George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[missy1974]

I can't judge where DC weight would have been based on the one photo.
What I can say is when I duplicate the position in the photo my weight is on my right leg, I can't apply weight to my left leg and keep my foot sidewise without pain or turning my foot to a toe to pavement position.
Just try it, its much harder than it looks in the photo, to apply any pressure to the left leg with the ankle turned. Yes, if I keep my ankle straight I can apply full pressure, no problem.

In my quick, highly unscientific experiment, all my weight was on my right knee, so much so that I got up and got a pillow to put on the floor to try it again, cuz it hurt. jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO, that is why he is pressing his body weight down on his thigh.

I think so too. Also, it's not just Chauvin applying the pressure. The other officer has his knee firmly pressed into Floyd's back. He finally gets off him after they realize he is unresponsive, but Chauvin stays where he is until the paramedic takes over.

When the paramedic asked what happened, Chauvin just tells him he was resisting and wouldn't get into the squad car but says nothing about restraining him. He would have known how important that detail was since in the manual it stresses that it's crucial to give paramedics accurate information. They seemed very confused as to what caused the patient to be in the condition he was in when they got there.

When they asked Lane if Floyd was fighting them the "whole time" he says something like, no, maybe just a minute and a half, we were trying to get him into the squad car, etc, etc. He never mentions a word about restraining him or that they restrained him for nine minutes after he stopped resisting.

This clearly points to "consciousness of guilt," both in omitting the most important detail to paramedics and also when Chauvin didn't mention to his supervisor that he had been kneeling on Floyd's neck to restrain him. Imo

 

[Tom_Servo]

I think the jury will be able to manage the depraved mind condition. They managed it in Noor's trial.

Noor shot willy-nilly at a defenseless woman who approached his car having reported a rape. Chauvin continued to kneel on the neck of a now-inert, non-responsive man for almost 4 minutes.

Neither of them cared that they were putting their victims at unreasonable risk of death or severe injury.

I don't think it's that simple and the Noor rulings, as posted above, are completely different. I don't see the parallel at all.

These disagreements of interpretation likely represent the different views of jurors. While it seems Chauvin should be a slam dunk for murder the more you dig into things like Noor, and literally reading the definitions of these words, it's not so straight forward. The more I read the more it looks like manslaughter. I think the state has over charged him. 2nd degree should never have been leveled because a "not guilty" verdict on any of the charges is going to have horrible optics. Even if he's found guilty of manslaughter and gets the maximum sentence it won't be enough to prevent more social unrest.

 

[Gibbo214]

I don't think it's that simple and the Noor rulings, as posted above, are completely different. I don't see the parallel at all.

These disagreements of interpretation likely represent the different views of jurors. While it seems Chauvin should be a slam dunk for murder the more you dig into things like Noor, and literallyn. reading the definitions of these words, it's not so straight forward. The more I read the more it looks like manslaughter. I think the state has over charged him. 2nd degree should never have been leveled because a "not guilty" verdict on any of the charges is going to have horrible optics. Even if he's found guilty of manslaughter and gets the maximum sentence it won't be enough to prevent more social unrest.

That is just your opinion. And there are terms in the English language that when used together take on a different meaning when used as a term of speech. And this is just my opinion.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I don't think it's that simple and the Noor rulings, as posted above, are completely different. I don't see the parallel at all.

These disagreements of interpretation likely represent the different views of jurors. While it seems Chauvin should be a slam dunk for murder the more you dig into things like Noor, and literally reading the definitions of these words, it's not so straight forward. The more I read the more it looks like manslaughter. I think the state has over charged him. 2nd degree should never have been leveled because a "not guilty" verdict on any of the charges is going to have horrible optics. Even if he's found guilty of manslaughter and gets the maximum sentence it won't be enough to prevent more social unrest.

The definitions are not straight forward. How can the courts give a jury definitions that are clear as mud?

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

It almost looks like he is not using his feet the way they look. Like he is balancing all his weight on his knee and the back foot is like a kickstand on a bike. If that is possible, a man's knee is about 4 square inches, used my husband to measure. If he is about 200 pounds, guessing, that is 50 pounds per square inch roughly. That is a lot of pressure pinpointed on the neck.

