General Discussion and Theories #4

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

It may well not be his choice how he appears. I don''t believe they allow walk in closets in jail and usually they have one set of clothes kept in their property. Who knows whether or not he had been allowed a shower/shave and pedicure before he was taken to court, he may well have been taken to the courthouse shortly after breakfast, leaving no time for the bathroom routine other than the necessary relieving of oneself.

If DM chooses to lie in bed for hours after they turn the lights on in the morning, and has nothing else to do, why would he not groom himself for court in that time? With a toilet at the foot of the bed, he may be leaving things rather last minute if that's all he has time to attend to. I guess this behavior would support AS's assertion that DM was a crack-of-noon type of guy.

Or if they are innocent !!! I'd say that if someone was innocent it must be absolutely soul destroying to be accused of such a crime. Murder can take many forms and as yet we have no idea of what will be revealed at trial. I have known of someone who killed a stepfather and placed in jail for an eventual 5 years. The small sentence was simply due to the reasoning behind the murder, of which I am not prepared to discuss, simply to mention and show that for some, being in jail can sometimes be devastating when the person knows they had no other choice at the time. Not saying this is in any way similar to the case being discussed here, but until trial we have no way of knowing details that may be pertinent.

But DM and MS are charged with two counts each of first degree murder, for which the sentence is automatically life. We know that the Crown intends to prove the murders were premeditated, do we not?

 

[Tamarind]

<rsbm>



If DM chooses to lie in bed for hours after they turn the lights on in the morning, and has nothing else to do, why would he not groom himself for court in that time? With a toilet at the foot of the bed, he may be leaving things rather last minute if that's all he has time to attend to. I guess this behavior would support AS's assertion that DM was a crack-of-noon type of guy.

They have to be taken out of cell to be allowed to shower,as in be taken out of cell and given access to shower facility. He would not be allowed a mirror in the cell for obvious reasons. Therefore, he may not have opportunity to primp and groom himself to suit all onlookers and critics. IMO. It doesn't support anything AS had to say, in fact in my opinion, nothing supports anything AS had to say.

But DM and MS are charged with two counts each of first degree murder, for which the sentence is automatically life. We know that the Crown intends to prove the murders were premeditated, do we not?

They can intend and hope for whatever they like. The jury will hopefully not be taking the Crowns feelings into consideration, but deciding on the evidence or lack of to come to a decision. We have no way of knowing what that will be

 

[SnooperDuper]

They have to be taken out of cell to be allowed to shower,as in be taken out of cell and given access to shower facility. He would not be allowed a mirror in the cell for obvious reasons. Therefore, he may not have opportunity to primp and groom himself to suit all onlookers and critics. IMO. It doesn't support anything AS had to say, in fact in my opinion, nothing supports anything AS had to say.

A glass mirror, no, but a stainless steel one, yes. If DM wanted to groom himself, or buy a haircut, he could.

 

[Tamarind]

A glass mirror, no, but a stainless steel one, yes. If DM wanted to groom himself, or buy a haircut, he could.

A stainless steel reflective device is not the best way to view ones visage IMO.

Grooming requires more than a minimal reflective view of oneself and a comb. Water, drain hole and a shower device and a change of clothes is a much better way of helping with the grooming process. IMO

I don't agree that DM definitely had access to what was needed for adequate grooming on any specific court date.

If he had shown up with a coiffed head and a hugo boss suit, I expect he would be criticized for that.

 

[SnooperDuper]

A stainless steel reflective device is not the best way to view ones visage IMO.

Grooming requires more than a minimal reflective view of oneself and a comb. Water, drain hole and a shower device and a change of clothes is a much better way of helping with the grooming process. IMO

I don't agree that DM definitely had access to what was needed for adequate grooming on any specific court date.

If he had shown up with a coiffed head and a hugo boss suit, I expect he would be criticized for that.

No, just expecting that DM could meet the same standard of grooming set by MS, who seems to be making out ok in the same environment. Clean shaven, regular haircuts.

 

[Juballee]

No, just expecting that DM could meet the same standard of grooming set by MS, who seems to be making out ok in the same environment. Clean shaven, regular haircuts.

They are not in the same environment, one is on and off a range regularly and the other has been in solitary confinement the entire time. To people in prison there is a huge difference between the two, with access to different places, things and people.

