Gun Control Debate #2

[kaen]

It is good to hear that leaders are leading. While this might not be as far as I want, I am happy that the national conversation is one that is having an impact.

"I understand I'm going to get a lot of people mad at me, but I'm going to do what I think is right," Katko told syracuse.com when asked about openly breaking with long-held NRA positions.

"None of this is designed to take away anybody's constitutional rights," Katko said. "I'm a major-league Second Amendment rights guy, but I think we have to take a look at these things. We can get creative here."

Katko said he has already decided to support two other initiatives: A federal ban on bump stocks, devices that enable a semiautomatic rifle to fire faster; and a bill in Congress aimed at strengthening the National Instant Background Check System, or NICS."



http://www.syracuse.com/politics/in...nding_background_chec.html#incart_river_index

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Thank you, Kaen, you make some excellent points. It does feel cruel, and that's a good way to say it. You found the word for me.

I am an educator in a very low income area. I can say that most of the parents I interface with are not their kid's BFFs, are as involved as they can be with their kid's education, and require that second income. Many of my families work very hard to give their kids the best they can. In short, the overgeneralizing of the American family is just not what I see.

To boot, I am an older parent. When my youngest is 18, I will be the age that Lynda Cruz was when she passed. Some of my children have educational and attentional issues. It is hard work to reign them in and do what I can to influence and be a guide (read provide positive supports and punishments when necessary) for them. It is not easy. The world of some of my children is complicated. Medical supports and mental health supports are paid by me out of pocket as no insurance covers what I and medical professionals determined what my kid's need. Currently, I pay almost 1,500 in non-reimbursed/non-insurance covered medical bills each month.

The judgment of older parents and parents of under 25s in general is just not necessary and feels cruel. There are millions of kids out there who never harm another soul and are from older parent and younger parent families. The "culture" conversation, as far as I know, doesn't have longitudinal studies so we can not ask for links but I would ask that anyone saying these things about parents and parenting provide studies (quantitative or qualitative) to say that broad swaths of parents are not doing what they can and need to do in order to raise socially and financially responsible future voting citizens of this country. Some of the access and societal factors that children in this country have is the same as children in other developed countries but the one difference in child violence tends to be access to guns.

Focusing on giving parents more support would always be welcome but painting us all with a broad brush is not only unfair but neglects addressing the issues that can support families. The "culture" conversation just takes away from the balance of needed gun control and needed access to mental health care by downplaying the need for anything besides "more of mom's time or more of family time." I wish it were just that easy. If it were, you can bet that most families would have solved it by now.

 

[Blef]

It's interesting to see how these companies are cutting their ties with the NRA. They must be feeling an awful lot of pressure from their customers to be doing it.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

How do make these people give up their guns?

SBM

The only for sure way to do it is to repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all of the guns. JMO.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Parkland school shooting seen as turning point for gun control debate

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...n-turning-point-gun-control-debate/367792002/

Rep. Jose Oliva, R-Miami, said the Legislature’s production of a flurry of gun reform bills Friday was due to the “tremendous civic outpouring of these children themselves.”

“For any of us to say that a call to action did not come from the direct participation of those victims, being able to sit with them and hear them, would certainly not be honest,” Oliva said.

It’s something that the deaths of 47 Pulse nightclub patrons couldn’t get the Legislature to act on in 2016, even though the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence urged Gov. Scott and the Legislature to take up a special session to ban assault weapons.

 

[Blef]

Interesting opinion piece on whether some mass shootings in the US would have occurred in Canada based on the laws here

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/crim...orst-mass-shooters/ar-BBJdg8m?ocid=spartanntp

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Agreed. And it's interesting how they're utilizing their official/verified social media to announce it. I haven't seen or heard any blowback yet about all these announcements, which is interesting to me, too.

It's interesting to see how these companies are cutting their ties with the NRA. They must be feeling an awful lot of pressure from their customers to be doing it.

[FONT=&amp]

MetLife‏Verified account @MetLife

@MetLife​

We value all our customers but have decided to end our discount program with the NRA.​

[/FONT]

https://twitter.com/MetLife/status/967092823345516545

 

[kaen]

SBM

The only for sure way to do it is to repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all of the guns. JMO.

I am not sure why anyone would want to confiscate all guns. I am for making it illegal to have a semi-automatic rifle. Australia did it through buybacks. I am also for holding people liable if they decide to hold onto a semi-automatic rifle (after a ban) and their semi-automatic is used in the commission of a crime (by liable I mean, jail time and fine).

 

[kaen]

Do homeowners with guns pay higher premium rates on their homeowners insurance? I don't know. I thought I would ask here before I ask my insurance agent.




