General Discussions #5

[golfmom]

Could have been that he was turning to the church or maybe it was more vanity, trying to look good in front of others?

I remember hearing Mark Hackings fellow church members saying they felt shocked and betrayed because he had seemed to be such a devout member.

Also, it be a good idea to at least pay lip-service to the church since the church was supporting him too!

 

[newkid]

Thank you newkid! Really helpful.

To clarify a thing or two, if you don't mind - generally speaking, are the "home teachers" more experienced members, etc.? When Raven refers to "preparing his home teaching lesson, " the implication is not necessarily that HE is a home teacher himself, but perhaps perparing in advance of a home teaching visit?

Thanks again!

Glad to help.

I would bet that he was preparing his lesson, that he was the home teacher.

Younger or inexperienced church members are sometimes paired with older members. We've had a team consisting of a 16 year old boy and a 40 year old man. I think he would have been considered completely capable as a home teacher, really one of the most important parts is to check on the family and visit with them. The lesson is important as well, but even inexperienced members would be easily able to deliver it.

 

[golfmom]

Glad to help.

I would bet that he was preparing his lesson, that he was the home teacher.

Younger or inexperienced church members are sometimes paired with older members. We've had a team consisting of a 16 year old boy and a 40 year old man. I think he would have been considered completely capable as a home teacher, really one of the most important parts is to check on the family and visit with them. The lesson is important as well, but even inexperienced members would be easily able to deliver it.

:waitasec: Regardless of his knowledge I just don't understand how he could be deemed qualified as a teacher! The church knew about his affairs and surely they knew about the embezzlement? It would be hard for me to see him in a leadership/mentor/teaching position.

 

[Timex]

2) Although often on a team of some sort, he has never really been part of a team.

I really meant it as a reference to your statement above. That he was not really ever part of the team. I know what you mean about how hard it would be for friends/family to swim upstream here. But, we have seen a vx/motorcycle kindof buddy show up. I'm surprised that we haven't seen anything from soccer friends ... good or bad ...

Again, just going on my experiences...people like Raven dont exist to the other team members. Yes, he is on the team...but he is not part of the team. They would never call and say "hey, why dont you join us for a beer?", because he isnt one of them, no matter how badly he wants to be, or hard hard he tries to fit in.

 

[newkid]

:waitasec: Regardless of his knowledge I just don't understand how he could be deemed qualified as a teacher! The church knew about his affairs and surely they knew about the embezzlement? It would be hard for me to see him in a leadership/mentor/teaching position.

Honestly, when I posted I had forgotten about the affairs. If the church knew about his affairs, chances are he would have been disciplined and would not have been a home teacher. The discipline would probably last a year though, so it may have just ended or maybe too they didn't know about his affairs. I bet they would know about his embezzlement charges too, and I'm not sure what they would do there. They may believe whatever story he might have told, saying it's all a big mix up or they say innocent until proven guilty. They may have decided not to take any action until everything was done in court. Some people are just excellent liars. Sorry to keep going back to the Mark Hacking thing, it's been all over the news lately, but he's quite the example of how someone can lie to everyone they know and get away with it for a long time.

Also, I don't know for sure that they knew about any affairs. Is that confirmed?

One other thought on that, it may be more trying to look good in front of others. He may not have been working on a home teaching lesson at all, just captioning that photo that way so his family would think all is well. Kind of like saying on his vehicross board that he bought the house that they were really renting.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Again, just going on my experiences...people like Raven dont exist to the other team members. Yes, he is on the team...but he is not part of the team. They would never call and say "hey, why dont you join us for a beer?", because he isnt one of them, no matter how badly he wants to be, or hard hard he tries to fit in.

Exactly. People like Raven are often the ones with the biggest mouths; boasting & posing, and really nothing much more than a complete annoyance to everyone around them.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

.haven't found that one...( unique vx'ers....) but hadn't seen this one before..:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=2569&highlight=NC_VX

12/19/2003, 06:04 PM

... now the secrets out... How are we going to get away with it anymore, the Border Patrol already hangs on this site cause we have been classified as a Cult by Section 21A.459.9A:7 of the Homeland Security Act....
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina

WHAT??? Maybe this is Raven humor.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Sorry to keep going back to the Mark Hacking thing, it's been all over the news lately, but he's quite the example of how someone can lie to everyone they know and get away with it for a long time.