 

[SnooperDuper]

They are not in the same environment, one is on and off a range regularly and the other has been in solitary confinement the entire time. To people in prison there is a huge difference between the two, with access to different places, things and people.

You can't tell me that an alleged CEO who allegedly managed people and projects full-time, given 24 hours x 876 days, can't figure out a way to get himself a haircut.

If DM were prevented from performing personal hygiene on himself by the institution, I'm sure his lawyers would be all over it.

I think DM suffers from a lack of motivation and a lack of self-pride (though if I were him, I don't think I would be proud of myself either).

Perhaps he should get an image consultant: jurors are going to have a hard time seeing the prep-school kid who always excelled at things and the alleged CEO in him if he lets himself go all Tom Hanks from Castaway. Jurors are going to look at him and quiver with fear at the thought of meeting him in a dark alley.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Besides, all DM has to do to get a shave is ask. A guard will come, provide him with a razor, supervise him while he shaves, and take the razor away. This is standard procedure on the range and I am sure it is no different in solitary.

DM has to be held accountable for his own personal hygiene and choices about it, just as he should be held accountable for his crimes.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I guess when we get into personal appearance, we are back in the realm of psychiatry:

The history and Mental Status Examination (MSE) are the most important diagnostic tools a psychiatrist has to obtain information to make an accurate diagnosis.

The clinician must pay close attention to the patient's presentation, including personal appearance, social interaction with office staff and others in the waiting area, and whether the patient is accompanied by someone (ie, to help determine if the patient has social support).

When patients enter the office, pay close attention to their personal grooming. One should always note things as obvious as hygiene

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/293402-overview

 

[Tamarind]

You can't tell me that an alleged CEO who allegedly managed people and projects full-time, given 24 hours x 876 days, can't figure out a way to get himself a haircut.

If DM were prevented from performing personal hygiene on himself by the institution, I'm sure his lawyers would be all over it.

Lawyers dont have much pull in the daily running of a jail. From what I have heard it can be difficult to even get a call through to one, waiting days is often the norm.

I think DM suffers from a lack of motivation and a lack of self-pride (though if I were him, I don't think I would be proud of myself either).

We are all free to think whatever we like. In DM's case I would not be surprised if he lacked motivation, especially if he is an innocent party. Pride is neither here nor there if he feels depressed. Pride would not be an issue.

Perhaps he should get an image consultant: jurors are going to have a hard time seeing the prep-school kid who always excelled at things and the alleged CEO in him if he lets himself go all Tom Hanks from Castaway. Jurors are going to look at him and quiver with fear at the thought of meeting him in a dark alley.

An image consultant ! He is locked away in jail, in solitary confinement ! Who does he need to impress at this point?

When the trial comes, he may feel more like making an effort and hopefully the jail is co-operative. Actively being present at a trial that may well prove your innocence is more likely to evoke a sense of hope and encourage motivation. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

I guess when we get into personal appearance, we are back in the realm of psychiatry:







http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/293402-overview

He is not a patient he is an inmate, sitting in solitary in a jail. No comparison. IMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Here are some photos of Ontario jail cells, one of which is the Barton Street jail.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4413905-barton-jail-on-the-other-side-of-the-fence/

http://www.johnhoward.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/counter-point-3-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-prisoner-in-ontario.pdf

I'm not seeing any stainless steel mirrors. Also from the second link, for those inmates not in segregation, they are allowed a shower during their time out of their cell, provided they are not in lock-down. For DM, this is one hour a day at most. According to many prisoner blogs, which I don't believe can be linked here, those in segregation are often denied that. Here is one man's example, which can be linked, where he was denied access to showers for up to 3 days at a time.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2015/01/24/toronto-superjail-inmate-makes-human-rights-complaint-after-being-segregated-for-having-hiv.html

And then we have this in regards to isolated prisoners:

&#8220;In addition to the worsening of pre-existing medical conditions, offenders may experience physical effects, such as lethargy, insomnia, palpitations and anorexia.&#8221;

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/solitary-confinement-is-cruel-and-usual-punishment-canadian-medical-association

There is actually a video of a tour of the Windsor jail in that link. Still not seeing those stainless steel mirrors.

