George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 3

[Factoria]

lol no, I'm seeing questions everywhere about it.

The answers are conflicting, which is why I wish they had him clarify. I think Blackwell dropped the ball on that one, I think he was so nervous that the wrong thing was going to be said he wasn't on his toes. But that is JMO

I can understand the issue not being brought up during Dr. Tobin's rebuttal testimony, BUT, it should have been addressed during direct at his first appearance. Unless there's something worthy of being hidden... *Dun dun dun*

 

[sds71]

@PaulBlume_FOX9

DEVELOPING: #Mpls public schools announce ALL schools will close to in-person learning next Wednesday-Friday (4/21-23) in anticipation of #DerekChauvinTrial verdict. All grades will do distance learning those days. Schools will operate under normal #COVID schedules Monday-Tuesday

 

[missy1974]

@PaulBlume_FOX9

DEVELOPING: #Mpls public schools announce ALL schools will close to in-person learning next Wednesday-Friday (4/21-23) in anticipation of #DerekChauvinTrial verdict. All grades will do distance learning those days. Schools will operate under normal #COVID schedules Monday-Tuesday

THIS is why the jury should have been sequestered already. Any of the jurors have kids?
How do they not hear some of this stuff living in the community?smh

 

[kittythehare]

@PaulBlume_FOX9

DEVELOPING: #Mpls public schools announce ALL schools will close to in-person learning next Wednesday-Friday (4/21-23) in anticipation of #DerekChauvinTrial verdict. All grades will do distance learning those days. Schools will operate under normal #COVID schedules Monday-Tuesday

Do they really expect a verdict as soon as Wednesday?
I'm shocked.
I don't expect a verdict for at least a week, based on our conversations here...
there is just so much information they must sift through...
I sincerely hope the final summations will bring clarity for the jury and that their instructions are clear.
I do not envy them.

 

[tlcya]

@PaulBlume_FOX9

DEVELOPING: #Mpls public schools announce ALL schools will close to in-person learning next Wednesday-Friday (4/21-23) in anticipation of #DerekChauvinTrial verdict. All grades will do distance learning those days. Schools will operate under normal #COVID schedules Monday-Tuesday

This is probably wise but it saddens me plans such as this must be made in anticipation of the verdict. The jurors are now sequestered, which already threw a bit of a wrench in their normal household routines. If jurors have children, spouses etc. Now whoever is wrangling the school age children of any jurors has just had a whole new wrench thrown into their planned routines.

 

[missy1974]

Do they really expect a verdict as soon as Wednesday?
I'm shocked.
I don't expect a verdict for at least a week, based on our conversations here...
there is just so much information they must sift through...
I sincerely hope the final summations will bring clarity for the jury and that their instructions are clear.
I do not envy them.

Juries are so unpredictable! I did hear this morning that Daunte Wrights funeral will be on Thursday though too, I wonder if the 2 combined lead to this decision. I just don't know how the jurors can NOT hear these things. It's like Minneapolis just said "hey we are worried the jury won't convict Chauvin and our city is going to burn down, so keep your kids at home please"

Not that I think it's wrong to do it, I just think it's putting a lot of pressure on a jury that probably already feels the pressure.

JMO

 

[bluebird69]

Do they really expect a verdict as soon as Wednesday?
I'm shocked.
I don't expect a verdict for at least a week, based on our conversations here...
there is just so much information they must sift through...
I sincerely hope the final summations will bring clarity for the jury and that their instructions are clear.
I do not envy them.

This is shocking. Is it realistic to expect a verdict so quickly? If so, what if it is sooner. Or if not by Friday will schools closure be extended? This trial should have been held at a different location for sure. JMO

 

[missy1974]

This is probably wise but it saddens me plans such as this must be made in anticipation of the verdict. The jurors are now sequestered, which already threw a bit of a wrench in their normal household routines. If jurors have children, spouses etc. Now whoever is wrangling the school age children of any jurors has just had a whole new wrench thrown into their planned routines.

They are not sequestered.

 

[tlcya]

They are not sequestered.

sorry, forgot that doesn't start til Monday.

I do believe they should have been all along. But we can't shove the livestock back into the barn now.

 

[kittythehare]

Juries are so unpredictable! I did hear this morning that Daunte Wrights funeral will be on Thursday though too, I wonder if the 2 combined lead to this decision. I just don't know how the jurors can NOT hear these things. It's like Minneapolis just said "hey we are worried the jury won't convict Chauvin and our city is going to burn down, so keep your kids at home please"

Not that I think it's wrong to do it, I just think it's putting a lot of pressure on a jury that probably already feels the pressure.

JMO

I agree.
I think that anticipating the worst possibly fosters the worst.
Who is in charge?
It's not fair on the kids either following the covid restrictions.
Such a mess.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't recall testimony on training or ??? on dangers of CO poisoning through training and experience from trial . Many discussions on positional ashyxiation.

Can you direct me to who/when discussed such training and experience?

I was talking about common sense. Wouldn't a police officer, or any person, know that it can be dangerous to inhale fumes from an exhaust? Especially when they are already in a position that may cause difficulty breathing?

 

[kittythehare]

I was talking about common sense. Wouldn't a police officer, or any person, know that it can be dangerous to inhale fumes from an exhaust? Especially when they are already in a position that may cause difficulty breathing?

Most definitely.
And it's likely chauvin was also inhaling the same fumes..

 

[MadMcGoo]

Can someone give me an example, in this case, of a superseding cause. I think I understand it, but I’m not certain. TIA

 

[Cubby]

I am no where near caught up on the Chauvin threads, but......