Found my answer: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...ch-you-pay-for-homeowners-insurance/index.htm

Rust seemed reluctant to insert himself or the industry in the gun-violence debate. He acknowledged that "compliance and safety" had to be part of people's thinking about guns. But, he said, while there was a need for a "healthy debate" on the subject, insurers weren't geared up to police policyholders on whether they're taking proper gun-safety measures in the home. "It's like seat belt laws," he said. "Wearing a seat belt can mitigate injuries. But we can't pull everyone over to make sure they're wearing a belt."

 

[Jax49]

Do homeowners with guns pay higher premium rates on their homeowners insurance? I don't know. I thought I would ask here before I ask my insurance agent.

It wasn't one of the questions asked by my insurance company, so I'd say NO.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

rbbm

When he says it that way, it's really hard for me to argue against its importance.

Do homeowners with guns pay higher premium rates on their homeowners insurance? I don't know. I thought I would ask here before I ask my insurance agent.

Found my answer: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...ch-you-pay-for-homeowners-insurance/index.htm

Rust seemed reluctant to insert himself or the industry in the gun-violence debate. He acknowledged that "compliance and safety" had to be part of people's thinking about guns. But, he said, while there was a need for a "healthy debate" on the subject, insurers weren't geared up to police policyholders on whether they're taking proper gun-safety measures in the home. "It's like seat belt laws," he said. "Wearing a seat belt can mitigate injuries. But we can't pull everyone over to make sure they're wearing a belt."

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I am not sure why anyone would want to confiscate all guns. I am for making it illegal to have a semi-automatic rifle. Australia did it through buybacks. I am also for holding people liable if they decide to hold onto a semi-automatic rifle (after a ban) and their semi-automatic is used in the commission of a crime (by liable I mean, jail time and fine).

So only gun violence from semi auto rifles needs to be addressed?

 

[rsd1200]

Here is a link but it is from 2013. I totally agree wuth the desensitization. The ratings are different and the ratings are for movie theaters.

I think since 2013 a lot if not most kids watch stuff on the internet. Where I live there is not a movie theatre but everyone somehow sees the latest films.

The rating system may be different but kids all over the world are watching these movies. And the most violent I have seen are Asian.
http://deadline.com/2013/11/gun-violence-in-movies-a-view-from-abroad-632569/

I asked Romer his conclusions about why actual gun violence is less prevalent in Europe, even though we see the same movies as our Americans counterparts. He acknowledged that was a “counter-example” that’s often brought up since the same effects don’t seem apparent in other countries where Hollywood films are widely consumed. “We have a huge number of guns in America that are stored in homes where kids can get access to them,” he said. In Europe and elsewhere, Romer surmises, “It’s less of a problem because there is not as much access to firearms.”

One other big difference here is that in some parts of Europe, movies are given harder ratings for violence. In the U.S., the MPAA ratings board seems to be more concerned with the depiction of nudity and sex. In the UK, the classifications board rated The Dark Knight a 12A, which brought an outcry that the knife violence was too graphic, a reaction that came after a spate of stabbings on the streets. When the UK gave Nicolas Winding Refn’s ultra-violent Only God Forgives an 18 rating (the equivalent of an NC-17), France gave it a -12 rating, which means it was deemed appropriate for any teenager. It did hold a special warning that it included “scenes that could shock a young audience.” France gave Django Unchained the same rating, while the UK gave Quentin Tarantino’s violent slave saga an 18. Filmmakers are given a chance to trim for a desired rating. It wasn’t until The Hunger Games lost seven seconds of violence that it was given a 15 certificate.

No access to firearms, and less violence,( PG13 now has more violence than R rated movies), in media, consumed by young people. I was not a helicopter mom, but I did not permit violent video games, movies, or music, (if they snuck by me they were file 13'd when I found them). Also, as I've said before, no computers in the bedrooms, and the computer had Nanny Software that limited time, and scanned for keywords going out, and coming in (too many pervs out there). We had family vacations but my kids weren't my bffs, they had what they needed , but not everything they wanted. I am not a perfect parent who raised perfect children, by means, and I was most definitely not a perfect teen or young adult, as the song goes, I was, The Only Hell My Momma Ever Raised. However, none of us shot up a school, and we had firearms in our homes.

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[EuTuCroquet?]

OMG, on so many levels.

I don't know what else to say, other than this is nauseating and graphic and preventable.

This is so horrifying. These guns make surviving an attack with this weapon so much lower. On this basis alone, these weapons should not be available to people.

"The AR-15, the semiautomatic rifle used at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history, uses bullets that can cause softball-sized exit wounds, leaving behind a significantly larger trail of mangled tissue compared to handgun bullets.

For trauma surgeons, the injuries are harder to repair. For victims, the chances of survival are lower.

