Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #5

[Davieson]

Sure, they have evidence of murder.
Question is whether its actually true or not. Evidence is subject to differing interpretation

 

[frank-cole]

Sure, they have evidence of murder.
Question is whether its actually true or not. Evidence is subject to differing interpretation

Absolutely. A dog bark, a freezer & a flipflop - a written confession & a photograph. Difficult to believe the former & then deny the latter. But it will happen.
What evidence would convince you of CB’s guilt?

 

[Davieson]

Absolutely. A dog bark, a freezer & a flipflop - a written confession & a photograph. Difficult to believe the former & then deny the latter. But it will happen.
What evidence would convince you of CB’s guilt?

Mmm, difficult to be specific, but it would have to something that incontrovertibly demonstrated the simultaneous presence of CB and MM at the time of her death, together with a clear and undeniable narrative of how MM came into his possession in the first place.
Inconclusive circumstantial evidence and second hand confessions by dubious witnesses would not be enough as far as I'm concerned.

Not a lot to ask, given the seriousness of the charge.

 

[JB1510]

Mmm, difficult to be specific, but it would have to something that incontrovertibly demonstrated the simultaneous presence of CB and MM at the time of her death, together with a clear and undeniable narrative of how MM came into his possession in the first place.
Inconclusive circumstantial evidence and second hand confessions by dubious witnesses would not be enough as far as I'm concerned.

Not a lot to ask, given the seriousness of the charge.

What about if CB was in possession of video or photographic evidence of MM post May 3rd but was not recognisable?

 

[Davieson]

What about if CB was in possession of video or photographic evidence of MM post May 3rd but was not recognisable?

Then that wouldn't be conclusive of a murder charge.
Whatever the prosecution claim they have will need to stand the close scrutiny of a court if they wish to substantiate their claims.
As we don't know what evidence prosecution may have, it seems pointless to discuss hypothetical unknowns.

 

[JB1510]

Interesting thought , the hypothetical question was in response to your reply to Frank’s post. Nobody knows what happened to MM after May 3rd and if CB was in possession of video or photographic evidence would leave no room for doubt that CB was the last person she saw.

Video or photographic evidence would also exonerate MM’s parents once and for all. Personally speaking I’d like to see the previous trial evidence put together with a MM charge as imo CB is the filming sadistic home invader/ burglar who tortures and assaults women and children of all ages.

Rather than an unfortunate soul being framed for coincidence after coincidence and just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The fact that his only criminal record in Portugal is for diesel theft and a traffic offence speaks volumes in how poor the PJ were at the time.

 

[Davieson]

Personal opinion and feelings will count for nothing.
All that will be important is the evidence brought forward during a trial, if one ever takes place. Will it stand up to scrutiny and prove their claims or will it fail in the face of a strong defence ?
Only when presented be fore a court will we know what it is. Prior to that, anything appearing in the media should be viewed with skepticism

 

[frank-cole]

Interesting thought , the hypothetical question was in response to your reply to Frank’s post. Nobody knows what happened to MM after May 3rd and if CB was in possession of video or photographic evidence would leave no room for doubt that CB was the last person she saw.

Video or photographic evidence would also exonerate MM’s parents once and for all. Personally speaking I’d like to see the previous trial evidence put together with a MM charge as imo CB is the filming sadistic home invader/ burglar who tortures and assaults women and children of all ages.

Rather than an unfortunate soul being framed for coincidence after coincidence and just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The fact that his only criminal record in Portugal is for diesel theft and a traffic offence speaks volumes in how poor the PJ were at the time.

I think in general - if people find out that CB had images of MM post abduction, coupled with eye witness statements & cell data - the overwhelming majority would believe CB was responsible.

Even a large circumstantial case against CB would be hundreds of times more credible than anything else we’ve read about over the years.

The conversations around this case & CB are in stark contrast to other missing person threads. ‘Le’resistance’ is unique to the McCann case. If a picture isn’t convincing enough, then a dog bark, a Lisbon treaty & a freezer certainly shouldn’t be. I’d be hypocritical if I said it any other way.

The stronger the evidence the more challenging the counter argument. But that counter argument will happen regardless of how strong the evidence is.

 

[Davieson]

I think in general - if people find out that CB had images of MM post abduction, coupled with eye witness statements & cell data - the overwhelming majority would believe CB was responsible.

Even a large circumstantial case against CB would be hundreds of times more credible than anything else we’ve read about over the years.

The conversations around this case & CB are in stark contrast to other missing person threads. ‘Le’resistance’ is unique to the McCann case. If a picture isn’t convincing enough, then a dog bark, a Lisbon treaty & a freezer certainly shouldn’t be. I’d be hypocritical if I said it any other way.

