Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #3 *ARREST*

[overthemoon]

Your insightful response is much appreciated!

With regards to your comment about the Police attending the funeral of the victim - any murder investigation that was allocated to my Team and I, as the SIO, I would ALWAYS attend the funeral, to show our collective condolences and respects to both the victim and their families and to further cement my commitment to obtaining justice on their behalf. You have to know how the victim (and in some cases their families) lived, in order to find out the intricacies of their death and how , when, where, what and why they died.
Of course I can only speak of myself although I do know that the Murder Investigation Manual that is a major part of the course when training to become an SIO, states that it is a desirable action to take and that even if the Detective Ch Insp SIO cannot attend or the SIO role is given to a Detective Inspector, then the role can be delegated even down to the rank of Detective Sergeant. However, I can only speak of what I have seen and I don’t know how other forces approach this and if their SIO attends the victims funeral ( of which there are 43 just in England and Wales alone, with Scotland having a totally different law and set up to England and Ireland being governed in the north by the PSNI Police Service Northern Ireland and the south governed by Southern Ireland and their respective districts).
In fact, I buried my own father on a Friday and upon returning to work the following Monday, a murder occurred which I took on as SIO and the following Friday, a week on from my fathers funeral, I was back in the Church attending the murder victims funeral
Apologies for the long winded reply.

 

[Tortoise]

I have read one report today which says she was lying on her front and he sat on her back to smother her, but I can't remember which article it was. I'll see if I can find it again.

ETA the article and quote:

"I felt Caroline drown [suffocate?] for five minutes as I ran my hands around her neck and pressed her head against the pillow," the 33-year-old pilot told Homicide Officers.

The killer described in detail the chronicle of the savage murder. As he told the police for another night he had a fight with his wife.

He tried, he said, four times that night to approach her to calm her down, but she was negative and aggressive. Caroline, according to the pilot, left the ground floor and went to the attic to sleep. At four in the morning he went up to the bedroom.

"I put Lydia in the middle of the bed and lay down next to my wife. I hugged her and then she woke up. "He [She] pushed our daughter and asked me to get out of bed," the perpetrator testified.


She [He] then reported that she [he] was confused and, as Caroline was lying face down, he climbed on top of her and grabbed her by the neck and strangled her. The biometric watch - mobile phone that the girl had in her hand, showed that the last pulse of her heart was at 04:11 in the morning.

Γλυκά Νερά: Το χρονικό της δολοφονίας, από το στόμα του πιλότου - FreeOpinion.news

Still lying mind you - he says he got confused after going to bed at 4, but he's already removed the camera cards hours earlier. I think he waited for Caroline to fall asleep so that she would put up least resistance.

 

[Skigh]

Chilling tell-tale signs exposing Caroline Crouch's husband’s pack of lies

 

[MsBetsy]

Still lying mind you - he says he got confused after going to bed at 4, but he's already removed the camera cards hours earlier. I think he waited for Caroline to fall asleep so that she would put up least resistance.

That's also possible. When her heart rate went up it could have been after she woke up and started fighting for her life.

 

[Skigh]

From crocodile tears to a confession: How the net closed on 'Greek Oscar Pistorius' | Daily Mail Online

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The reports I've been reading over the past day or so say they went to separate sessions.

Greek husband 'CONFESSES to murdering British wife Caroline Crouch' sources say | Daily Mail Online

"Police had also revealed during their investigations that both Babis and Caroline had been in therapy at the time of the killing, speaking to the same psychologist but during separate sessions.

At the time, it was reported that Caroline was suffering from post-natal depression. Officers did not say what Babis was being treated for."

B came to all of C's sessions. Do you have a source that makes you think otherwise?

 

[caylee17799]

«Σκέφτομαι να φύγω. Δεν ξερω αν μπορώ να συνεχίσω με τον Μπάμπη»: Δείτε τι έγραφε η Καρολάιν στο ημερολόγιό της
According to Caroline's diary, they were fighting and she had thought about leaving him even before getting pregnant with Lydia (but upon learning that she was pregnant, she changed her mind, because she wanted her daughter to grow up with both parents).She had even found a house in Chalandri that she considered ideal. States that she had also physically attacked him in the past. On New Years Eve 2019 she admits "I don't know if I can continue being with B. I love him so much that I can't leave him, even though this relationship is hurting me."