“We’re surgeons, we’re not gods,” said Dr. Nicholas Namias, the director of Ryder Trauma Center at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, which treats about 400 serious gunshot injuries every year. “If you have an injury from a bullet going through an artery at a low velocity, you repair it and go on your way. If you have a high velocity bullet, now you have a huge cavity. Imagine a cavity the size of your fist where everything that should have been there no longer is. How do you fix that?”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201949054.html#storylink=cpy

 

[rsd1200]

Don’t I wish! Testing is BIG BUSINESS. Textbooks are controlled for what can be taught. Texas is a big purchaser of textbooks so they have a lot of control as to what is taught.

Yes, phy ed and recess should be increased tremendously.

Parents should get out of kid’s sports.

There are no longer many empty spaces for kids to play in like when I was growing up.

Living on one income is next to impossible. Minimum wage does not get an apartment anywhere in the US. If one has a college degree, the student loans are tremendous especlaly when a couple has both gone to college.

A college degree now in many places is like a high school degree. A Master’s is now required. I know in Minnesota the two year RN degree is being phased out.

An ordinary car costs $20,000. Buying used is good if you know the previous owner. Otherwise, often you inherit huge maintenance costs and repair costs.

Parents now look at the teacher as the one at fault if Johnny is not learning. Well to do schools are very aware of litigation so things are handled with kid gloves.

Private schools have serious issues with funding and keeping those that fund happy.

Parents become very pushy because they want their kids to be stand outs in sports or in academics.

So many issues.

And because teaching is under attack, a huge percentage of teachers oewve the profession in the first five years.

My sil was going to go into teaching. In our state, education seems to be less of a priority, each year. He decided to just forget it and go into engineering. Its a shame too. He's so patient, and good with children.

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[EuTuCroquet?]

Why the AR-15 Was Never Meant to be in Civilians' Hands

https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2...-never-meant-to-be-in-civilians-hands/545438/

rbbm

Decades ago I wrote in the Atlantic about the creation of the AR-15, which was the predecessor of the military’s M-16 combat rifle and which now is the weapon most often used in U.S. mass gun murders. After the latest large-scale gun massacre, the one in Texas, I did a follow-up post about the AR-15, and then a range of reader views.

Among the responses I got was from a man who as a young engineer in the Vietnam era had worked, at Colt Firearms, on the M-16. He writes to explain why he is shocked, as he says the AR-15’s famed designer Eugene Stoner would have been, to see this weapon anyplace other than the battlefield.

“I do not believe that there is any place in the civilian world for a family of weapons that were born as an assault rifle,” he writes.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Ugh, I hate hearing that, rsd. I think the best teachers are the ones gifted with patience and thoughtfulness — generosity of spirit.

My sil was going to go into teaching. In our state, education seems to be less of a priority, each year. He decided to just forget it and go into engineering. Its a shame too. He's so patient, and good with children.

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[rsd1200]

While we are on the topic of movies and gun violence - am I am going by three year's worth of research on Mr. America here:

(NSFW)

History of Sex in Cinema

..................................

Hays Code 1930

How and why it came into being.

......................................

Gunslinging in the early westerns

Did you know the vast majority of early Hollywood films involving gunslinging were targeted to American youth/family crowd?

William Hart, Tom Mix, Buck Jones, Bob Steele, Hoot Gibson, Harry Carey Sr, Tom Tyler are just a handful of names at the top of the list. While racy films were often deemed as "adults only" audiences, the kids could go to the weekend matinee and enjoy some muscular gunslinging action in movies like "Wild to Go":

So naturally little Timmy, who would never be able to get into a theatre where "Diary of a Lost Girl" would be shown, he would go with his pals to see "Gun Law":

Note: Popular child actor Frankie Darro was often paired with Tom Tyler as his co-star, thus making these movies even more appealing to children. If Frankie could idolize Tom, why not millions of other American children?

Again, guns were still a major part of American culture and there were no school shootings every other week between 1925 and the 1940's.

It wasnt round the clock though. I dont even watch the news with the grandkids in the room. We didnt have the video games they have now either.

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[EuTuCroquet?]

I wonder how many teachers (current, former, studying) are participating in this thread.

How do these events affect themselves and students, although they're not victims of "the" shooting? How has this changed classroom culture?

What are your "top" suggestion to improve safety, and if it includes guns, then how?

Have any here lost students or a teacher to school gun violence?

:heartbeat:

 

[rsd1200]

For special needs? PL94-142 is a Federal law.

It took me 11 years to get my child an IEP. They expelled him weeks after his grades were improving for the first time in his life. Why? Horseplay during drama club. He'd done far worse in the prior 11 1/2 years. Granted this was a number of years ago, my wayward one is nearing 30.

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