The stronger the evidence the more challenging the counter argument. But that counter argument will happen regardless of how strong the evidence is.

Prosecution haven't said that they have anything like this, so we can only wait and see what they actually have got when they present it in court.

 

[frank-cole]

Prosecution haven't said that they have anything like this, so we can only wait and see what they actually have got when they present it in court.

That’s true, I’ll keep typing my opinions though.

If the German’s have evidence like that, I think the ramifications will be far reaching. Yes it’ll spoil the party, but it will be public confirmation to the masses about who isn’t guilty.

I doubt they’ll have forensics - CB has talked a lot about forensics - “traces” & that the “traces are destroyed” or “a fillet of forensics”. “Traces” seems an unusual description.
And he seems very confident they won’t find forensics and ‘they’ won’t be able to ‘plant’ forensics on him….. how on Earth would he know….

Very unlikely that this cold case will be solved by forensics. CB likes writing & CB likes taking pictures - CB blabs. That’s the most likely mix of evidence imo.

 

[Davieson]

If CB is found not guilty, then it leaves field open regarding who is guilty - not that anyone would be interested in finding that person.

 

[frank-cole]

If CB is found not guilty, then it leaves field open regarding who is guilty - not that anyone would be interested in finding that person.

I disagree. Yes there are going to be people hanging on for a technicality or an inadmissible piece of evidence. But if the German’s have pictures & they choose to announce this post charges, it will undoubtedly answer the question for most.
People who aren’t involved in these debates won’t be motivated to protect their opinion. They’ll be rational.

My opinion.

 

[Davieson]

I prefer to see what evidence they have, rather than what people think they have, and that will only become clear if/when charges are laid.
The validity of that evidence will then be tested during a trial.

 

[Anxala]

I prefer to see what evidence they have, rather than what people think they have, and that will only become clear if/when charges are laid. The validity of that evidence will then be tested during a trial.

Absolutely.

All this hypothetical 'if the prosecution has this, that and the other, would you change your stance?' is pretty pointless imo, particularly when we can't even be confident that there will ever be a charge let alone a trial.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Absolutely.

All this hypothetical 'if the prosecution has this, that and the other, would you change your stance?' is pretty pointless imo, particularly when we can't even be confident that there will ever be a charge let alone a trial.

Safer to go with the quality of evidence the prosecution submitted in the last trial. If the prosecution had a stronger case with MM, we would have already had that trial. But let’s not let logic get in the way of unsubstantiated hypotheticals.

 

[Mex]

Safer to go with the quality of evidence the prosecution submitted in the last trial. If the prosecution had a stronger case with MM, we would have already had that trial. But let’s not let logic get in the way of unsubstantiated hypotheticals.

One might have been able to have agreed with that opinion were we not in the situation of waiting for the result of the outstanding appeal against the deliberations of the last trial; in which logic dictates that SOMEBODY amongst the witnesses in five different cases MUST have been telling the truth!

 

[RichardKimble]

Safer to go with the quality of evidence the prosecution submitted in the last trial. If the prosecution had a stronger case with MM, we would have already had that trial. But let’s not let logic get in the way of unsubstantiated hypotheticals.

Quite, logic dictates there's nothing substantive to proceed to a trial.

 

[Davieson]

Quite, logic dictates there's nothing substantive to proceed to a trial.

Yes, a few suspicions, probably from a dubious source that in no way implicate CB in the murder of MM. In order to do that they would need some pretty damning evidence and if they had that, then we'd already be approaching a trial.
What they have got are a few unrelated coincidences that they were hoping to link together, bolstered by a successful outcome to the recent trial.
Back in 2020 they had confidence that they would be able to do this, but I doubt they are so confident now.

 

[frank-cole]

One might have been able to have agreed with that opinion were we not in the situation of waiting for the result of the outstanding appeal against the deliberations of the last trial; in which logic dictates that SOMEBODY amongst the witnesses in five different cases MUST have been telling the truth!

5 independent witnesses & victims + CB all mention 1 unique & sickening part of the MO.
The case not being proven beyond doubt doesn’t magically make all of the victims & witnesses wrong or liars. I wince when there’s that shtick.

There are also a lot of coincidences in the OJ Simpson case - he was found not guilty, but that certainly doesn’t mean he’s innocent.

 

[Davieson]

5 independent witnesses & victims + CB all mention 1 unique & sickening part of the MO.
The case not being proven beyond doubt doesn’t magically make all of the victims & witnesses wrong or liars. I wince when there’s that shtick.

There are also a lot of coincidences in the OJ Simpson case - he was found not guilty, but that certainly doesn’t mean he’s innocent.

I don't recall that being part of the judgement in CB's recent trial.