George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[Dogface]

Also noteworthy, the use of force in that case was reported to supervisors and Chauvin was cleared.

That is noteworthy indeed IMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm not sure if that's one of the two they are allowing. There was also a 14 he used excessive force with. One of the cases that will be shown as evidence is an arrest during which a man was restrained and Chauvin witnessed the other officer's placing the suspect in the recovery position. The man suffered an asthma attack and later the hospital staff told the officers if they had not given him medical attention sooner he would have died.

It shows Chauvin knew the risk he was taking but did it anyway. Imo

This is cut/paste from the media thread... MN - George Floyd, 46, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 **Media & Timeline - NO DISCUSSION


Posted by @Weki on MT

"Not sure if this has already been posted but judge ruled Wednesday that 2 out of 8 prior incidents with Chauvin would be coming in as ‘he knew better’ for #3 and modus operandi evidence for #5:

Incident No. 3 — Aug. 22, 2015:On August 22, 2015, Defendant Chauvin participated with other officers in rendering aid to a suicidal, intoxicated, and mentally-disturbed male. Chauvin observed other officers physically struggle with the male and one officer used a Taser on the male, to little avail. Eventually, the officers were able to put the male on the ground and place handcuffs on him. Chauvin and the other officers then immediately put the male in the side-recovery position, consistent with training. Chauvin rode with the male to the hospital for medical care. Officers involved in the response received a recommendation for an award for their appropriate efforts and received feedback from medical professionals that, if officers had prolonged their detention of the male or failed to transport the male to the hospital in a timely manner, the male could have died.

Incident No. 5 — June 25, 2017:On June 25, 2017, Defendant Chauvin went to place a female under arrest in her home. As the female walked by, Chauvin grabbed one of her arms and told her she was under arrest. The female tried to pull away, and Chauvin applied a handcuff to one wrist. As the female tried to twist away, Chauvin pulled her down to the ground in the prone position and kneeled on her body to pin her to the ground. After being handcuffed, the female refused to stand, so Chauvin carried her out of the house in a prone position and set her face down on the sidewalk. Even though the female was not physically resisting in any way, Chauvin kneeled on her body, using his body weight to pin her to the ground while another officer moved the squad car closer. Chauvin then directed the other officer to apply a Hobble restraint to the female even though she was not providing any physical resistance. Chauvin’s conduct in kneeling on the female during this entire time was more force than was reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials...hog-tie-a-suspect-who-wasnt-resisting-arrest/

 

[MsBetsy]

I totally agree!

It actually annoys me when people equate legally prescribed (and properly used) stimulants such as methylphenidate (Ritalin/Concerta), mixed amphetamine salts (Adderall), dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine), lisdexamphetamine (Vyvanse) and even methamphetamine (Desoxyn), with illegal meth or cocaine use.

The toxicologist who did the lab work testified that the level of methamphetamine was very low and was consistant with a prescription dose. I'm pretty sure Dr. Baker agreed that it was not a significant amount. Imo

 

[Cubby]

I don't think it matters if drugs were a contributing factor, it would need to be a causal factor (at least in the case of 2nd degree murder).

From the defense's proposed jury instructions:
_____

The fact that other causes contributed to the death does not relieve the defendant of criminal liability. However, the defendant is not criminally liable if a “superseding cause” caused the death. A “superseding cause” is a cause that comes after the defendant’s acts, alters the natural sequence of events, and produces a result that would not otherwise have occurred. An overdose or heart failure that causes death is a superseding intervening cause.

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/me...20-12646/ProposedJuryInstructions02082021.pdf

And thus far there have been no superseding cause.

 

[MsBetsy]

Also noteworthy, the use of force in that case was reported to supervisors and Chauvin was cleared.

He was only disciplined for two incidents involving excessive force. One was a shooting and I'm not sure what the other one was. It may have been a police chase which ended with two people being killed. Imo

 

[margarita25]

sharing this that I came across...sounds very similar to the situation with GF, and the person survived(although I’m sure they had some trauma from it). So it’s hard for me to accept that a healthy person would have died from it. But then again, I’m no expert.

Edit: I forgot the link
Prosecutors say Chauvin kept his knee on teenager’s back for 17 minutes in 2017, while the boy said ‘I can’t breathe’ - Minnesota Reformer

This says “back”, not “neck”.

eta:
Not that it was acceptable, imo:

“According to the prosecution, the videos show that 33 seconds after telling the boy to come out of the room, both officers grabbed him. When he refused to get on his stomach, Chauvin hit him with his flashlight twice and grabbed his throat and applied a neck restraint causing him to lose consciousness.“

[...]

“Over the next several minutes, the boy repeatedly told the officers he couldn’t breathe and his mother begged Chauvin to take his knee off her son.

Chauvin replied that the boy was a “big guy” and did not move his knee, according to the court document.

“Although the child’s ear was actively bleeding and he repeatedly told the officers he was in pain, the officers continued to restrain him instead of administering medical treatment,” the filing says.“

eta2: “grabbed his throat“, we saw him do that with GF, too. As I understand it, that’s not within procedure.

 

[Legally Bland]

And thus far there have been no superseding cause.

Yep.

 

[Cubby]

Not following. What would he be disciplined for?

Calling it a homicide?

Saying it was due to what was a result of LE actions?

If it can be demonstrated he purposely minimized cause of death information to protect city employees, the possibility of discipline exists.