And how it all eventually comes crashing down when it becomes impossible to keep up the ruse forever.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

:waitasec: Regardless of his knowledge I just don't understand how he could be deemed qualified as a teacher! The church knew about his affairs and surely they knew about the embezzlement? It would be hard for me to see him in a leadership/mentor/teaching position.

I suppose one could make the argument that those things are precisely WHY he was asked, elected, however that might work - perhaps he has talked about all of those things, adultery, embezzlement, etc., with the church, and, in the spirit of forgiveness, maybe, he was "recruited" in to this role, with a mentor, perhaps, in order to closer his ties with the church...share his story with other members... any number of things?? I have no idea, obviously, how LDS works in regards to these types of transgressions versus being a home teacher. Perhaps newkid, or someone, can shed some light here...

All speculation... just playing devil's advocate here...

 

[Timex]

Exactly. People like Raven are often the ones with the biggest mouths; boasting & posing, and really nothing much more than a complete annoyance to everyone around them.

That isnt exactly what I was saying, but I can see your position, as that is how ADHD people are often viewed. People like Raven become loud and boisterous after years of being invisible, which is what Im betting is the case here. My bet is, during grade school, junior high etc..Raven was a nobody. Had no close friends, was not invited to the birthday party's the other kids got invited to. He was an outsider. The internet allows him to be all the things he never was.

 

[newkid]

I suppose one could make the argument that those things are precisely WHY he was asked, elected, however that might work - perhaps he has talked about all of those things, adultery, embezzlement, etc., with the church, and, in the spirit of forgiveness, maybe, he was "recruited" in to this role, with a mentor, perhaps, in order to closer his ties with the church...share his story with other members... any number of things?? I have no idea, obviously, how LDS works in regards to these types of transgressions versus being a home teacher. Perhaps newkid, or someone, can shed some light here...

All speculation... just playing devil's advocate here...

That's entirely possible, with the rumors we've heard about pleading guilty, he may have convinced his church leaders that he's seen the error of his ways and is doing his best to repair the damage. His leaders may have seen it as a way to help him feel involved as well as show some support. He may have been assigned to strong families. He may have been partnered with someone who was more solid in their beliefs too. All of this is just speculation though, I don't know what he told his leaders or what they knew of him in the first place. :banghead:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

That isnt exactly what I was saying, but I can see your position, as that is how ADHD people are often viewed.

No, I'm not saying that about ADHD people; I'm saying that about adults that crave attention, and boast and brag and strut to get that attention. Yes, some ADHD people might be like that; many are not. And some people without ADHD are like that as well. So I'm not saying it in terms of ADHD people. I'm saying it about people that are grown adults yet seem to have to be the center of attention, make ridiculous jokes, one-up other people, etc., as if they've never matured beyond that point.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

My bet is, during grade school, junior high etc..Raven was a nobody. Had no close friends, was not invited to the birthday party's the other kids got invited to. He was an outsider. The internet allows him to be all the things he never was.

I can see this, too. And that's what I was saying a week or so ago about feeling badly for him. If you're moved from place to place to place, you never really get the opportunity to put your roots down, and establish a solid group of friends around yourself. Then wherever you're moved to next, you've either got to do whatever you can to make friends and fit in, or you can be alone. That's a pretty sad way for a child to grow up, IMO. Sometimes there is no choice, and I pass no judgement on people for doing what they need to do in their lives. It's just sad that sometimes the consequences are quite large.

 

[Timex]

No, I'm not saying that about ADHD people; I'm saying that about adults that crave attention, and boast and brag and strut to get that attention. Yes, some ADHD people might be like that; many are not. And some people without ADHD are like that as well. So I'm not saying it in terms of ADHD people. I'm saying it about people that are grown adults yet seem to have to be the center of attention, make ridiculous jokes, one-up other people, etc., as if they've never matured beyond that point.