 

[Skigh]

«Σκέφτομαι να φύγω. Δεν ξερω αν μπορώ να συνεχίσω με τον Μπάμπη»: Δείτε τι έγραφε η Καρολάιν στο ημερολόγιό της
According to Caroline's diary, they were fighting and she had thought about leaving him even before getting pregnant with Lydia (but upon learning that she was pregnant, she changed her mind, because she wanted her daughter to grow up with both parents).She had even found a house in Chalandri that she considered ideal. States that she had also physically attacked him in the past. On New Years Eve 2019 she admits "I don't know if I can continue being with B. I love him so much that I can't leave him, even though this relationship is hurting me."

Is that meant to read that she physically attacked him or is it an error and should have been she was physically attacked by him.

 

[Patrick Jane]

31:20 B's "perp walk"

I think this is the scene AK was hinting around at and telling us earlier that we would "be amazed at" (literally "rub our eyes"-out of disbelief over). Here's B the privileged, respected, high status, and (we were led to believe) "victim", not actually a victim at all, but being led to court by LE, as a confessed murderer and perpetrator.

 

[caylee17799]

Is that meant to read that she physically attacked him or is it an error and should have been she was physically attacked by him.

No, she clearly states "τον χτυπησα", which translates to "I beat/(physically) attacked him".

 

[caylee17799]

31:20 B's "perp walk"

I think this is the scene AK was hinting around at and telling us earlier that we would "be amazed at" (literally "rub our eyes"-out of disbelief over). Here's B the privileged, respected, high status, and (we were led to believe) "victim", not actually a victim at all, but being led to court by LE, as a confessed murderer and perpetrator.

I've been longing for this day since almost the first week the news about the case got out. Now I long for the day he gets a last good look of the outside world, before heading into jail for the rest of his days (which I know that probably won't happen, but a girl can dream).

 

[Patrick Jane]

AK and Lambropoulos are all over media today letting us know that B is lying again, as his murder of C was clearly premeditated.

Lambropoulos and his teams at To Vima and Ta Nea newspapers should win an award for investigative journalism, as they have been doing such excellent reporting. Meanwhile the rest of Greek MSM were asleep at the wheel.

 

[Domvs]

Hello everyone, firstly, thank you for all the careful information reporting. I’ve been reading for weeks after “knowing” sadly, it would be Babis. I’m an artist making art by responding to and highlighting domestic violence and Femicide at the moment and wanted to share a (real) psychologists explanation for these dreadful crimes. It is felt that
the psychology behind Femicide is that the particular man is overly reliant on the woman who usually has a stable, strong, independent personality. Because of the man’s psychological dependance (as narcissists they need a “supply’ to “survive” they base their self-worth on the relationship and need to control their ‘source’. When control is resisted, they then kill, from a position of weakness and fear. Not strength. Caroline was his strength. So tragic

 

[Lola68]

I totally appreciate C's immediate family must be blindsided by grief and are probably not aware of the press coverage of the case, but I find it very hard to believe that no one who knew C didn't at least express some unease about the fact that there were a number of things that didn't add up about B's story and behaviour, especially as it was all over Greek news.

I also disagree that MSM were idiots that "bought the story". Tabloids succeed because they're managed by smart, educated, manipulative individuals who exist to sell "news". Every article I've read about the case - in the Greek press at least - contained both "the facts as we know it" (i.e. 3 perps etc) and the "unanswered questions". MSM rehashed the story to keep people buying their papers, but journalists are inquisitive by nature - even if they subsequently become jaded they're still motivated by a scoop!

There could have been a press embargo on certain facts in the case (e.g. the friend C apparently texted to say that she was leaving B; that she tried to book into a hotel that night, etc); and/or LE weren't forthcoming with the information.



JIMO

 

[Angleterre]

Your insightful response is much appreciated!

You’re very welcome
Sometimes I have concerns that I may be giving information overload and because of the nature of my input here on WS’s, my input can be pretty depressing so please, if any of my fellow WS’ers do have any opinions about this or suggestions about my content and input, by all means let me know because I cannot improve if I don’t know what I need to improve. I’m very receptive to feedback and all I ask is that you comment on a private message or conversation. Thankyou kindly for your comments.