 

[kittythehare]

The toxicologist who did the lab work testified that the level of methamphetamine was very low and was consistant with a prescription dose. I'm pretty sure Dr. Baker agreed that it was not a significant amount. Imo

It is irrelevant where the drug was sourced, the only relevance is what remained of a known identifiable drug in his system post mortem on toxicological analysis.
They found methamphetamine fentanyl nicotine and caffeine plus THC.
Dr Baker deferred to toxicologist .

 

[missy1974]

The toxicologist who did the lab work testified that the level of methamphetamine was very low and was consistant with a prescription dose. I'm pretty sure Dr. Baker agreed that it was not a significant amount. Imo

I just watched Baker's testimony, I disagree that he agreed it was not a significant amount. He says that he is unaware if there is a quote-unquote 'a safe level of methamphetamine'.

 

[kittythehare]

If it can be demonstrated he purposely minimized cause of death information to protect city employees, the possibility of discipline exists.

There were also several conflicting reports from his offices, were there not?
I meant to search these reports out in response to your earlier comments, one was in NYT yesterday but it was just bullet points. I will try to find a comprehensive report.
It does seem as that supports your comments.

 

[kittythehare]

I just watched Baker's testimony, I disagree that he agreed it was not a significant amount. He says that he is unaware if there is a quote-unquote 'a safe level of methamphetamine'.

That's likely because toxicology and pharmacology is not his specialty.
There actually is and it's usage is well documented
Desoxyn (methamphetamine) dosing, indications, interactions, adverse effects, and more
Desoxyn (Methamphetamine Hydrochloride): Uses, Dosage, Side Effects, Interactions, Warning

 

[missy1974]

And thus far there have been no superseding cause.

An overdose or heart failure that causes death is a superseding intervening cause

I really think the defense did a good job with Baker yesterday to make a case for the heart disease.
It will be interesting to hear from a cardiologist/cardiologists.

All JMO

 

[AC's Grandma]

I have a question. Chauvin originally agreed to take a plea for 3rd degree murder but the AG denied it. 3rd degree was put back in as an option at the start of the trial, can Chauvin not decide at any time prior to the end of the trial to plead guilty to 3rd degree murder?

 

[Reasonable & Just]

This says “back”, not “neck”.

eta:
Not that it was acceptable, imo:

“According to the prosecution, the videos show that 33 seconds after telling the boy to come out of the room, both officers grabbed him. When he refused to get on his stomach, Chauvin hit him with his flashlight twice and grabbed his throat and applied a neck restraint causing him to lose consciousness.“

[...]

“Over the next several minutes, the boy repeatedly told the officers he couldn’t breathe and his mother begged Chauvin to take his knee off her son.

Chauvin replied that the boy was a “big guy” and did not move his knee, according to the court document.

“Although the child’s ear was actively bleeding and he repeatedly told the officers he was in pain, the officers continued to restrain him instead of administering medical treatment,” the filing says.“

eta2: “grabbed his throat“, we saw him do that with GF, too. As I understand it, that’s not within procedure.

My gosh. This guy is a menace.

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

Did they describe what he had been doing that day? Had he in fact been playing basketball?

I haven't heard that he was or wasn't playing basketball earlier. And I'm not saying he was playing basketball early. I'm just saying that when he told the cops he was "hoopin" earlier, he was telling them that he was playing basketball. Whether he actually was playing or not, I have no clue.

 

[Cubby]

I have a question. Chauvin originally agreed to take a plea for 3rd degree murder but the AG denied it. 3rd degree was put back in as an option at the start of the trial, can Chauvin not decide at any time prior to the end of the trial to plead guilty to 3rd degree murder?

Chauvin wanted to serve his time in a federal penitentiary as part of that deal. He was turned down.

 

[Simply Southern]

Whew!

found it!

here’s the autopsy

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hen...lic-safety/documents/floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf

Reposting the autopsy report.

I read several times no damage to trachea, no signs of bruising neck or shoulders noted on the internal visual exam.
My interpretation and opinion.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

This says “back”, not “neck”.

eta:
Not that it was acceptable, imo:

“According to the prosecution, the videos show that 33 seconds after telling the boy to come out of the room, both officers grabbed him. When he refused to get on his stomach, Chauvin hit him with his flashlight twice and grabbed his throat and applied a neck restraint causing him to lose consciousness.“

[...]

“Over the next several minutes, the boy repeatedly told the officers he couldn’t breathe and his mother begged Chauvin to take his knee off her son.

Chauvin replied that the boy was a “big guy” and did not move his knee, according to the court document.

“Although the child’s ear was actively bleeding and he repeatedly told the officers he was in pain, the officers continued to restrain him instead of administering medical treatment,” the filing says.“

eta2: “grabbed his throat“, we saw him do that with GF, too. As I understand it, that’s not within procedure.

In this part of the article it say's neck restraint.

Seven minutes after applying the neck restraint and taking the boy to the ground, the boy asked to be put on his back because his neck hurt. He began crying, and asked again.

Maybe the prosecutors got confused?

Prosecutors say Chauvin kept his knee on teenager’s back for 17 minutes in 2017, while the boy said ‘I can’t breathe’ - Minnesota Reformer

 

[CrimeAway]

There's an interview that Mr Hall did (prior to his most recent arrest), that was apparently aired by Court TV.
I have found a shortened version of the interview on the Court TV YouTube channel, but evidently a longer version was aired.

<modsnip: Removed discussion of social media that is not an approved source>

Shortened version ( doesn't mention what they were doing):

It was too late for me to edit my original post, but here is an approved source for the longer video:

3/25/21 Maurice Hall, Friend of George Floyd, Speaks to Court TV - Court TV