I just realized Nelson admitted BOTH of Chauvin's knees were on GF in his opening statement.




Mr. Chauvin used his knee to pin Mr. Floyd’s left shoulder blade and back to the ground, and his right knee to pin. Mr. Floyd’s left arm to the ground.

Defense Opening Statement Transcript: Derek Chauvin Trial for Murder of George Floyd - Rev

 

[Factoria]

Can someone give me an example, in this case, of a superseding cause. I think I understand it, but I’m not certain. TIA

Specific to this case, I think there could potentially be argument that delayed response from EMS and FD could have been pointed to as contributing factors (definitely NOT causal). But, they weren't discussed, because it'd mean nothing with respect to this trial, as those events happened after the initial COD ~ regardless of whether one thinks the COD to be low oxygen, heart issues, or drug related. As far as this case is concerned, that's completely irrelevant, because it happened afterward. JMO

 

[MadMcGoo]

Specific to this case, I think there could potentially be argument that delayed response from EMS and FD could have been pointed to as contributing factors (definitely NOT causal). But, they weren't discussed, because it'd mean nothing with respect to this trial, as those events happened after the initial COD ~ regardless of whether one thinks the COD to be low oxygen, heart issues, or drug related. As far as this case is concerned, that's completely irrelevant, because it happened afterward. JMO

Thank you. I think that answers my question. I couldn’t figure out what the jury might find to be a superseding cause.

 

[Tom_Servo]

Would you always arrest someone for passing a 20 dollar bill even though it doesnt appear it was kept as evidence? For such a minor charge why wouldn't he just be written up and have to appear before a judge? LE rarely come to break ins any more. You could wait days for them to come.

That's not the point though. Regardless if he should or shouldn't have been arrested he was and his resistance is what caused the escalation. Nothing good can come from resisting arrest. You argue that in front of a judge with your lawyer. Not on the street with a cop.

Chauvin really had no one. The defense seemed pretty skimpy compared to the plethora of folks for the prosecution. And really did not create any reasonable doubt for me.

It didn't create any reasonable doubt for me either. He's guilty but of what I'm not sure. Based on raw reading of the charges its manslaughter. The jury instruction will be important to me. The lawyer arguing for the state yesterday via phone sounded like he was trying to rewrite the law via jury instruction. I was put off immensely by that guy. The state did well not to have him in the courtroom.

 

[mickey2942]

That's not the point though. Regardless if he should or shouldn't have been arrested he was and his resistance is what caused the escalation. Nothing good can come from resisting arrest. You argue that in front of a judge with your lawyer. Not on the street with a cop.



It didn't create any reasonable doubt for me either. He's guilty but of what I'm not sure. Based on raw reading of the charges its manslaughter. The jury instruction will be important to me. The lawyer arguing for the state yesterday via phone sounded like he was trying to rewrite the law via jury instruction. I was put off immensely by that guy. The state did well not to have him in the courtroom.

I wonder if the defense "goal" was not to give the prosecution any more ammo than they already had...after all, anyone the defense called, could easily have become valuable for the prosecution case after cross examination.

 

[sds71]

The Minneapolis police Third Precinct was looted and torched during last summer’s civil unrest. Authorities say equipment and files were taken from the building.
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=http://strib.mn/2RCzLUN
Among the many revelations from the investigation of Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd, it ranks a relatively low.

But back in January, authorities were scratching their heads after a Taser issued to the ex-Minneapolis police was recovered during a traffic stop in the south Metro suburb of Burnsville — more than seven months after Chauvin was fired for his role in the death of George Floyd.

The specifics of how and when the device was taken have not been disclosed publicly. Neither was the identity of the person found with the stolen device or the circumstances that led to his or her being arrested.

"At this point we are unsure when this Taser was taken, or where it was located when it was taken," Minneapolis police Cmdr. Travis Glampe wrote in a report several days after its recovery. He wrote that after determining that the Taser was one of theirs, the department's Taser training coordinating officer confirmed that the device belonged to Chauvin. The head of the department's Internal Affairs then contacted BCA agent James Reyerson, who oversaw the agency's investigation of Floyd's death, to arrange the device's retrieval.


Disappearance, recovery of Chauvin Taser remains a mystery

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

I just went back to read about the jurors... from the sounds of this, will she even be able to explain it to others??? @Tippy Lynn do you recall this line of questioning?

No. 89: White woman, 50s
She said she’s a cardiac care nurse who lives in the suburbs.

She was questioned in depth about her medical training and whether she would second-guess police on resuscitation efforts. She was also asked whether she would reference her nursing experience during deliberations. She said she could avoid it, and would not act as an expert during deliberations.

“I think I can be impartial and listen to instructions and go with what I’m given and ignore the outside stuff,” she said.

Your post reminded me of something I was thinking about during jury selection. Potential jurors were asked something similar to the part I bolded above. Are you able to put aside your education, knowledge training and base your decisions on what you've heard in court through expert witnesses. It never made any sense to me. The most basic example that I thought that shows how it doesn't make sense to me is if an expert witness testifies that 2+2=5. Obviously this is an extreme example, but I think it illustrates my point. Are jurors supposed to put their knowledge/education aside and trust the "expert" witness? Maybe I misunderstood the reasoning of these questions...

There are sooooooooooo many scholarly articles on this subject. This is just one that I found.

I believe this specific one to be a good read and is relevant to discussion. MOO
https://scholarship.law.umt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1127&context=faculty_lawreviews

ETA: After reading completely, an excellent read MOO

Thanks for the great reply and link! I had no idea this was a “thing” when I made my post but that article exactly answered my question.