 

[Alethea Dice]

But DM and MS are charged with two counts each of first degree murder, for which the sentence is automatically life. We know that the Crown intends to prove the murders were premeditated, do we not?

rsbm

Actually, no, we don't know that. What we do know is that, in the case of TB, Kavanaugh stated that the first degree charge was a result of the abduction.

The first-degree murder charge is based on the forcible confinement allegations, Kavanagh said. The charge, often used in planned and premeditated murders, is also used when someone is killed while they are being forcibly confined.

“He entered that vehicle of his own free will, but he was not allowed to leave, therefore forcible confinement is the proper charge,” Kavanagh said when asked about the charge.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/first-degree-murder-charge-to-be-laid-in-test-drive-death-remains-badly-burned/

The same could potentially apply to LB as well, since we have no details on any of the evidence for her case.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

rsbm

Actually, no, we don't know that. What we do know is that, in the case of TB, Kavanaugh stated that the first degree charge was a result of the abduction.



http://www.macleans.ca/news/first-degree-murder-charge-to-be-laid-in-test-drive-death-remains-badly-burned/

The same could potentially apply to LB as well, since we have no details on any of the evidence for her case.

JMO

DM is the only one with the 3 charges of theft, forcible confinement, and 1st degree murder in Tim's case, whereas MS is only charged with 1st degree murder. The way the charges were laid, I would think DM is believed to have committed the theft and FC (possibly the killing, or participated in the killing, or MS did the killing alone with DM being charged with 1st degree murder simply because Tim died during the FC for which DM is accused).

Forcible confinement doesn't seem to factor into LB's case, so I think her murder must have been premeditated to constitute the 1st degree charge in her case.

JMO

 

[Tamarind]

DM is the only one with the 3 charges of theft, forcible confinement, and 1st degree murder in Tim's case, whereas MS is only charged with 1st degree murder. The way the charges were laid, I would think DM is believed to have committed the theft and FC (possibly the killing, or participated in the killing, or MS did the killing alone with DM being charged with 1st degree murder simply because Tim died during the FC for which DM is accused).

Forcible confinement doesn't seem to factor into LB's case, so I think her murder must have been premeditated to constitute the 1st degree charge in her case.

JMO

It may be alleged that LB was a premeditated case. The fact is without a body the case has to be relying on a lot of guesswork in my opinion. I also think that with DM, they laid charges based on who they believed was driving the truck. JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

It may be alleged that LB was a premeditated case. The fact is without a body the case has to be relying on a lot of guesswork in my opinion. I also think that with DM, they laid charges based on who they believed was driving the truck. JMO

Okayy then ... I suppose my post could have succinctly qualified "alleged murder must have been considered premeditated by the Crown to constitute the 1st degree charge in her case".

It is understood, and a given to members of the general public, that charges laid by the Crown are allegations which are believed to be true, otherwise there wouldn't be any charges.

 

[matou]

Okayy then ... I suppose my post could have succinctly qualified "alleged murder must have been considered premeditated by the Crown to constitute the 1st degree charge in her case".

It is understood, and a given to members of the general public, that charges laid by the Crown are allegations which are believed to be true, otherwise there wouldn't be any charges.

:gaah:

 

[Juballee]

I have to disagree with that sentiment, SB. In my opinion, only a certain percentage of the public automatically believe all allegations made by authorities are true enough to justify all the charges in any given case. But that's just my opinion only.

 

[Alethea Dice]

DM is the only one with the 3 charges of theft, forcible confinement, and 1st degree murder in Tim's case, whereas MS is only charged with 1st degree murder. The way the charges were laid, I would think DM is believed to have committed the theft and FC (possibly the killing, or participated in the killing, or MS did the killing alone with DM being charged with 1st degree murder simply because Tim died during the FC for which DM is accused).

Forcible confinement doesn't seem to factor into LB's case, so I think her murder must have been premeditated to constitute the 1st degree charge in her case.

JMO

That could be, however, it wouldn't be the first time the public wasn't made aware of additional charges. I can certainly see it matching your scenario though. I also agree with Tamarind that the reason DM received those charges is because they believe him to be the driver. Those charges were also laid before the body was even found.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I have to disagree with that sentiment, SB. In my opinion, only a certain percentage of the public automatically believe all allegations made by authorities are true enough to justify all the charges in any given case. But that's just my opinion only.

I think what was meant is that it's believed to be true by the Crown and LE. Otherwise there wouldn't be any charges.