DC weighed a lot less than 200 lbs.

When Floyd was finally taken away by paramedics, Charles McMillian, a 61-year-old bystander who recognized Chauvin from the neighborhood, told the officer he didn’t respect what Chauvin had done.

“That’s one person’s opinion,” Chauvin could be heard responding. “We gotta control this guy ‘cause he’s a sizable guy ... and it looks like he’s probably on something.”

Floyd was 6-foot-4 and 223 pounds, according to the autopsy, which also found fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system. Chauvin’s lawyer said the officer is 5-foot-9 and 140 pounds.

Ex-cop told onlooker George Floyd was big, ‘probably on something’

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

Above BBM

Has the above bolded portion been admitted into evidence?

If not, it's not relevant to this case, nor is it evidence in his death.

Is this evidence? I haven't heard of it.

I haven't followed this case closely until trial. So if I haven't heard of something, it's maybe likely that it's not evidence.

I've only heard of what's been reported on cable news - which is not much.

Hi,

Here is an article about the 2019 arrest being admissible in this case. It is relevant to this case as parts of it were allowed as evidence. This is a quote by Judge Cahill from the link below.

The judge said a portion of the body camera video from the arresting officer will be allowed at trial, as well as Floyd’s blood pressure results at the scene, the suspected illicit drug pills in his car and his statements to the paramedic for the medical diagnosis.

"The whole point here is we have medical evidence on what happens when Mr. Floyd is faced with virtually the same situation: confrontation by police at gunpoint followed by a rapid ingestion of some drugs, we don’t know exactly how many but there was an admission that he had done it at the time of the stop," Cahill said. "That is medical evidence."

Some of Floyd's 2019 arrest evidence admissible in Chauvin trial, judge rules

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

BBM

I haven't seen that evidence (the BBM) in court.

Can you please help me and either link the video (with a timestamp) or post a specific pic that depicts what you've described above?

I'm not contesting what you're stating, I'm just asking (if you're able) to post the evidence.

TY so much, if you're able & willing to do so.

\

Hi,

Here is a link below comparing the 2019 arrest with the 2020 arrest. I found the whole video interesting but to answer your question, it's at 7:45 minute mark where they discuss the white object I, and the defense, is referring to. This is from the 2020 arrest. I hope this helps! I'm not the greatest at navigating messageboards so I apologize if this doesn't answer your question.

10/16/20 New Bodycam Video of George Floyd's 2019 Arrest - Court TV

 

[MsBetsy]

DC weighed a lot less than 200 lbs.

When Floyd was finally taken away by paramedics, Charles McMillian, a 61-year-old bystander who recognized Chauvin from the neighborhood, told the officer he didn’t respect what Chauvin had done.

“That’s one person’s opinion,” Chauvin could be heard responding. “We gotta control this guy ‘cause he’s a sizable guy ... and it looks like he’s probably on something.”

Floyd was 6-foot-4 and 223 pounds, according to the autopsy, which also found fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system. Chauvin’s lawyer said the officer is 5-foot-9 and 140 pounds.

Ex-cop told onlooker George Floyd was big, ‘probably on something’

There were two other officers restraining him, so it wasn't just Chauvin's weight on him that was the problem. He also looks like he weighs more than 140 pounds.

 

[Gibbo214]

Hi,

Here is an article about the 2019 arrest being admissible in this case. It is relevant to this case as parts of it were allowed as evidence. This is a quote by Judge Cahill from the link below.

The judge said a portion of the body camera video from the arresting officer will be allowed at trial, as well as Floyd’s blood pressure results at the scene, the suspected illicit drug pills in his car and his statements to the paramedic for the medical diagnosis.

"The whole point here is we have medical evidence on what happens when Mr. Floyd is faced with virtually the same situation: confrontation by police at gunpoint followed by a rapid ingestion of some drugs, we don’t know exactly how many but there was an admission that he had done it at the time of the stop," Cahill said. "That is medical evidence."

Some of Floyd's 2019 arrest evidence admissible in Chauvin trial, judge rules

BBM. What medical evidence? And what admission?
Is this the judge?

