Gun Control Debate #4

[human]

I am upset about the discussion of guns and suicide. The gun is cast aside as no biggie because people will find a way.

The gun is the final solution. Apparently people who want to commit suicde are not worth thinking about because they are going to kill themselves no matter what.

I find that appalling.

 

[rsd1200]

I like that idea! Something needs to be done about the ridiculous BS that the NRA spouts.

Maybe people coming to their senses will make it so we don’t have to get so desperat, though.. Maybe the NRA will become as socially unacceptable as smoking is.

I kinda like my 1st amendment right. Think of all the positive things that we'd lose.

I'm for keeping my rights: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[rsd1200]

I am not sure what the big rush to ban bump stocks is about. To my knowledge, they were only used in one mass shooting. Why have there been no other bans on weapons used in other mass shootings, none of which used bump stocks? Seems piecemeal to me. A distraction from the main problem.

It's one of the feel good things. Toss'em a bone.

 

[Jennifer17]

When it was submitted, it was not considered to be a mechanical change to the firearm. It's just a plastic part that fits on the stock. No one even knew much about them til after Vegas. I'd never even heard of them and I live in Guntucky.

But Stephen Paddock showed the world how they could be used to kill more people, and I think that you have said after LV lots of people wanted them. Why would people want to buy them?

 

[human]

I kinda like my 1st amendment right. Think of all the positive things that we'd lose.

I'm for keeping my rights: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Even when there was the right to own slaves or no right for women to vote?

 

[human]

But Stephen Paddock showed the world how they could be used to kill more people, and I think that you have said after LV lots of people wanted them. Why would people want to buy them?

I love the viewpoints of people from other countries. You cut straight thrugh the bs because you do not have to have a rose colored look at the US.

 

[rsd1200]

But Stephen Paddock showed the world how they could be used to kill more people, and I think that you have said after LV lots of people wanted them. Why would people want to buy them?

That is why the DOJ and ATF are looking at re-working the rules someway, but Idk how they'll do that, but I'm sure it can be done.

My dealer said he'd had one on the shelf for years. They aren't good for long term use and he didn't recommend them. Part of the reason that I think that folks bought them was to mess with them on their own property. It simulates, to some degree, a machine gun. I say, if you want to mess with a machine gun, either join the armed forces, or, go to a machine gun shoot and pay a few bucks to fire one.

This is another thing that I think should be banned. The drop in triggers that actually have switches from safety, to semi, to almost auto.

The large majority of gun owners are like my spouse and me, we enjoy target shooting, like different types of firearms, grew up around them, and don't want to hurt anyone unless they are an imminent threat. I still don't want to hurt anyone. I hope when they hear that firearm , they will leave. There is no way that LE could get here in time to help us. If food gets much higher I may take up deer hunting. Seriously.

Tac Con 3MR Trigger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQtCTUq4Y_I

 

[Jennifer17]

Surprisingly, other countries have freedom of speech and constitutions. They just have better written ones which are not so vague that they can be taken to court to make a judgement to sway it to the politics of the day.

 

[rsd1200]

Even when there was the right to own slaves or no right for women to vote?

On March 3, 1913, 105 years ago, women used their 1st amendment right to exercise freedom of speech and of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

My grandmother was 20, when women got the vote, in 1920. She never missed voting. It's why I always vote (even in this past election).

[FONT=&amp]On this day 103 years ago, thousands of women gathered in Washington, D.C. to call for a constitutional amendment guaranteeing women the right to vote. While women had been fighting hard for suffrage for over 60 years, this marked the first major national event for the movement.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]The huge parade, which was spearheaded by Alice Paul and the National American Woman Suffrage Association, was held on March 3, 1913. Riding atop a white horse, lawyer and activist Inez Milholland led over five thousand suffragettes up Pennsylvania Avenue, along with over 20 parade floats, nine bands, and four mounted brigades.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/03/03/this-day-history-1913-womens-suffrage-parade
[/FONT]

 

[rsd1200]

Surprisingly, other countries have freedom of speech and constitutions. They just have better written ones which are not so vague that they can be taken to court to make a judgement to sway it to the politics of the day.