Many dont mature..thats the problem. Or if they do, they mature far slower than most. Dont get me wrong, it's not an excuse, it's just a reason. Being ADHD is never an excuse for inappropriate behavior IMO.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Many dont mature..thats the problem. Or if they do, they mature far slower than most. Dont get me wrong, it's not an excuse, it's just a reason. Being ADHD is never an excuse for inappropriate behavior IMO.

I just didn't want you to think that I was basing my statements on ADHD people. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I have no compassion. I don't know if Raven is ADHD, and if he has some sort of impulse control and did this to Janet, then there will be a part of me that feels badly that he didn't seek/find help prior to doing something so horrible. Of course, regarding whomever did this, the majority of my compassion will always be with Janet and Kaiden.

 

[lauriej]

g/m.......

........i recall you posted earlier that the court date re: the 5 embezzlement charges had been moved from june 10/05 to jully 22/05 (?)

.....do you know why ?

 

[ewwwinteresting]

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/061105_APlocal_sbicrimelab.html

"N.C. House Panel Approves Money for SBI Crime Lab

By The Associated Press(06/11/05 -- RALEIGH) — A state House budget subcommittee has approved $4.4 million for the State Bureau of Investigation crime lab, which is struggling with backlogs of DNA analysis, drug evidence testing and computer forensic work.

​

The Senate did not include any of the additional funding that North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper requested for the crime lab in its $17 billion budget proposal.

"We'll push hard for them to keep this appropriation in the final budget," Cooper said Friday after the subcommittee's vote. "This fight clearly is not over. It's critical for public safety that these new agents get to work as soon as possible."

The Raleigh crime lab has 36,000 DNA samples awaiting analysis and review before they can be entered in a statewide database. Drug chemists have 15,000 drug cases awaiting testing while they travel across the state to methamphetamine lab busts.

The lone computer forensic technician, who examines computer hard drives for evidence in murder and child cases, has 50 cases waiting, which will take him about a year to finish.

House lawmakers are expected to take up the entire budget proposal next week, and both the House and Senate will work out a final spending bill this summer."

Maybe the "trust fund" could help pay for the testing on this case?!

 

[golfmom]

g/m.......

........i recall you posted earlier that the court date re: the 5 embezzlement charges had been moved from june 10/05 to jully 22/05 (?)

.....do you know why ?

Lauriej! I wish I knew. Someone did research and found that afternoon of the original date there were something like 200 cases being pushed through over there. So maybe it's just that they are juggling cases because they are so busy.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/061105_APlocal_sbicrimelab.html

"N.C. House Panel Approves Money for SBI Crime Lab

Maybe the "trust fund" could help pay for the testing on this case?!

Now there's a great idea!

I'm starting to think that with this backlog, the fact that Raven is awaiting trial for embezzlement ... why rush to arrest him if they need more time? They know where he is. He doesn't appear to be a danger to anyone else. Or maybe they're waiting to see if, when, and how any life insurance is collected and used or where the trust fund money is going to go.

 

[anneshirley]

:waitasec: Regardless of his knowledge I just don't understand how he could be deemed qualified as a teacher! The church knew about his affairs and surely they knew about the embezzlement? It would be hard for me to see him in a leadership/mentor/teaching position.

Sorry to change the subject, but I've just been able to catch up on all of the weekend posts....Y'all are busy, busy!
In dealing with the hometeaching subject...
I worry that we're using the word "teacher" wrong. I wouldn't think of it as a mentor or an Instructor. Here, the word teacher describes sharing a message with someone and helping that person (teaching through actions and words).
Hometeaching is more of a support system than it is a typical teaching system. You are paired with another member of the LDS church in your ward and you two are assigned people or families (usually 2-3) to visit. While you are encouraged to share a spiritual message with the family, this is not the only purpose to your visit. You are to act as a support system for this family or person and help them however you can (this can be in the form of cooking meals if someone is sick, helping people move or just being there for them).Hometeaching is a means of checking up on the welfare of other church members and helping those you home-teach spiritually by sharing a message.
Raven could very well have been working on his hometeaching message in that pic. I don't know if it whether or not he was actually doing his hometeaching relates to his "spirituality" (and therefore his potential to commit a crime like murder...I won't talk about the embezzeling...) I'd like to consider myself an active and devout mormon, though my visits don't happen every month, as they probably should.