 

[Gibbo214]

DC weighed a lot less than 200 lbs.

When Floyd was finally taken away by paramedics, Charles McMillian, a 61-year-old bystander who recognized Chauvin from the neighborhood, told the officer he didn’t respect what Chauvin had done.

“That’s one person’s opinion,” Chauvin could be heard responding. “We gotta control this guy ‘cause he’s a sizable guy ... and it looks like he’s probably on something.”

Floyd was 6-foot-4 and 223 pounds, according to the autopsy, which also found fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system. Chauvin’s lawyer said the officer is 5-foot-9 and 140 pounds.

Ex-cop told onlooker George Floyd was big, ‘probably on something’

That is the lamest excuse I have ever heard. Really, Chauvin is 5ft 9ins?

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

BBM. What medical evidence? And what admission?
Is this the judge?

Hi,

Yes, the part you bolded is a quote from the judge.

 

[Gibbo214]

Hi,

Yes, the part you bolded is a quote from the judge.

Why is the judge making any judgments while the trial is ongoing?

 

[branmuffin]

But again, regardless of Mr Floyd’s drug use and serious medical issues, Chauvin was the one with his knee on his neck, refusing to render aid. The potential “disaster” you speak of could have been hours, days or weeks away but for the action and inhumane inaction of Chauvin....like a nurse hurrying along the death of a terminally ill patient and withholding care...as I mentioned in a previous post.
JMO

There's a saying that goes "It's not the fall that kills you, it's hitting the ground". My interpretation of that statement is that the fall is the drug use and heart issues and the sustained pressure of a knee on a person's neck is hitting the ground. Similar to people who die of Covid because they have comorbidities like asthma. Without contracting Covid they'd still be alive. GF could have died in a car accident and his autopsy results would state his cause of death would be catastrophic and crushing injuries. The coroner would note the victim had advanced heart disease but wouldn't list it as a cause of death. Just like the autopsy results for GF.

 

[MsBetsy]

Why is the judge making any judgments while the trial is ongoing?

The judge ruled that part of the video of the arrest would be admissible as evidence. I don't know exactly what he meant by medical evidence, but if anything it just points to the fact that in this case there were signs that Floyd needed medical attention and the officers failed to provide it. In fact they seemed to do everything possible to escalate the situation, which obviously made it worse.

 

[branmuffin]

Yes, and also the fact that the weight and extensive pressure prevented his diaphragm and lungs from working properly.

Another thing not stated regarding the pressure is the fact that GF was an extremely muscular individual. I was watching this guy on CNN, a journalist, discussing the different holds police and MMA wrestlers are trained to use. MMA use a 'tap out' to stop the hold. The journalist used himself as a guinea pig to illustrate the holds. This guy was tall and skinny with no extra muscle; when he was flat to the ground, he was flat to the ground. GF had well developed pectoral muscles and upper arm and shoulder muscles. Getting his neck on the ground like DC did put even more pressure on his neck at an extremely unnatural position.

 

[CrimeAway]

Respectfully, have you ever grappled with someone who doesn't want to be restrained?

I have, and I have seen it more than a few times. It can be surprisingly hard IMO, to control someone smaller than yourself.

I'm not condoning everything that the officers did, but I am seeking to understand the entirety of the situation, using the witness testimony, evidence, my own experience etc.

 

[mom2chloe]

There were two other officers restraining him, so it wasn't just Chauvin's weight on him that was the problem. He also looks like he weighs more than 140 pounds.

Chauvin looks like he weighs more or GF? Sorry just seeking clarification!

 

[mom2chloe]

Apologies but I previously asked regarding whether Chauvin’s body camera video had been released and was answered but I am still confused. I specifically mean Chauvin’s own (his personal body camera and his alone) body cam although i know it was dislodged at some point during the incident. I still have not seen that and would appreciate a link or something. Thanks in advance!

 

[MsBetsy]

Chauvin looks like he weighs more or GF? Sorry just seeking clarification!

Chauvin looks like he weighs more than 140. Floyd was about 223 lbs when he died.