Surprisingly, I love my country. I've not heard of another country that doesn't have some warts of their own, so, I'll take mine over any others.

 

[rsd1200]

I love the viewpoints of people from other countries. You cut straight thrugh the bs because you do not have to have a rose colored look at the US.

I don't have a rose colored view of the U.S. nor do I have one of any other countries. I can love my country and want to make changes, but I'm not going to slam my home. I don't slam other folk's countries.

 

[human]

Surprisingly, I love my country. I've not heard of another country that doesn't have some warts of their own, so, I'll take mine over any others.

Which others have you lived in?

 

[human]

http://time.com/4371452/orlando-shooting-ar-15-military-civilian-family/

ur father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News. “He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events.”

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Alabama student, 17, 'accidentally kills female classmate after trying to show off his gun - and critically injures himself trying to put weapon back in his waistband'

• Shots were fired during dismissal at Huffman High School in Birmingham
• The 17-year-old girl, identified as Courtlin Arrington, died on way to the hospital
• A male student and a school employee were also injured during the incident

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-woman-killed-accidental-school-shooting.html

 

[PrairieWind]

At least without a gun they are unlikely to do it by committing murder-suicide.

That’s probably true. Good point.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

Story time

Libertyland​

Once upon a time there was a country called Libertyland. It was a comparatively young country, and its founding fathers had written its constitution with the aim of protecting its citizens against the oppression of its rulers. Several amendments were added, one of which guaranteeing its citizens the right to own means of transport.


This made a lot of sense: with a horse you could go farther than walking, and with a carriage you could transport goods and people. You could work more efficiently on your farm, you could visit your family, you could decide to leave and seek fortune elsewhere – you were free.


Time passed, and motor vehicles arrived. Bigger and faster means of transport! Wonderful! The bigger the better! In some parts of Libertyland the norm was to own several enormous means of transport. There were shops and fairs everywhere where you could buy as many means of transport as you could afford.


However, some of these new means of transport proved to be dangerous. There were no regulations, you see, because you could not regulate the constitutional liberty of owning means of transport, and it meant everyone could buy and drive these means of transport. So not only there were a lot of accidents, but also people with a grief against society would suddenly decide to drive their mean of transport into crowds, killing dozens of people.Slowly, these mass slaughters became more and more frequent.


The rest of the world stood and stared in disbelief.


Even some Libertylanders protested,arguing that the founding fathers never meant this, and that in other countries people had means of transport too, but mass homicides were the exception and not a regular occurence. The only difference between Libertyland and these countries was that these countries had a few regulations: you could freely own basic means of transport suchas bicycles; means of transport such as mopeds had to be registeredand insured; and bigger means of transport necessitated not only registration and insurance but you also had to pass an exam to make sure you were able to drive them. Armored means of transport whose only purpose was to kill as many people as fastly as possible were illegal.


Of course, those loonies were dismissed and ridiculed because seriously are you a red-blooded Libertylander or a crisis actor and a beta male and you snowflake crawl back to your safe space.


Thankfully the powerful and oh-so-rich (because of all the money donated by the means of transport industry) National Mean of Transport Association found the solution: everyone, without exception, had to have several bigger and sturdier means oftransport, because only a good guy with a bigger mean of transport could block a bad guy with a mean of transport and then everybody would live happily ever after.


The End :happydance:

 

[rsd1200]

Which others have you lived in?

Did I say I'd lived in any I other? I said I'd not heard of any any others without warts of their own. I've traveled all over this beautiful country of mine and met some of the most amazing people along the way. From east to west and north to south. My home state is my favorite though, but, I don't go to other folk's states and denigrate their home state. It's their home, this is my home.

