust administration will likely be quite the task. due to the presumed size and value of the trust assets. Since trusts aren't filed with the court or otherwise made public, at least where I am from, we may never know who all benefits under it.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Sinatra left everything in his Will to his current wife Barbara. All of his music, publishing, movies, etc. was in a Trust with Tina as the Trustee.

Just because the kids are not named in the Will doesn't mean they aren't in any of the trusts.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I wouldn't be so sure, given that they said she didn't seem unwell. Maybe something happened with Gene and while seeing to him she missed the appointment. The ABC report added that the appointment concerned "an esoteric treatment".

There's some dodgy quotes in that Mail piece:

Dr Child added: 'I am not a hantavirus expert but most patients who have that diagnosis die in hospital. It is surprising that Mrs Hackman spoke to my office on the phone on February 10 and again on February 12 and didn't appear in respiratory distress.'

An LA-based doctor told The Mail on Sunday: 'Medical professionals are all scratching their heads over hantavirus as the cause of death.
Respiratory failure is not sudden – it is something that worsens over several days. Most people get admitted to the ER because they are having trouble breathing. It's exceedingly rare for a seemingly healthy 65-year-old to drop dead of it. In fact, no one's heard of such a thing.'

They need to listen to what the ME said about the progress of the disease. That the respiratory failure occurs several days in, not straight away. It's a rare disease, so few doctors will have personal experience of it.

I agree. Based on Dr Childs' comments and the fact he spoke to the DM, I would never see him as my doctor. He might be fantastic, and his concierge practice sounds wonderful, but to publicly weigh in after the fact and on a matter he admits he is not an expert in, seems irresponsible and insensitive to me.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Will someone with legal expertise weigh in -- Is it possible GH's son hired an estate attorney to monitor the proceedings? If the executor of the estate is Choice #3 and possibly someone unknown to the children or even to Gene since the executor I believe was an entity not a person, I would watch that person like a hawk. I also wonder if it's possible to contest the executor. And finally, is all of this public knowledge? Like what happens in court regarding the estate and trusts? Such a mess if so.

 

[ClearAhead]

Will someone with legal expertise weigh in -- Is it possible GH's son hired an estate attorney to monitor the proceedings? If the executor of the estate is Choice #3 and possibly someone unknown to the children or even to Gene since the executor I believe was an entity not a person, I would watch that person like a hawk. I also wonder if it's possible to contest the executor. And finally, is all of this public knowledge? Like what happens in court regarding the estate and trusts? Such a mess if so.

Maybe reading this will be helpful.

A Smart Way to Avoid Probate: The Living Trust

Assets in a living trust are not considered part of your estate at your death, meaning they can often be distributed without the complications and hassle of going through the probate process.

www.legalzoom.com

Although I’m not a legal expert, establishing a Trust keeps the details private and away from the public eye since a Living Trust does not require probate, therefore does not become a court record ie public record. For us common folk, the cost or need for privacy is generally not worth it but for the wealthy establishing a Trust is very routine as it minimizes messy situations.

IMO unless legal proceedings take place, we’ll never know why the son hired an estate lawyer but requiring the services of estate lawyers and accountants upon receiving large inheritances is prudent, particularly to seek advice on tax implications.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

hard to know without first seeing the will and the trust documents. If, as I suspect, a pourover will was used, which is what the articles seem to be describing, then there will not be a probate, so no court supervision. Most trusts contain language to direct what happens if all the named trustees and successors are unable or unwilling to serve. In those instances a fiduciary corporate entity, such as a bank, might be named. Who has the authority to name such a successor would be described in the trust document(s). The most common mechanism I have seen used is that the successor trustee can name their own successor, or if they are dead, a majority of the remainder beneficiaries may select/designate the new successor as they agree.

Typically, trust administration doesn't involve court oversight unless a dispute about how to address something specific arises. All of the above is just IME, in the state of IL.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Thanks @ClearAhead and @tlcya. Much clearer. So son could just be being prudent. I would imagine GH planned to keep estate as private as possible. Would a will cover cover any estate matters not in Trusts? Like authority to make decisions on dogs?