 

[Tortoise]

You’re very welcome
Sometimes I have concerns that I may be giving information overload and because of the nature of my input here on WS’s, my input can be pretty depressing so please, if any of my fellow WS’ers do have any opinions about this or suggestions about my content and input, by all means let me know because I cannot improve if I don’t know what I need to improve. I’m very receptive to feedback and all I ask is that you comment on a private message or conversation. Thankyou kindly for your comments.

I don't find your content depressing Angleterre. I think we are the perfect audience for it. Or should that be readership.. Not your average customer let's say, thriving on the nitty gritty of crime, justice and criminal behaviour.

 

[Patrick Jane]

I totally appreciate C's immediate family must be blindsided by grief and are probably not aware of the press coverage of the case, but I find it very hard to believe that no one who knew C didn't at least express some unease about the fact that there were a number of things that didn't add up about B's story and behaviour, especially as it was all over Greek news.

I also disagree that MSM were idiots that "bought the story". Tabloids succeed because they're managed by smart, educated, manipulative individuals who exist to sell "news". Every article I've read about the case - in the Greek press at least - contained both "the facts as we know it" (i.e. 3 perps etc) and the "unanswered questions". MSM rehashed the story to keep people buying their papers, but journalists are inquisitive by nature - even if they subsequently become jaded they're still motivated by a scoop!

There could have been a press embargo on certain facts in the case (e.g. the friend C apparently texted to say that she was leaving B; that she tried to book into a hotel that night, etc); and/or LE weren't forthcoming with the information.



JIMO

Most of Greek MSM are certainly sensationalist and tabloid. But my argument is that they should be held to a higher standard than merely a realization that they're a business, and that they're in it to sell papers and get clicks. Journalists should be truthful with the public. The "facts" should be framed in their proper context. If the only basis for belief that a robbery occurred is B's word, then the public should be told that. How many articles have been posted in these threads which were a mash-up of statements from LE and statements from B? Who said what? Where was the journalistic due diligence to assign some order to the story, so we could separate out who said what? And it wasn't just negligence in the print media, I posted numerous videos here where newspersons, journalists, and reporters accepted B's narrative with zero skepticism. It wasn't "facts as we know it". It was "these are the facts." And that's the whole problem. They weren't facts at all. They were lies.

 

[MsBetsy]

«Σκέφτομαι να φύγω. Δεν ξερω αν μπορώ να συνεχίσω με τον Μπάμπη»: Δείτε τι έγραφε η Καρολάιν στο ημερολόγιό της
According to Caroline's diary, they were fighting and she had thought about leaving him even before getting pregnant with Lydia (but upon learning that she was pregnant, she changed her mind, because she wanted her daughter to grow up with both parents).She had even found a house in Chalandri that she considered ideal. States that she had also physically attacked him in the past. On New Years Eve 2019 she admits "I don't know if I can continue being with B. I love him so much that I can't leave him, even though this relationship is hurting me."

I'm not surprised she beat him. Prolonged emotional abuse can lead to anxiety, stress, depression, and a lot of pent up anger. I've always questioned B's claim that she had postpartum depression. I think their marital problems were the bigger issue. Imo

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if he made any fraudulent claims on insurance for the "stolen" goods.

 

[MsBetsy]

Most of Greek MSM are certainly sensationalist and tabloid. But my argument is that they should be held to a higher standard than merely a realization that they're a business, and that they're in it to sell papers and get clicks. Journalists should be truthful with the public. The "facts" should be framed in their proper context. If the only basis for belief that a robbery occurred is B's word, then the public should be told that. How many articles have been posted in these threads which were a mash-up of statements from LE and statements from B? Who said what? Where was the journalistic due diligence to assign some order to the story, so we could separate out who said what? And it wasn't just negligence in the print media, I posted numerous videos here where newspersons, journalists, and reporters accepted B's narrative with zero skepticism. It wasn't "facts as we know it". It was "these are the facts." And that's the whole problem. They weren't facts at all. They were lies.

It's no different in the US. Media reporting has become more about sensationalism, and less about fact checking. Sometimes you have to stick to the MSM that has a reputation of being consistently reliable. Some articles are more like opinion pieces rather than news reporting. Imo