 

[Bernina]

BBM. That doesn't seem like much to me. How long would it take for the court to decide that.

In Arizona (Title 36), a person who is considered a "threat to themselves and/or others" is put on a "involuntary" 72 hour hold in a psychiatric facility. During that time they are evaluated by 3 psychiatrists. If the psychiatrists deem the above, the individual (with counsel) is brought before a judge where he/she decides etc., etc........

The 1st time my ex husband slit his wrists at the dinning room table, then walked out on the road to throw himself in front of a semi, he was involuntarily "titled out". He is a "frequent flyer" and usually ends up in the hospital at least once a year.

He legally became a prohibited possessor after his 1st hospitalization. That was 28 years ago.......

Like it has been stated by many links and posters, mentally ill people are more inclined to kill themselves than others.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Mass Shootings Are the Systemic Crisis Of Our Time
Gun violence is more frequent and far deadlier than the riots of the 1960s. So why aren’t we treating it with the same seriousness?

We think of urban rebellions as a defining crisis of 1960s America. Today, it is mass shootings, which are far more common than riots ever were back then—and far deadlier. In the wave of riots from 1964 through 1971, 228 people were killed across more than 750 different disturbances. So far, in 2017 alone, there have been 273 mass shootings in which at least four people—not including the shooter—have been shot.

Why, then, is it taking us so long to see mass shootings as a systemic crisis, as we did 50 years ago when one city after another exploded into violence?

So why is there no Kerner Report for mass shootings?

Mass shootings are more common and more deadly than the rebellions of the 1960s. No one is spared—not children, not high schoolers, not college students, not churchgoers, not health care workers, not military officers and not members of Congress. Yet many are reluctant to recognize a pattern for what it is.

A well-funded independent federal commission could be tasked with piecing together how and why mass shootings plague our country. It would need to dig deep into a number of thorny issues—gun policy, health care, the criminal justice system, the tenuous balance between security measures and civil liberties. It would not erase the good work other organizations have been doing for years to chronicle and diagnose our plague of mass shootings, but incorporate it. To be most effective, the commission would need to be transparent, releasing not only a report, but also the data, transcripts and all other material that emerged in its investigation. Like the Kerner Report, it could be written and distributed in a way that invites citizens to engage with the material directly through community groups, libraries, popular culture and other venues.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...violence-systemic-crisis-kerner-report-215675
---

The key to change will create movement and understanding when a bipartisan effort can come together. IMO.

Bbm: Leaders could take a queue from history.

 

[Blef]

Did I say I'd lived in any I other? I said I'd not heard of any any others without warts of their own. I've traveled all over this beautiful country of mine and met some of the most amazing people along the way. From east to west and north to south. My home state is my favorite though, but, I don't go to other folk's states and denigrate their home state. It's their home, this is my home.

Obviously you know I'm a Brit, living in Canada. I've also visited the US a number of times. The people there are amazing, you are so proud of your country, you have the most amazing hospitality, I love the people that I met in the US. However I've never been as scared to walk around as I was in the US. The knowledge that anyone at any time could have a gun, concealed on them, and could use it terrified me. I certainly looked at people differently as I didn't know if a gun was going to be pulled at any moment in time. The advice we got when I went to Florida was to avoid walking at night, especially through parking lots, as there had been so many armed robberies of tourists. I felt like that was so weird. To be scared to walk down a street is something I hadn't experienced. I'm not saying by any means that the UK is completely safe. Of course we have violent crime. But a gun has such a finality around it. Knife crime is a problem in the UK and the police run weapons amnesties to collect in knives and other weapons, and they work. Of course there are still people who will carry a knife in the UK but just about every police force report positive results when they run the knife amnesties.

Don't think I'm knocking the US. As I said, it is full of amazing, brilliant people who have no intention of ever hurting anyone. However the prospect of a gun being pulled out in public by just about anyone is scary, when you have experience of societies where it is almost unheard of.